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Author Topic: gods and astrology  (Read 1459 times)

arete

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gods and astrology
« on: January 31, 2020, 04:03:36 pm »
In Egyptian Astrology, humans are associated with the Egyptian Gods, depending when we are born. What a great outlook on astrology, combining religion and the stars! Gods aren't apathetic towards us, they actively shape our character. They really ''live'' in us.

Also, all pagan religions are associated with astrology (the Egyptian one being more straightforward about Gods), before Christianity ban astrology as devil worshiping.

Pagans usually try to find a connection to some deity, so that deity becomes their patron/matron. One of the paths to find that deity is through Astrology, in my humble opinion.

Gods are deist. They mold and shape us and the stars reveal the Gods' connection with us. And then they set as free, when we cut the umbilical cord, so that we can make our choices.

Do you associate religion with astrology?

I pray that religious animosity will end.

Anon100

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 04:21:13 pm »

Do you associate religion with astrology?

No, but I do think that things are interconnected so that the pull of the sun, view of the moon or light from some far distant solar system could have some small seeming but significant effect on our lives and these can be caused by deities ( like the ol' saying of how a butterfly flapping its wings can create a tornado the other side of the world).
I just find it hard to accept that a general template based on the date of birth can work. It's like charting a wave moving to shore but not taking into account any obstacles in its way or the fact that people build breakwater or the shore changing shape.

arete

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 04:28:09 pm »
No, but I do think that things are interconnected so that the pull of the sun, view of the moon or light from some far distant solar system could have some small seeming but significant effect on our lives and these can be caused by deities ( like the ol' saying of how a butterfly flapping its wings can create a tornado the other side of the world).
I just find it hard to accept that a general template based on the date of birth can work. It's like charting a wave moving to shore but not taking into account any obstacles in its way or the fact that people build breakwater or the shore changing shape.
In Astrology, we can predict the breakwater too! The chart progresses and returns. ;)
Do you think, a pagan can find a patron/matron god via astrology?
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Anon100

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 04:37:15 pm »
In Astrology, we can predict the breakwater too! The chart progresses and returns. ;)
Do you think, a pagan can find a patron/matron god via astrology?

Hmm, sounds like there's a lot more to it than I knew :)

Yes. Or rather, I think a god could use it to nudge someone to them

Sefiru

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 06:05:23 pm »
In Egyptian Astrology, humans are associated with the Egyptian Gods, depending when we are born.

From what I've seen, the Egyptian-derived practices that do this are in the Hermetic tradition, and are heavily influenced by Greek tradition. If there's a system that was used in Ancient Egypt itself, I'd be curious to hear about it.

Quote
Also, all pagan religions are associated with astrology (the Egyptian one being more straightforward about Gods), before Christianity ban astrology as devil worshiping.

1. Citation needed on the 'all'. Generalisation rarely ends well.

2. Which kind of astrology? Greek, Chinese, Mayan ... all completely different. I'm sure there are others as well. I'm not sure, though, that the Northern European religions (Norse, Celtic et al) had such a system?

3. Was astrology ever formally banned by the Church? I mean, I know it's not part of Christianity per se, but historically many philosophers/early scientists were both astrologers and Christians (I get the impression that the more intellectual forms of occultism got more of a pass than the folk-magicy stuff).

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Do you associate religion with astrology?

Nope. To me, there are some stars with mythological meaning and others that mark calendar events, but actual astrology, not so much.

arete

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 07:54:29 pm »
From what I've seen, the Egyptian-derived practices that do this are in the Hermetic tradition, and are heavily influenced by Greek tradition. If there's a system that was used in Ancient Egypt itself, I'd be curious to hear about it.
What do you mean ''itself''? The civilizations had communication, they shared knowledge.

Quote
1. Citation needed on the 'all'. Generalisation rarely ends well.

2. Which kind of astrology? Greek, Chinese, Mayan ... all completely different. I'm sure there are others as well. I'm not sure, though, that the Northern European religions (Norse, Celtic et al) had such a system?
Ancient priests were also astrologers. Even all the temples were built according to the stars and planets, moon, sun, north, east, etc. They all had calendars. And what do you mean ''completely different''? The Earth and Sky is one.

Quote
3. Was astrology ever formally banned by the Church? I mean, I know it's not part of Christianity per se, but historically many philosophers/early scientists were both astrologers and Christians (I get the impression that the more intellectual forms of occultism got more of a pass than the folk-magicy stuff).
The Orthodox Church is against astrology. And the Catholics burnt witches. How astrology survived is a mystery.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Caleb Oak

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 11:46:34 am »
What do you mean ''itself''? The civilizations had communication, they shared knowledge.
Ancient priests were also astrologers. Even all the temples were built according to the stars and planets, moon, sun, north, east, etc. They all had calendars. And what do you mean ''completely different''? The Earth and Sky is one.
The Orthodox Church is against astrology. And the Catholics burnt witches. How astrology survived is a mystery.
Just saying, but the witch burning inspired by Kramers book, (hammer of witches/maelues maleficarum) as well as the plague and the small ice age where never officially condoned by the RCC, and many opposed this horrible practice.

Plus I fail to see the connection.  :)

Sefiru

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 06:45:12 pm »
What do you mean ''itself''? The civilizations had communication, they shared knowledge.

That's "Ancient Egypt itself" as in, the practices Ancient Egypt specifically, rather than later practices derived from Ancient Egypt combined with other influences.

Quote
Ancient priests were also astrologers.

Seriously, this is much too broad a statement

Quote
Even all the temples were built according to the stars and planets, moon, sun, north, east, etc.

This is where the difference between 'astronomy' and 'astrology' is important. Understanding the movements of stars and planets, and using them for practical things like keeping time and finding directions, is one thing; giving a spiritual meaning to the stars is another.

Quote
They all had calendars.

They all also ate food and wore clothes and spoke a language.

Quote
And what do you mean ''completely different''? The Earth and Sky is one.

Greek astrology: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo,Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces. (signs represent months)
Chinese astrology: Rat, Ox, Tiger, Rabbit, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Sheep, Monkey, Rooster, Dog, Pig (signs represent years)
Mayan calendar: a 20-day cycle and an 18-day cycle

And even though the stars themselves are the same everywhere, different cultures group them into different constellations.

And even when several cultures agree on what stars go together, there can be a hge variety in what image they are supposed to represent: just check out the Big Dipper.

arete

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2020, 08:58:08 am »
That's "Ancient Egypt itself" as in, the practices Ancient Egypt specifically, rather than later practices derived from Ancient Egypt combined with other influences.

Seriously, this is much too broad a statement

This is where the difference between 'astronomy' and 'astrology' is important. Understanding the movements of stars and planets, and using them for practical things like keeping time and finding directions, is one thing; giving a spiritual meaning to the stars is another.

They all also ate food and wore clothes and spoke a language.

Greek astrology: Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo,Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces. (signs represent months)
Chinese astrology: Rat, Ox, Tiger, Rabbit, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Sheep, Monkey, Rooster, Dog, Pig (signs represent years)
Mayan calendar: a 20-day cycle and an 18-day cycle

And even though the stars themselves are the same everywhere, different cultures group them into different constellations.

And even when several cultures agree on what stars go together, there can be a hge variety in what image they are supposed to represent: just check out the Big Dipper.
I disagree, but I'm too lazy to debate.  :P :-\ :)
I pray that religious animosity will end.

SunflowerP

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2020, 12:42:53 am »
I disagree....

You're entitled to your own opinion; you're not entitled to your own facts.

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arete

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2020, 03:58:39 am »
You're entitled to your own opinion; you're not entitled to your own facts.

Sunflower
I couldn't find a better word than ''disagree'' to answer to the post.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Anon100

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2020, 02:03:41 pm »

And even though the stars themselves are the same everywhere, different cultures group them into different constellations.

And even when several cultures agree on what stars go together, there can be a hge variety in what image they are supposed to represent: just check out the Big Dipper.

Slight detour here but I do recall that over time the stars positions as we see them have changed ( https://www.space.com/41908-watch-stars-drift-with-mobile-apps.html ). 
Also there's the point that some stars are northern or southern hemisphere and so only count in astrology for the culture which can see them. I'm not sure if there would be further variance in star positions looking from different points on earth but as they're a 3d model placed in 2d form..

Anon100

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2020, 02:07:11 pm »
Slight detour here

Also, I found this about the astronomical and physical placement of the great pyramid. Thought it may be of interest - https://osr.org/blog/astronomy/pyramids-of-giza-and-orions-belt/
Ps. I'm afraid I'm not sure how accurate it is, half asleep and just realised the site isn't what group I thought it was. Still may be worth checking the info
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 02:10:06 pm by Anon100 »

Sefiru

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2020, 06:36:50 pm »
I disagree, but I'm too lazy to debate.  :P :-\ :)

Where's the fun in that?

Sefiru

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Re: gods and astrology
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2020, 06:48:04 pm »
Ps. I'm afraid I'm not sure how accurate it is, half asleep and just realised the site isn't what group I thought it was. Still may be worth checking the info

Accurate as far as it goes; it was written by/for astronomers, Egyptologists could go on at length about the subject  ;D (pauses to look it up) The 'Sirius=Isis' thing is an oversimplification; at one time, Sirius was the goddess Sopdet who got together with Osiris and gave birth to the planet Venus. She was later syncretised with Isis, as one does.

The Ancient Egyptians were big on Sirius. They even counted their New Year by when Sirius is first visible in the night sky (early to mid August in most places), which happened to match the timing of the Nile flood.

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