Genderfluid deities

[goblin-queen]

I believe that our personality and experiences shape the way we both see deities and interpret myths. I see myself as genderfluid so the dichotomy of male and female energies isn't something i can relate much to. I respect the Lord and Lady, and the necessity of both to bring forth new life. However, the way I see them manifested has changed a lot in the past few weeks.

I think it started with Artemis and Dionysus, I never saw them as fitting into the "conventional" view of gender and sexuality. Since then I've encountered other nature deities but nothing seemed to sit right. Until recently where I felt called to Slavic mythology, I came across a depiction of Devana and it all kinda clicked into place. She was similar in looks to the Gundestrup image of Herne and that's when the realisation hit me.

Rather than a Horned God that manifested in a purely masculine way I now work with a genderfluid nature deity. They're partnered with a multi-faceted Mother deity. I view the rest of the pantheon as totally seperate.

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 
 

[Sefiru]

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 

For me, there's Sokar. Official scholarship (what there is of it) will say that Sokar is male; however, my UPG has always shown him to also have female and hermaphroditic forms. I have found one single mention of a feminine form of his name, Sokaret. There are other, similar pairs of deities in Ancient Egypt, which are usually described as spouses, but I wonder if this is an assumption on the part of modern interpreters.

[Hariti]

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary.

While Shiva and Vishnu are male, they both also have female forms and incarnations, so It's not an alien notion to Hinduism that Gods can change their gender or be multiple genders.

[Morag]

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 

Everything that follows is strictly my UPG.

In my personal...thing, whatchamacallit that I'm building, I have three main gods who represent many different triads, including gender. Specifically one god represents "masculine" energy (for lack of a better term; there's a lot of ineffable woo in my experience of all this so words really cannot do it justice), one represents "feminine", and the third represents non-binary gender -- which includes not only genderfluidity but also the absence of gender.

(They also represent a lot of other "threes" of things -- land, sea, sky; birth, life death; etc.)

Specifically: Manannan represents the masculine to me, Brighid the feminine, and the Morrigan nonbinary-ness. I often see zir as a horned god/dess.

These connections have nothing to do with "traditional" ideas of what masculinity or femininity mean. While Manannan is definitively the source of very male energy in my pantheon, the awesome power of the sea and the storm, he once tried to steal my Mary Janes because, and I quote, "They're pretty!" If he were corporeal I'm 100% sure he'd let me paint his nails and wear the colours with pride.

Brighid often appears to me as a tough-as-nails blacksmith, forging away at her anvil, wearing leather pants and jacket and probably riding a motorcycle. And the Morrigan, well, zie wears fancy ballroom dresses with a sword strapped on overtop, zir skirts soaked in blood and zir face caked with mud and make-up.

As far as sexuality goes, I see Brighid as...hmmm. Lady-loving, definitely. If not lesbian, then homoflexible. I also get the impression from her that pursuing romance or sex is not high on the list of priorities, but it is FUN. Manannan is bisexual, and the Morrigan is...Captain Jack Harkness.


I have UPG about other powers I have experience with, too, but I'm out of time to post tonight, so I'm cutting this short.

[Eastling]

I think it started with Artemis and Dionysus, I never saw them as fitting into the "conventional" view of gender and sexuality.

Makes sense for Dionysos; there's much gender variance and general queerness attested in his myths and rites, which is part of the reason I associate him with Aphrodite in my practice, who also (especially in the early, more Eastern form I worship) has associations as a patron of sexual outlaws and trans/genderqueer people.

I don't know as much about gender variance in Artemis's lore, although I do know that her worship varied greatly across the Hellenic and neighboring world.

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 

In my practice, Mercury presents himself as containing both male and female identities and takes variously-gendered forms; he is the union of the queer-masculine force of Dionysos and the transgressive-feminine force of Aphrodite.

I haven't gotten the whole story together yet, but I believe that the overall shape of it suggests that as he appears in my cosmos, Mercury is essentially the regeneration, after several fragmented generations, of a slain primal bigender Mother-God representing cosmic harmony, truth, beauty, and divine love--their energy having needed to descend all the way from a distant cosmic force through a human being before it could reassemble. I'm not sure if this Power has an attested name at the moment (or if they're cognate to any other Powers), but they're definitely not conventionally-gendered by societal standards.

[Pteranotropi]

I believe that our personality and experiences shape the way we both see deities and interpret myths. I see myself as genderfluid so the dichotomy of male and female energies isn't something i can relate much to. I respect the Lord and Lady, and the necessity of both to bring forth new life. However, the way I see them manifested has changed a lot in the past few weeks.

I think it started with Artemis and Dionysus, I never saw them as fitting into the "conventional" view of gender and sexuality. Since then I've encountered other nature deities but nothing seemed to sit right. Until recently where I felt called to Slavic mythology, I came across a depiction of Devana and it all kinda clicked into place. She was similar in looks to the Gundestrup image of Herne and that's when the realisation hit me.

Rather than a Horned God that manifested in a purely masculine way I now work with a genderfluid nature deity. They're partnered with a multi-faceted Mother deity. I view the rest of the pantheon as totally seperate.

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 

Madagascar's Zanahary is also sometimes depicted as genderless

[goblin-queen]

For me, there's Sokar. Official scholarship (what there is of it) will say that Sokar is male; however, my UPG has always shown him to also have female and hermaphroditic forms.

That's interesting, is there something specific that drew you to view Sokar as female/hermaphroditic?

[goblin-queen]

Makes sense for Dionysos; there's much gender variance and general queerness attested in his myths and rites, which is part of the reason I associate him with Aphrodite in my practice, who also (especially in the early, more Eastern form I worship) has associations as a patron of sexual outlaws and trans/genderqueer people.

I didn't know that about Aphrodite. I do work with her as part of my practice, I'll have to do some more digging to find out more about her.

I don't know as much about gender variance in Artemis's lore, although I do know that her worship varied greatly across the Hellenic and neighboring world.

I don't think there's much, if any, gender variation in her lore. My approach to her fluidity is more to do with the rather nebulous nature of her sexuality. I view her sexuality as very fluid and she presents a very tomboy-ish image to me. According to some myths She kept the company of lady-loving folk. Obviously that doesn't mean She's that way inclined. Something tells me She'll never really let on as to Her preferences. 

In my practice, Mercury presents himself as containing both male and female identities and takes variously-gendered forms; he is the union of the queer-masculine force of Dionysos and the transgressive-feminine force of Aphrodite.

I can really relate to that. For me the Horned God is a genderqueer energy. They take the shape that a particular situation calls for. They manifest in their feminine as Skadi, Artemis and Medeina and their masculine as Herne, Yarilo and Dionysus. Of course that's a bit of an over-simplification on my part. ^^;

I haven't gotten the whole story together yet, but I believe that the overall shape of it suggests that as he appears in my cosmos, Mercury is essentially the regeneration, after several fragmented generations, of a slain primal bigender Mother-God representing cosmic harmony, truth, beauty, and divine love--their energy having needed to descend all the way from a distant cosmic force through a human being before it could reassemble.

Nor have I, I have a lot of disparate parts that I'm trying to assemble into something cohesive. I know the feminine energy is a combination of the Virgin Mary and Mokosh. There's other deities that are floating around but they've made it very clear that they're their own entity. But I love your cosmology, it's utterly fascinating. It's really given me some food for thought.

[Sefiru]

That's interesting, is there something specific that drew you to view Sokar as female/hermaphroditic?

Not really? There's so little information available about him that I have more UPG than anything else. He is a harvest/fertility deity, which in my mind is associated with both sexes, because (biological) fertility requires both.

[goblin-queen]

Not really? There's so little information available about him that I have more UPG than anything else. He is a harvest/fertility deity, which in my mind is associated with both sexes, because (biological) fertility requires both.

That makes sense. It's why I view the Forest Spirit as genderfluid. It made little sense to me to have one gender be the sole overseer of animals/nature. I don't know where the Mother fits in terms of gender as Mokosh is sometimes depicted as having male genitalia. However as her aspect as Our Lady she presents as purely female. It's all a bit of a mess atm. ^^;

[Eastling]

I didn't know that about Aphrodite. I do work with her as part of my practice, I'll have to do some more digging to find out more about her.

Aphrodite has a lot in common with the Ancient Near Eastern Queen of Heaven archetype typified by Ishtar/Inanna. I don't believe, as many scholars do, that she is simply an import of those goddesses into the Greek pantheon, but she definitely shares influence with them, and they tended to be associated with a class of trans or genderqueer priestesses (possibly also sometimes priests). In addition, while Aphrodite was often connected to socially approved sexuality such as marriage (despite that being primarily Hera's domain), she was very much also a goddess of sex workers, who are often treated as sexual outlaws by society.

I don't think there's much, if any, gender variation in her [Artemis's] lore. My approach to her fluidity is more to do with the rather nebulous nature of her sexuality. I view her sexuality as very fluid and she presents a very tomboy-ish image to me. According to some myths She kept the company of lady-loving folk. Obviously that doesn't mean She's that way inclined. Something tells me She'll never really let on as to Her preferences. 

Well, just as Zeus and Apollo have myths of lifting pretty boys up to their side, Artemis has myths of doing the same for girls she liked.

[Aisling]

ineffable woo

May I borrow this phrase, please?

And the Morrigan, well, zie wears fancy ballroom dresses with a sword strapped on overtop, zir skirts soaked in blood and zir face caked with mud and make-up.
[snip]
and the Morrigan is...Captain Jack Harkness.

Agreed. All of this with a bit of War from Good Omens.

[arete]

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 

There is God Hermaphroditos. A great God 

The gender is not only two. There are more to discribe nature. 

[Altair]

So I'd love to know if anyone has a similar experience or work with deities who don't fit into the gender or sexuality binary. 

The following can only be UPG, since my gods are unique to me:

Lots of gender and sexual fluidity in my pantheon, starting with the supreme divine, that is briefly genderless and then, with her first act, the Great Goddess...who soon thereafter manifests in 3 male incarnations.

One of those three has distinctly masculine energy, but is the most fluid of all: He'll have sex with nearly anyone or anything, and he'll shapeshift into any gender or none or multiples at once, assume any form, and take on any state of matter or energy to achieve that goal and further everyone's pleasure.

[goblin-queen]

Aphrodite has a lot in common with the Ancient Near Eastern Queen of Heaven archetype typified by Ishtar/Inanna. I don't believe, as many scholars do, that she is simply an import of those goddesses into the Greek pantheon, but she definitely shares influence with them, and they tended to be associated with a class of trans or genderqueer priestesses (possibly also sometimes priests).

I've heard of that connection before but not done much research into it. I did read an interesting article about the Scythian pantheon yesterday which mentioned Argimpasa who is possibly related to, or the origin of Aphrodite Ourania. She was seen a Queen of the Heavens whose rituals were presided over by Enerei; who were described as effeminate or androgynous.

In addition, while Aphrodite was often connected to socially approved sexuality such as marriage (despite that being primarily Hera's domain), she was very much also a goddess of sex workers, who are often treated as sexual outlaws by society.

I love that I've been researching Greek deities for years and I'm still finding stuff out!

Well, just as Zeus and Apollo have myths of lifting pretty boys up to their side, Artemis has myths of doing the same for girls she liked.

That's very true. I thinking more of Callisto and Orion. I don't know of any sources detailing romantic feelings on Artemis's side but I view Callisto as being lesbian, or at least very fluid in her sexuality. The various tales of Orion fascinate me as well. Especially the one where he depicted as the love interest of Artemis, much to the chagrin of her brother!