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Author Topic: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"  (Read 2353 times)

Sharysa

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"...And keep the Fair Folk from messing with you again!" Which is very, very welcome, considering all the confusion I went through this year.

Basically, there are five animal spirits who got my attention by sending me visions of my favorite musical (Spring Awakening). They finally started showing up in my meditations, but that's about all they're doing right now. I've looked up folklore and the information is REALLY hit-or-miss for two of them, while a third seems determined to confuse me the more I try to pin his identity down, so this definitely isn't limited to Celtic Reconstructionism.

-----
Moritz: The bear. His human form is a tall (at least 6 ft), gangly teenager with blond curly hair. He turned into a grizzly when he got mad, but the more important fact is that he's a bear. He's the only one with trouble transforming (it took a while and seemed very painful), and he actually seems to dislike changing. He's probably the least "matched" to his animal counterpart, because I wouldn't expect a bear(-god?) to be as awkward, gentle, and happy as he is--and yet he's powerful/old enough to get insulted at being called one of the Fair Folk.

Martha: The boar. Her human form is an average-height African-American girl with a pointed face and a strong nose. What's weird is how strongly she resembles Lilli Cooper, Broadway's original actress for Martha--nobody else looks like the Broadway cast. Given that she's protective of Moritz, extremely direct, and assertive to the point of aggression, she's definitely very boar-like. When I wanted to contact the others, she and Moritz came to me in a dream and had me eat rowan berries so I could "see" them more easily.

Wendla: The turtledove. It's odd how specific her species is, especially since turtledoves are rare in Ireland. She's sweet, nurturing, and gentle, but given she identifies with the character of Wendla because she lost a child somehow, it's hard to pin her down. Also, she acts maternal but looks so childlike and delicate that I feel like she'd break if I touch her too hard. She has long (mid-back to waist-length) medium-brown hair and almost literal "doe-eyes;" they're big and brown, and the whites of her eyes are barely visible.

Melchior: The deer. His human form is tall, compact, and has straight dark-brown hair with very dark eyes. He's proud, charismatic, and energetic, which to my knowledge matches Celtic symbolism. But at the same time, he's with Wendla a lot--she can perch on his antlers or back and no matter how much he prances around, nobody ever worries about her. He doesn't seem to match the folklore of the Horned God, Herne, or Cernunnos, as his human and animal forms are very distinct.

Hanschen: The fox. His human form is tall and broad-shouldered, with shoulder-length black hair and unusually pale skin. Like Melchior, he's very charismatic and "foxy." Two unexpected details: 1) He's gay, which is why he took Hanschen's role, and 2) he's bitter about children leaving or disappearing. The most I've gotten was "changeling/fairy" (pun certainly intended) and a sense of abandonment. It's the only thing he can't lie or joke about; otherwise he's ridiculously snarky. Another odd detail is that he's a black/silver fox, not a normal red one. I asked him why and he went, "Why not?" Which is definitely a trickster's answer.

-
1. Do any of them match figures from mythology or folklore? As mentioned, they aren't limited to the Celtic countries, so my information about them is even more scattered than usual.

2. How can I get them to answer my questions? I keep asking them their real names, why they're here, and where they come from, but nobody gives a straight answer. I'm not sure if it's because I'm not asking the right questions, or because they want me to work at it. I can deal with the second one, but the first means I had to sift through pages of folklore just to get what I DO know.
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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 08:41:26 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69548
"...And keep the Fair Folk from messing with you again!"


Bear, boar, and deer are extremely old animistic cult animals, possibly since paleolithic times.

Artio is a Celtic goddess who appears as a bear sometimes. But that is all I know.

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 09:46:06 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69548
"Basically, there are five animal spirits who got my attention...

 
Sounds like native american to me, not old irish.... you are living in the right area for those spirits. I do not know what they mean, but I would try to look there... native american spirits do not deal with names as old world ones do
Where the wild things are is where I am most at home." - Kim Antieau

Sharysa

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 10:52:44 pm »
Quote from: woodhick;69596
Sounds like native american to me, not old irish.... you are living in the right area for those spirits. I do not know what they mean, but I would try to look there... native american spirits do not deal with names as old world ones do


Well, they DO frequently take me to a redwood forest when I meditate, but when I asked Moritz if he lived there, he went, "Yeah, I like it here!" in that "just moved here from Wisconsin" way. Also, Moritz and Martha took me to a rowan tree in my dream. While there are Californian rowan trees, rowan doesn't feature half as often in Native American mythology as the European counterpart does.

While I was looking for ancient bear-worship, I came across the Finnish mythology and while I was reading all the stuff, I started hearing an older woman's voice repeating the names and terms for me. You know how parents teach their kids to speak? She's doing that, because I'm barely familiar with Finnish and whenever I mispronounce something or stare blankly at the names (which is often, since Finnish has either five syllables or a lot of accents), she says it correctly for me.

Since Moritz explicitly hates the Fair Folk and the various unwanted voices stopped when the group of them came, they at least expected Her to show up.

I'm also heading to the pagan shop over the weekend for more info.
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Juniperberry

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 11:29:48 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69610
Well, they DO frequently take me to a redwood forest when I meditate, but when I asked Moritz if he lived there, he went, "Yeah, I like it here!" in that "just moved here from Wisconsin" way. Also, Moritz and Martha took me to a rowan tree in my dream. While there are Californian rowan trees, rowan doesn't feature half as often in Native American mythology as the European counterpart does.

While I was looking for ancient bear-worship, I came across the Finnish mythology and while I was reading all the stuff, I started hearing an older woman's voice repeating the names and terms for me. You know how parents teach their kids to speak? She's doing that, because I'm barely familiar with Finnish and whenever I mispronounce something or stare blankly at the names (which is often, since Finnish has either five syllables or a lot of accents), she says it correctly for me.

Since Moritz explicitly hates the Fair Folk and the various unwanted voices stopped when the group of them came, they at least expected Her to show up.

I'm also heading to the pagan shop over the weekend for more info.

 

How do you know that she's pronouncing them correctly?

Good to see you decided the voices weren't beneficial. Since you were doing soul fragment work before this, there's a good possibility these animals represents aspects of your multiple soul. It's rather common for them to take on animal form, since man is animal and a beast can represent a metaphorical, concentrated quality (such as bear/strength).
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 11:48:20 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;69616
How do you know that she's pronouncing them correctly?


Because I looked up the stuff she was correcting me on. I tend to use either my American intonation or the sing-song Irish one, and Finnish is very monotonous; she keeps correcting me especially on that one.

Also, she makes me soften my consonants--for example, I said "Tapio" with a normal T and she went, "No, Dapio." I looked it up and "softer" consonants (non-aspirated) are indeed a feature of Finnish.

Quote
Good to see you decided the voices weren't beneficial.


Well, the months of confusion and constant near-relapsing into depression helped a lot. I could deal with being thought of as crazy, but I hate being confused and depressed.

Quote
Since you were doing soul fragment work before this, there's a good possibility these animals represents aspects of your multiple soul. It's rather common for them to take on animal form, since man is animal and a beast can represent a metaphorical, concentrated quality (such as bear/strength).


Huh, keeping that in mind. But why would they look completely different? The first three soul-pieces looked like me.
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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2012, 12:52:26 am »
Quote from: Sharysa;69618
Huh, keeping that in mind. But why would they look completely different? The first three soul-pieces looked like me.

Because your multiple souls aren't necessarily you. For example the fylgja, the animal soul/fetch of a person, has some evidence to support that it was originally seen as the placenta aka "that which accompanies the child". Other cultures have similar placenta/soul-twin understandings.

There was also a common conception of a person's emotions taking on a life of their own. The envy of one farmer would become the milk-stealing hag (or butterfly) of another farmer, working independently of the original person.

Just a couple of ideas.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 12:57:01 am by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2012, 12:39:09 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;69624
Because your multiple souls aren't necessarily you. For example the fylgja, the animal soul/fetch of a person, has some evidence to support that it was originally seen as the placenta aka "that which accompanies the child". Other cultures have similar placenta/soul-twin understandings.

There was also a common conception of a person's emotions taking on a life of their own. The envy of one farmer would become the milk-stealing hag (or butterfly) of another farmer, working independently of the original person.


Well, that kind of makes sense. So tying into the whole "soul breaking into pieces" thing, there's also the concept of the soul's aspects being different entities to start with?

And since the Lady wasn't really talking to me besides teaching me to say things, I decided to try speaking Finnish in case she didn't speak English. (Yes, I now know how stupid/USA-centric that is. It's also inconsistent with the REST of the entities I've been talking to.)

This morning at breakfast I said "Hyvää huomenta" (good morning) to her, and she laughed and went "That was nice!"

Cue the facepalm.

Also, I'm now looking for deities associated with the group's backgrounds and personalities as opposed to their animals. For example, Wendla would be a goddess of mothers who lost their children due to difficult births/pregnancies (because someone like her would have a really hard time with that), Hanschen is involved with literally lost/missing children, and so on.
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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2012, 02:43:38 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69670
Well, that kind of makes sense. So tying into the whole "soul breaking into pieces" thing, there's also the concept of the soul's aspects being different entities to start with?

And since the Lady wasn't really talking to me besides teaching me to say things, I decided to try speaking Finnish in case she didn't speak English. (Yes, I now know how stupid/USA-centric that is. It's also inconsistent with the REST of the entities I've been talking to.)

This morning at breakfast I said "Hyvää huomenta" (good morning) to her, and she laughed and went "That was nice!"

Cue the facepalm.

Also, I'm now looking for deities associated with the group's backgrounds and personalities as opposed to their animals. For example, Wendla would be a goddess of mothers who lost their children due to difficult births/pregnancies (because someone like her would have a really hard time with that), Hanschen is involved with literally lost/missing children, and so on.


 I can't say what's going on with you for sure, obviously, but, yes there are different ways in which a person can project soul.

 "Norse mythology is by no means a map of a concrete world, rather it is a guide to the mental universe." (S. Billington, The Concept of the Goddess)

"People's notions of distant landscapes may be named 'the space of wishes', since the hopes and fears of many generations have been projected into it." (Zvago Smitek, The Image of the Real world and the World Beyond in Slovene Folk Tradition)

What Billington and Smitek are talking about are, as Smitek puts it, the profano-utopian world and the cult-utopian world. The profano-utopian is the here, and the cult-utopian is the there. Gods and man exist in the first while spirits, the dead, and Other exist in the cultic. But these two worlds (according to your tradition) intersect. The profano-utopian exists in two dimensions, length and width, the plane of the physical world. The cult-utopian is three-dimensional; above, below, and around...the otherworld.

We mentallymap the otherworld. Soul and thought navigate through it but are tied to our physical bodies. Your fylgja exists in the otherworld. Your body exists in the physical. Your mind exists in both moving between waking/dreaming and mundane/ecstasies. Death, of course, being the long sleep of your body while thought and soul/s transverse the cult-utopian. (And this is where you reach a divide between world-rejecting and world-accepting philosophies. Do you completely split and move on to cult-utopia, or are both worlds constantly intertwined?)

I would make a guess that your experiences would be similar to mapping out the mental universe, and that you're touching upon cult-utopian symbols and metaphors that have some meaning to you. The tree, the bear, the stag: the other world. There's a good chance you aren't actually visiting the cult-utopia, but projecting expression of the mind, soul, Other within you.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2012, 05:21:49 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;69682




That's actually pretty fascinating. I had no idea people could do that.

So later today I asked Moritz if he knew the Lady, and he went, "Yeah, it's Mom!" Which is helpful, but at the same time NOT. So she's most likely a bear goddess.

And then, recalling that spirits/deities don't have language barriers in the same way we do, I decided to actually ask if the Lady was Finnish. She laughed and went, "No--Italia."

And fkljdaslng;a that explains everything.

1. Everyone has dark hair and eyes except Moritz, Mr. Adorable Blond. And blondes are actually pretty common in certain parts of Italy.

2. Guess which country invented the modern singing techniques? No wonder they both got my attention and got called over by a musical.

3. The constant red herrings involving Germany.

4. Guess which country is THE center of Catholicism, and guess whose ethnicity is also renowned for being strongly Catholic?

I'm just going to bang my head against the wall until they stop laughing at me. Then I'm going to see what I can find on pre-Catholic Italy.
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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2012, 06:32:21 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69689


1. Everyone has dark hair and eyes except Moritz, Mr. Adorable Blond. And blondes are actually pretty common in certain parts of Italy.


 
As resident Italian I can certify that blondes are actually rare in all parts of Italy. And while Italy was the opera's cradle, it's a far cry from saying that we invented 'modern singing tecniques', IF you were sayig that.
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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2012, 06:39:11 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69689
I had no idea people could do that.


No idea people could do what? Contextualize spirituality?
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2012, 08:33:12 pm »
Quote from: SkySamuelle;69698
As resident Italian I can certify that blondes are actually rare in all parts of Italy. And while Italy was the opera's cradle, it's a far cry from saying that we invented 'modern singing tecniques', IF you were sayig that.

 
Huh--maybe I mistook "blondes are relatively common in X parts of Italy (considering they're in a hot and sunny climate and the blond gene is recessive)" for what I said in my post.

Also, I probably should have stopped banging my head long enough to clarify that "Italy was, and still is, the most influential force on modern singing." Modern performers refer to a classical operatic voice as "legit(imate)," which is a pretty obvious sign of bias, and those with legit voices frequently get the most roles because they're the most adaptable.

Opera may not be common anymore, but its influence on singing isn't going away very soon.

Quote from: Juniperberry;69699
No idea people could do what? Contextualize spirituality?


Nope. At least, not to the extent that I'm potentially doing.
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Sharysa

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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2012, 08:46:07 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69709




So, I've looked up Stregheria and there are two goddesses that Wendla went "Yay!" to. Like, she's literally giggling and clapping her hands, going "Yay!" It's kind of infectious. :P

Thalna - Etruscan Goddess of Childbirth; depicted as a youthful woman.

Turan - Etruscan Goddess of Love, Health and Fertility; usually portrayed as a young woman with wings on her back.
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Re: Five animals. No apparent message aside from "Hi! Let's hang out!"
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2012, 05:08:07 pm »
Quote from: Sharysa;69712




As usual, Hanschen's attempts to point me in the right direction come WAAAAAY out of left field.

Brief version of my dream: Me and Melchior were in some sort of street festival. We were drunk and happy, and then Fox-Hanschen walked through the air to get to us. He turned human, and someone called out, "This is the Day of the Dead!"

And I remember getting really weirded out at hearing that. In addition, Hanschen was just standing there in the middle of the street, staring at us intently, and then we had to stop and look back at him. Then I remembered how deathly pale Hanschen is--if anyone was literally WHITE like paper, it's Hanschen.

I tried to remember more of it, but all I got was hearing about the Baron Samedi at some point. Isn't the Baron a Creole figure?

Also, is there a "Day of the Dead" celebration in Louisiana? From what I can find, that sort of thing is Mexican, in Mexican-influenced areas, and Europe.

However, I do remember in May that an old man's voice was constantly telling me to "wait for winter." Which would likely mean Samhain (at least in my religion's context).
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