collapse

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Father Moon and Mother Sun?  (Read 1320 times)

Nymree

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2016
  • Posts: 91
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 10
    • View Profile
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/her
Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« on: August 13, 2016, 06:08:23 pm »
This is something I've begun to experience lately in my own life, as the goddess always seems a more vibrant and powerful force in my life whereas the god is often very removed and more of an observer. However, I've also experienced the goddess more as mother nature, whereas my own experience of the god seems to depict him as a normal (but huge) man who takes other forms. This, though, is beside the point.

I was recently thinking about the polarity of deity, especially in a wicca-inspired path, and how the goddess is often associated with the Moon and the god the Sun. While I can see where this comes from, especially considering the elemental correspondences and how people associate archetypal characteristics with these elements, my own experience is maybe slightly different as I have stated. I read up on it, and found this article:

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001800.html

Any thoughts? My experiences may have no influence whatsoever on how I understand the god and goddess and how they connect to the Sun and Moon - I just always saw the Moon as a more removed energy, like the god. Then again, the Moon's energy is also very soft and (for want of a better word) gentle or compassionate, which also ties in with my experience of the mother aspect of goddess. Either way, I found the article very interesting and it has made me rethink a lot of my own perspective on my path.

Another point that interested me, found in the comments, was the point that moonlight comes from sunlight and thus the suggestion that "a woman is a half man".
Again, thoughts? Quite an idea, especially when you think about it on an energetic level (moonlight as a reflection of sunlight), but I really can't begin to consider how this would affect the wiccan understanding of god and goddess and how these correspond to astral bodies.

I also want to state that I'm not sexist in the slightest, and I know that wicca isn't the only area in paganism. It's just the one most involved in my current understanding of the goddess and god in my own life. And, of course, a lot said here is based off of my own experience, but I'm more interested in the article.

Blessed Be,

 - Nymree

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2016, 07:16:44 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;194965
I read up on it, and found this article:

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001800.html

Any thoughts?

 
I don't believe, that Goodman's idea of an earlier female Sun and a later male Sun is well-founded. It is rather a matter of geographical division: Both models have existed at the same time, but at different places.

In several mythologies there has been both a Sun goddess and a Sun god, and/or both a Moon goddess and a Moon god: Ugaritic mythology and the later phase of development of Greek religion are both examples of this, at least concerning the Moon (Yarich and Nikkal, Selene and Men).

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3168
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 90
    • View Profile
    • Jack of Many Trades
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2016, 01:46:30 am »
Quote from: Nymree;194965
Any thoughts?

 
Off the top of my head, Norse, Baltic and Japanese mythology have Sun goddesses and Moon gods. It's not an uncommon construction at all, and if it makes more sense to you I see no reason why you shouldn't work with it.

I don't really care for the article either, though, but I don't understand the need to assign a whole bunch of symbolism to human conception in particular anyway.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Yei

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 562
  • Country: au
  • Total likes: 145
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Mexica Reconstructionism
  • Preferred Pronouns: He/Him/His
Re: Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2016, 09:16:48 am »
Quote from: Nymree;194965
This is something I've begun to experience lately in my own life, as the goddess always seems a more vibrant and powerful force in my life whereas the god is often very removed and more of an observer. However, I've also experienced the goddess more as mother nature, whereas my own experience of the god seems to depict him as a normal (but huge) man who takes other forms. This, though, is beside the point.

I was recently thinking about the polarity of deity, especially in a wicca-inspired path, and how the goddess is often associated with the Moon and the god the Sun. While I can see where this comes from, especially considering the elemental correspondences and how people associate archetypal characteristics with these elements, my own experience is maybe slightly different as I have stated. I read up on it, and found this article:

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001800.html

Any thoughts? My experiences may have no influence whatsoever on how I understand the god and goddess and how they connect to the Sun and Moon - I just always saw the Moon as a more removed energy, like the god. Then again, the Moon's energy is also very soft and (for want of a better word) gentle or compassionate, which also ties in with my experience of the mother aspect of goddess. Either way, I found the article very interesting and it has made me rethink a lot of my own perspective on my path.

Another point that interested me, found in the comments, was the point that moonlight comes from sunlight and thus the suggestion that "a woman is a half man".
Again, thoughts? Quite an idea, especially when you think about it on an energetic level (moonlight as a reflection of sunlight), but I really can't begin to consider how this would affect the wiccan understanding of god and goddess and how these correspond to astral bodies.

I also want to state that I'm not sexist in the slightest, and I know that wicca isn't the only area in paganism. It's just the one most involved in my current understanding of the goddess and god in my own life. And, of course, a lot said here is based off of my own experience, but I'm more interested in the article.

Blessed Be,

 - Nymree

Well, in Nahua religion there are several moon divinities. Coyolxauhqui and Metztli are the goddess (probably just one with different guises). The male one was Tecciztecatl. The sun gods are more interesting, as in Nahua mythology the sun was more of a role, and several different gods (and one goddess) took turns in being the sun.

As for the article, well ....

Quote
In many religions there are male sun gods, but they actually appeared quite late on the scene, when male priesthoods became dominant over the older priestesshoods of the Sun Goddess. They tried to downgrade the power of the feminine by assigning it to the Moon of lesser light, claiming the power and brightness of the Sun for themselves.

To me, this reads like a historical conspiracy theory. First of all, it acts like ALL civilisations, no matter how far away or fundamentally different, had some kind of central control, and made a deliberate decision to do this.

Quote
Father Moon. There is reason why Tuvans of ancient times used to call the moon Father … The sun is called Mother because as soon as dawn breaks the sun rises in the east, and likewise a Tuvan mother is always the mistress of her yurt for she takes care of the children. The moon is called Father because a father is always away and does not stay long in the yurt. Likewise, the moon does not appear in the sky every day too: it either appears or disappears.

Which may be one culture's take on it, but other cultures have different logic systems. For Mesoamerican's the sun is (usually) male, and a warrior, because it is fierce, it burns, it kills.

Quote
The Sun resembles the Ovum, the Moon resembles the Sperm

I'm fairly certain that the sun does not resemble an ovum. First of all the sun glows. It has a colour. They are of different sizes, and one is in the sky. I also do not believe that the moon represents sperm. Sperm has a tail. Perhaps the author meant semen, but her later comments suggest not. But semen does not really look like the moon anyway, and I should know.

Quote
Affirming the assignation of the Moon to the male, it is the impregnation cycle in the human female which is controlled by the Moon, the directing of impregnation being a male function. That not obvious but straightforward relation of the male lunar power with the female menstrual cycle often led to the understandable error of taking the Moon to be female.

The moon does not control the menstrual cycle. You're thinking of tides.

Quote
That error is further pointed up by the fact that in cultures like those of the Buriats of Western Mongolia, the Greenlanders, Maori and Nigerians, it is believed that the Moon could impregnate women.

Good for them. Many other cultures have no such beliefs.

I won't comment on any more points, since the post would get too long, and because it would just repeat what I've already typed. Suffice to say, I do not think much of it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 09:17:45 am by Yei »

RecycledBenedict

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2015
  • Posts: 851
  • Total likes: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2016, 09:32:26 am »
Quote from: Nymree;194965
I read up on it, and found this article:

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001800.html

Any thoughts?

When I think about it, the idea of Sun goddess equals matriarchy makes even less sense among the Hittites.

The Sun goddess of Arinna was identified with the goddess Hebat, and she was supposed (at least in some versions of the mythology) to be married to the king of the gods, Tarhunt, and the organisation of the Hittite pantheon doesn't strike me as obviously matriarchal.

Tarhunt is a very typical reptile-defeating, rock-giant-defeating, heavy-drinking and lightning-throwing storm god associated with horned animals, of a type very familiar from many other mythologies. The difference between Tarhunt, Indra, Baal, Marduk, some early versions of YHWH, Taranis, Thor, Perkaunas, Perun, Ukko, Zeus, Jupiter Heliopolitanus and Jupiter Dolichenus isn't striking, if you know my drift.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 09:36:05 am by RecycledBenedict »

patchwork_savage

  • Sr. Newbie
  • **
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 10
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2016, 11:53:56 am »
Quote from: Nymree;194965
This is something I've begun to experience lately in my own life, as the goddess always seems a more vibrant and powerful force in my life whereas the god is often very removed and more of an observer. However, I've also experienced the goddess more as mother nature, whereas my own experience of the god seems to depict him as a normal (but huge) man who takes other forms. This, though, is beside the point.

I was recently thinking about the polarity of deity, especially in a wicca-inspired path, and how the goddess is often associated with the Moon and the god the Sun. While I can see where this comes from, especially considering the elemental correspondences and how people associate archetypal characteristics with these elements, my own experience is maybe slightly different as I have stated. I read up on it, and found this article:

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001800.html

Any thoughts? My experiences may have no influence whatsoever on how I understand the god and goddess and how they connect to the Sun and Moon - I just always saw the Moon as a more removed energy, like the god. Then again, the Moon's energy is also very soft and (for want of a better word) gentle or compassionate, which also ties in with my experience of the mother aspect of goddess. Either way, I found the article very interesting and it has made me rethink a lot of my own perspective on my path.

Another point that interested me, found in the comments, was the point that moonlight comes from sunlight and thus the suggestion that "a woman is a half man".
Again, thoughts? Quite an idea, especially when you think about it on an energetic level (moonlight as a reflection of sunlight), but I really can't begin to consider how this would affect the wiccan understanding of god and goddess and how these correspond to astral bodies.

I also want to state that I'm not sexist in the slightest, and I know that wicca isn't the only area in paganism. It's just the one most involved in my current understanding of the goddess and god in my own life. And, of course, a lot said here is based off of my own experience, but I'm more interested in the article.

Blessed Be,

 - Nymree

 
First off I looked over the article it looked a little flawed in some of the facts that they were conveying. Secondly I do want to say that I have personally felt that the sun god and moon goddess thing didn't really fully work for me. I am not sure but I have always felt like the sun was a goddess something of a warrior type and the moon was a god that was gentle wiser person. Something I have learned is deities can reveal themselves different to people and people are going to have different experiences with them.

sionnachdearg

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 127
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Father Moon and Mother Sun?
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2016, 11:25:38 pm »
Quote from: Nymree;194965

Any thoughts? My experiences may have no influence whatsoever on how I understand the god and goddess and how they connect to the Sun and Moon - I just always saw the Moon as a more removed energy, like the god. Then again, the Moon's energy is also very soft and (for want of a better word) gentle or compassionate, which also ties in with my experience of the mother aspect of goddess. Either way, I found the article very interesting and it has made me rethink a lot of my own perspective on my path.


 
I do not know about other Pagan relgions but what I have learned from Gaelic religions is there is not so much a god or goddess of the moon or sun but that both male and female deities may have some associations. Now the cetlic Britons have a goddess Sulis which her name seems to associate her with the sun but she is more associated with the spring at bath and the name may be more related to eye than sun. She appears to be more related with the springs of bath and healing than a "sun goddess" and only some associations with light or sun. The god Elatha hand been described as a Moon God yet the real association appears much more indirect. The connection of the moon and the female and the length of a menstrual cycle would have been seen as well as reproductive pattern of other animals. So for Gaelic Gods and Goddesses the connection to the sun and moon is more through symbolic aspects than sun or moon gods or goddesses.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
1887 Views
Last post September 06, 2011, 09:32:40 am
by opal rivernymph
30 Replies
3637 Views
Last post April 22, 2012, 11:27:02 pm
by Wickerman
6 Replies
1231 Views
Last post July 21, 2012, 08:20:47 pm
by MattyG
8 Replies
2650 Views
Last post August 11, 2014, 03:22:02 pm
by Holdasown
3 Replies
1978 Views
Last post February 13, 2020, 02:49:24 pm
by Eastling

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 53
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 3
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall