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Author Topic: Dying-and-rising gods and associated concepts: a personal investigation  (Read 1106 times)

Eastling

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Last night I had something of a revelation.

For at least twenty years, there has been a kind of shape in my subconscious that I've persistently attempted to fill with fictional characters I've found myself attached to. It finally occurred to me that what I keep glimpsing this way may well be a god.

The shape is consistently male and profoundly associated with the intertwined concepts of self-sacrifice and self-destruction, which I tend to believe means it's a dying-and-rising god. There's also almost always some kind of association with hiding or masking one's true self, as well as powerful, consuming emotion in general.

I'm curious if other forum-goers have experience with a similar divine figure and what name they'd call Him.

I do have some idea of Who it might be, but I want to see possible alternatives, so I've tried to keep this description from being too obviously pointed at one deity, even though I could have been more specific.
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Jack

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Quote from: Eastling;190441
The shape is consistently male and profoundly associated with the intertwined concepts of self-sacrifice and self-destruction, which I tend to believe means it's a dying-and-rising god. There's also almost always some kind of association with hiding or masking one's true self, as well as powerful, consuming emotion in general.

 
You can tell where my head is because my first thought was Odin, despite the fact that I think you have to be knee-deep in my UPG to see him in a way that fits your description.
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RecycledBenedict

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Quote from: Eastling;190441
The shape is consistently male and profoundly associated with the intertwined concepts of self-sacrifice and self-destruction, which I tend to believe means it's a dying-and-rising god. There's also almost always some kind of association with hiding or masking one's true self, as well as powerful, consuming emotion in general.

I'm curious if other forum-goers have experience with a similar divine figure and what name they'd call Him.


Sounds like Attis to me.

Eastling

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Quote from: Jack;190445
You can tell where my head is because my first thought was Odin, despite the fact that I think you have to be knee-deep in my UPG to see him in a way that fits your description.


No, I see where you're coming from even if I don't think it applies to whatever divine figure I'm chasing this time.
 
Quote from: FraterBenedict;190457
Sounds like Attis to me.

 
I think there's at least a relation there, although there are aspects of Attis I definitely don't mesh with.
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Eastling

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Quote from: Eastling;190441
I do have some idea of Who it might be, but I want to see possible alternatives, so I've tried to keep this description from being too obviously pointed at one deity, even though I could have been more specific.

 
This thread is recent enough that I feel I can appropriately resurrect it to expand on what I hinted at here.

The god I feel I've been chasing is a figure I call Dionysos Levant, a syncretism of the named god with Dumuzi or Tammuz.

If I want to adhere to linguistic purity that should probably be Bacchus Levant or something like that, but I don't particularly want to adhere to linguistic purity.

There's some additional stuff in there involving Hashem (yes, that's the Jewish euphemism for YHWH) but it's pretty heavily informed by my Judaism/Jewish upbringing, not to mention soaked in UPG and free association, so I won't get into it in this part of the board.

That's not to say the responses upthread weren't helpful to me. I had some interesting thoughts about Attis, and in a more pop-culture-archetype sense, I sort of feel like the Power in question is the intersection of the Hanged Man and the Fool--which could certainly bring Odin into the picture too.
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RecycledBenedict

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Quote from: Eastling;190576
The god I feel I've been chasing is a figure I call Dionysos Levant, a syncretism of the named god with Dumuzi or Tammuz.

(...)

There's some additional stuff in there involving Hashem (yes, that's the Jewish euphemism for YHWH) but it's pretty heavily informed by my Judaism/Jewish upbringing, not to mention soaked in UPG and free association, so I won't get into it in this part of the board.


That is interesting. Just a few historical observations, that may (or may not) assist you:

Herodotus says this about one of the Arabian gods:

Quote
They believe in no other gods except Dionysos and Aphrodite Ourania; and they say that they wear their hair as Dionysos does his, cutting it round the head and shaving the temples. They call Dionysus, Orotalt; and Aphrodite, Alilat.


Herodotus says this abboyut Tammuz:

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Melampos was the one who taught the Greeks the name of Dionysos and the way of sacrificing to him . . . I believe that Melampos learned the worship of Dionysos chiefly from Kadmos of Tyre and those who came with Kadmos from Phoinikia to the land now called Boiotia.


Cicero writes this in De Natura Deorum:

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We have a number of Dionysi. The first is the son of Jupiter and Proserpine ; the second of Nile--he is the fabled slayer of Nysa. The father of the third is Cabirus; it is stated that he was king over Asia, and the Sabazia were instituted in his honour. The fourth is the son of Jupiter and Luna; the Orphic rites are believed to be celebrated in his honour. The fifth is the son of Nisus and Thyone, and is believed to have established the Trieterid festival.


Many classical authors, among them Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus amd Cicero identify Osiris with Dionysus.

Cornelius Labeo wrote a book about Apollo's oracle in Clarus which answered some pilgrims asking 'Who is the god Iao?':

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He is Hades in winter, Zeus in spring, Helios in summer, and Dionysus in autumn.

Eastling

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Quote from: FraterBenedict;190579
That is interesting. Just a few historical observations, that may (or may not) assist you:

 
Thanks, some of this is potentially useful.
"The peacock can show its whole tail at once, but I can only tell you a story."
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