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Author Topic: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)  (Read 5963 times)

CozyWitch

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Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« on: July 26, 2011, 08:07:42 am »
Last night when I went to bed, I was pondering about some things.
 
I usually have a lot of Celtic influence in my Craft, but it hit me last night . . . Hekate's calling. When that happened, I was in total shock. I was thinking about the things in life that are happening and the circumstances when I see lots of crows and how they look at me. I think about how sometimes I'm being guided by the Crossroads even though there are none near me that I'm aware of.
 
I know I'm an Eclectic, but sheesh, this has caught me off guard.
 
Now, I would never call upon Deities from other pantheons in a ritual or whatever, but how do you handle the whole "dual-pantheistic" (is that even a word?) practice that may happen?
 
Most of the time, I usually just refer to the God and Goddess as Lord and Lady and ponder upon all of their names, but I never really use any specific Deity in my practice . . . But Hekate keeps telling me, "I'm She who has called you. Hearken to me. Take control of your life, I can help you. I will guide you. You will be my servant and I will become as your Mother. My power is Ancient, even Zeus himself could not give me that which I did not already have."
 
I really don't know how to process that because, why would she choose me. The entire time I've been a witch, I've NEVER had a Deity be so blunt and say, "I'm the one."
 
I can state this . . . I may have some Wicca influence that I will probably have to give up, at least that's what Hekate is showing me . . . Not because She does not want me to use it, but She is telling me there is more than I could imagine in forms of the Craft that She wants to reveal to me that could broaden my mind and abilities.
 
So . . . any advice for this bumfuzzled witch? :confused:

Jenett

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 09:21:13 am »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8300

So . . . any advice for this bumfuzzled witch? :confused:

 
My trad works with and honors Hecate on a regular basis.

The best way I have to describe her is very pragmatic - she's about getting things done.

You mention that you feel you might need to give up Wiccan influence - honestly, I think it depends on what you mean by that. Our ritual practice is Wiccan-derived (circle, 8 Sabbats, a number of other practices), and she's been quite fine with that, especially if care is taken to honor her traditional attributes and associations.

What she's not fine with, in my experience, is people trying to do the love-and-light approach to magical work. She is, in a lot of ways, where my understanding of "You have to know how to hex in order to heal" came from: in other words, you have to know what can cause harm, in some detail, in order to be able to act in ways that change (and heal) that harm.

You don't get to close your eyes to what is uncomfortable, or what you'd rather not do (you might decide not to do it, but you're going to need to look at it clearly first.) You don't get to live in a world of black and white moral choices - there's a lot of learning to understand that few things are quite that simple.

I have seen her be infinitely gentle to someone in need - and I've seen her turn around and smack someone who's been slacking on their commitments with a clue by four. That said, it's usually a compassionate and necessary clue-by-four: someone not living up to what they said they'd do, or being pretty deliberately dense about the consequences of their action.
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CozyWitch

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 10:41:44 am »
Quote from: Jenett;8322
My trad works with and honors Hecate on a regular basis.
 
The best way I have to describe her is very pragmatic - she's about getting things done.
 
You mention that you feel you might need to give up Wiccan influence - honestly, I think it depends on what you mean by that. Our ritual practice is Wiccan-derived (circle, 8 Sabbats, a number of other practices), and she's been quite fine with that, especially if care is taken to honor her traditional attributes and associations.
 
What she's not fine with, in my experience, is people trying to do the love-and-light approach to magical work. She is, in a lot of ways, where my understanding of "You have to know how to hex in order to heal" came from: in other words, you have to know what can cause harm, in some detail, in order to be able to act in ways that change (and heal) that harm.
 
You don't get to close your eyes to what is uncomfortable, or what you'd rather not do (you might decide not to do it, but you're going to need to look at it clearly first.) You don't get to live in a world of black and white moral choices - there's a lot of learning to understand that few things are quite that simple.
 
I have seen her be infinitely gentle to someone in need - and I've seen her turn around and smack someone who's been slacking on their commitments with a clue by four. That said, it's usually a compassionate and necessary clue-by-four: someone not living up to what they said they'd do, or being pretty deliberately dense about the consequences of their action.

Thanks, Jenett.
 
What I meant by the whole giving up some of the Wicca-influence is basically that even though I know how to hex in order to heal, I usually try to stay with the light side and not be blunt and forceful when I need to be. I do use the 8 sabbats and 13 esbats to be in tune with nature and She is fine with that because that's something I've asked about when I have talked with Her. However, She told me something that an old friend of mine who practiced the Craft told me . . . that there is more that I am destined to do and can remain a healer but I must allow my powers/Craft to expand and not be restricted. She's actually been matter-of-fact with me and told me I need to stop worrying about not offending others and allow myself to do my Craft right.
 
I know She has my best interest in mind . . . but when you've practiced something for several years, how do you really let go? I've added and taken things from my practice but I still keep them, but She wants me to really let go. I feel stupid because as a witch, I should be capable in doing so . . . but I'm human.
 
Another thing she's brought to mind are . . . strangely enough . . . The Nine Satanic Sins by Anton Szandor LaVey.
 
Quote from: The Nine Satanic Sins - Anton Szandor LaVey ©1987

1. Stupidity
2. Pretentiousness
3. Solipsism
4. Self-deceit
5. Herd Conformity
6. Lack of Perspective
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8. Counterproductive Pride
9. Lack of Aesthetics
 

Now, why Hekate chose to show me that . . . I am clueless. However, I can see how I've been guilty of these things . . . Especially #4. There are times when I know that I need to do something but I usually try to sugarcoat my way around it.
 
All I know to do is just answer Her and do what She asks. Still trying to get over the shock of Her coming to me.

monsnoleedra

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 12:09:20 pm »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8300
.. but it hit me last night . . . Hekate's calling. When that happened, I was in total shock. ..


The Illuminated One has been one I have been sworn to for some time.  To say she is forceful is an understatement for sure.  In my experience she will give you a bit of rope then hang you with it if you do not move at her pace for your progress or jerk it to remind you.  

Reading your post it strikes me that much of your reference comes from the Chaldean chronicles, especially the part about old Anton.

I can't speak to the Wiccan wheel and honoring her as I do not follow it.  For me Hekate fills me with images of ceremonies and rites when she thinks it is time to honor her in a specific way.  Sometimes subtle, other times like being smacked upon the head with a hammer to drive it home.

As I write this the presence I associate to Hekate surrounds me which is something she has always done when I start to speak of her.  Yet she also compells me to write things in her name which is part of my oath and bonding to her.

You speak of the cross-roads yet I get a sense of do you know what they mean?  Most seem to equate it to an "X" shaped crossroad but hers were always "Y" shaped.  That lesson was pounded home by her in the sense that the base was where you are at and coming from, one leg the future you have taken, the other leg the future you might have taken.  Yet it also equated to her influence upon Earth, Heaven and Water.

Just a side note but from all I have been able to research cross roads in ancient Greece and Anatolia were always "Y" shaped never in an "X" shape.  Even today I saw no "X" shaped crossroads when I was in Korfu or Rhodes, always "Y" shaped.

I am also encouraged to mention the Three Keys and Dice she is associated with.  The keys that not only open the physical boundaries but also the three levels of spiritual boundaries.  Though those three boundaries also vary between different practices and personal beliefs.

If you search for the "Procession of the Key" at Lagina it gives a little more info on a seasonal observance that was held there.

http://home.insightbb.com/~spectre/temple3/textlib/TheProcessionoftehkey.doc

This is only my opinon so to others it may very but Hekate has forbidden me to utilize the so called Hekate's Wheel emblem you see on the net.  She says you do not find it at Lagina nor any sanctuary she has and it is not her's.  Every one speaks to the Chaldean Chronicles, specifically when it speaks of Dancing the Stratopolis (sp) but that was an object spun about the head and resembled a dice cube and made of gold by most accounts.

But it is up to you if you desire to use it though I do see more and more devotees of Hekate questioning it and being told it is not hers.

When it comes to Hekate (or Artemis for that matter) I am very opinionated but will gladly talk with you about how I see and view her (them).  May not match what you've heard but I can guarentee it will be honest and based upon what she has shown, told and inspired in and to me.

CozyWitch

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 12:27:05 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;8358
The Illuminated One has been one I have been sworn to for some time. To say she is forceful is an understatement for sure. In my experience she will give you a bit of rope then hang you with it if you do not move at her pace for your progress or jerk it to remind you.
 
Reading your post it strikes me that much of your reference comes from the Chaldean chronicles, especially the part about old Anton.
 
I can't speak to the Wiccan wheel and honoring her as I do not follow it. For me Hekate fills me with images of ceremonies and rites when she thinks it is time to honor her in a specific way. Sometimes subtle, other times like being smacked upon the head with a hammer to drive it home.
 
As I write this the presence I associate to Hekate surrounds me which is something she has always done when I start to speak of her. Yet she also compells me to write things in her name which is part of my oath and bonding to her.
 
You speak of the cross-roads yet I get a sense of do you know what they mean? Most seem to equate it to an "X" shaped crossroad but hers were always "Y" shaped. That lesson was pounded home by her in the sense that the base was where you are at and coming from, one leg the future you have taken, the other leg the future you might have taken. Yet it also equated to her influence upon Earth, Heaven and Water.
 
Just a side note but from all I have been able to research cross roads in ancient Greece and Anatolia were always "Y" shaped never in an "X" shape. Even today I saw no "X" shaped crossroads when I was in Korfu or Rhodes, always "Y" shaped.
 
I am also encouraged to mention the Three Keys and Dice she is associated with. The keys that not only open the physical boundaries but also the three levels of spiritual boundaries. Though those three boundaries also vary between different practices and personal beliefs.
 
If you search for the "Procession of the Key" at Lagina it gives a little more info on a seasonal observance that was held there.
 
http://home.insightbb.com/~spectre/temple3/textlib/TheProcessionoftehkey.doc
 
This is only my opinon so to others it may very but Hekate has forbidden me to utilize the so called Hekate's Wheel emblem you see on the net. She says you do not find it at Lagina nor any sanctuary she has and it is not her's. Every one speaks to the Chaldean Chronicles, specifically when it speaks of Dancing the Stratopolis (sp) but that was an object spun about the head and resembled a dice cube and made of gold by most accounts.
 
But it is up to you if you desire to use it though I do see more and more devotees of Hekate questioning it and being told it is not hers.
 
When it comes to Hekate (or Artemis for that matter) I am very opinionated but will gladly talk with you about how I see and view her (them). May not match what you've heard but I can guarentee it will be honest and based upon what she has shown, told and inspired in and to me.

monsnoleedra . . .
 
You've impressed me with your words, but some of them I'm not familiar with, so I will point out what I didn't understand and maybe you can clarify.
 
First off . . . when I looked up the Hekate's wheel, I was not feeling that it was to be a part of my practice. With Hekate . . . most of my practices as far as what is on my altar will remain . . . my black and white candle, my cauldron, my abalone shell and smudge stick, my sickle, my athame, my scrying mirror, tarot cards, etc. Seeing as She is the Mistress of Magic, She would probably have me doing a lot more than what I am already.
 
Second, as far as my reference . . . what are the Chaldean Chronicles? I have never heard of them, so I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. :o Also, the Wiccan wheel (Lammas, Samhain, etc.), I don't really honor per se but I do honor the changing of the seasons (Sabbats, as I call them . . . possibly erroneously?) (Equinoxes and Solstices) and the Esbats.
 
I never associated the Crossroads with the "X" shaped because I was always told it was "Y" shaped and that's how it's always been for me.
 
You have me intriqued by your words, am looking forward to discussing Hekate more in depth with you in the future.

Melamphoros

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 12:45:18 pm »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8368
Also, the Wiccan wheel (Lammas, Samhain, etc.), I don't really honor per se but I do honor the changing of the seasons (Sabbats, as I call them . . . possibly erroneously?) (Equinoxes and Solstices) and the Esbats.

 
I'd just call them the Equinoxes and Solstices, it would stop at least some confusion.  W/R/T the Esbats, Hekate is associated more with the new moon than the full.  If you haven't found it yet, theoi.com is an excellent resource on Greek Deities:

http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html


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CozyWitch

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 12:56:15 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;8371
I'd just call them the Equinoxes and Solstices, it would stop at least some confusion. W/R/T the Esbats, Hekate is associated more with the new moon than the full. If you haven't found it yet, theoi.com is an excellent resource on Greek Deities:
 
http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html

Thanks, Melamphoros.
 
I know that Hekate is associated more with the new moon and thanks for the link to theoi.com . . . Will read it later on tonight.
 
Also, does "w/r/t" mean "with regards to"?

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 01:03:24 pm »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8368
monsnoleedra . . .
 
You've impressed me with your words, but some of them I'm not familiar with, so I will point out what I didn't understand and maybe you can clarify.


Can't say nor will imply I know everything about her but will do my best to answer what I can.

Quote
First off . . . when I looked up the Hekate's wheel, I was not feeling that it was to be a part of my practice. With Hekate . . . most of my practices as far as what is on my altar will remain . . . my black and white candle, my cauldron, my abalone shell and smudge stick, my sickle, my athame, my scrying mirror, tarot cards, etc. Seeing as She is the Mistress of Magic, She would probably have me doing a lot more than what I am already.


She is a Mistress of Magics but I wouldn't just associate Magic in the modern sense.  For instance Medea was her high priestess in the story of Jason (Argonautica) yet she (Medea) was more aligned to drugs and potions than magics.  In fact depending upon the time frame Medea is either called a Witch or Sorceress in the same story.

Her association with dark magics really seem's to come into existence through curse tablets in Roman times and dark magics through the middle ages.  Think of how she is called or mentioned by Shakesphere in Macbeth.  There are a couple of good books on scribd.com that deal with curse tablets and even love tablets.
 
Quote
Second, as far as my reference . . . what are the Chaldean Chronicles? I have never heard of them, so I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean. :o Also, the Wiccan wheel (Lammas, Samhain, etc.), I don't really honor per se but I do honor the changing of the seasons (Sabbats, as I call them . . . possibly erroneously?) (Equinoxes and Solstices) and the Esbats.


Here are the most common articles from the Chaldean Chronicles that deal with Hekate:

(1) "Strophalos of Hecate" -  Hecate’s Wheel – (Chaldean_Oracles source - of Isaac Preston Cory's 1836 translation)

Verse 55. "The life-producing bosom of Hecate, that Living Flame which clothes itself in Matter to manifest Existence”

Verse 65. “The source of the Hecaté correspondeth with that of the Fontal Fathers. “

Verse 66. “From Him leap forth the Amilicti, the all-relentless thunders, and the whirlwind receiving Bosoms of the all-splendid Strength of Hecaté  Father-begotten; and He who encircleth the Brilliance of Fire; And the Strong         Spirit of the Poles, all fiery beyond”

Verse 187. “In the left side of Hecate is a fountain of Virtue, which remaineth entirely within her, not sending forth its virginity.”
 
Verse 194  "Labour about the Hecatick Strophalus"

There a series of quotes and snippets that are believed to have been written in the 2nd century.  Those then are based upon snippets or fragments from Hellenistic commentary on an unknown mystery poem equated to Chaldea (Babylon).  I've seen it listed as Chaldean Chronicles, Chaldean Oracles though the most frequent usage of it I've seen is always in one of the Satanic groupings of writtings.

In some ways its a psuedo history and covers a number of areas of the world.

Quote
I never associated the Crossroads with the "X" shaped because I was always told it was "Y" shaped and that's how it's always been for me.


I think the notion of an "X" shaped came about with a modern sense of crossroads without researching antiquity.  Of course that is my opinion only.

Melamphoros

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 01:08:50 pm »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8378

Also, does "w/r/t" mean "with regards to"?

 
It does.


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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 01:21:48 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;8379

I think the notion of an "X" shaped came about with a modern sense of crossroads without researching antiquity.  Of course that is my opinion only.

 
Something I've wondered, does it matter? Is there any inherent meaning or value to the Y shape versus the X shape? Or is the Y shape tradition only because (as you mentioned) that was the configuration of roads in the area where she was worshiped?

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2011, 01:30:03 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;8379
Can't say nor will imply I know everything about her but will do my best to answer what I can.
 

If you knew everything about Her then you would have nothing left to learn, which I think would make life boring.
 
Anyways, I read your info about the Chaldean Oracle/Chronicles but I wonder how I referenced it if I have no idea what it is. Strange. :confused:

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 01:50:30 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;8385
Something I've wondered, does it matter? Is there any inherent meaning or value to the Y shape versus the X shape? Or is the Y shape tradition only because (as you mentioned) that was the configuration of roads in the area where she was worshiped?


All that follows is just my opinon so may differ for others.

In truth I do think it matters greatly.

Hekate / Hecate is a tri-formus goddess.  In early history she a goddess over Heaven, Earth and Sea. A position and influnce so strong that I've read many historians think her cult so significant that the Olympian pantheon had to bring her in as an equal on Zeus' side where the other titans where pretty much cast out.  Even in looking at the Trojan War, she is one of the few Anatolian gods / goddesses that are not defeated or belittled by an Olympian god / goddess.  

In later history she is a tri-formus goddess in shape having three faces looking in three directions.  A form that basically stood watch at three junctures regardless of it being wilderness roads or the entry way into ones home.  Her three faces also indicating three pathways to any decession, that which you are upon and coming from, that which lies before which you shall take and that which might have been taken but wasn't.

Even in her association to her keys and the number three.  Each key used to open a specific realm or concept.  Can't recall it as a source at the moment but I recall the keys being of Silver, Bronze and Gold which again forms the base of three so closely associated to her.

In some situations you could even say she is tri-formus in her association to the moon (Selene = moon / Artemis = full or new moon / Hekate = dark moon).

In all her facets she is three fold in that she is only one of a few gods / goddess that may enter all domains and leave without assistence.  While most associated to her Chthonic role and entry and exit from Hades with Persphone it is not the only time she is seen in such a light.   Off the top of my head being the only goddess with such freedom.  

So the "Y" shape is a constant visual reminder of all the facets of her influence.  It is a reminder of what is, what might be and what could be depending upon which pathway one takes.  Even to the facet that all actions arrive at a juncture where we have three choices, to go back, to go forward and that not taken.

It also plays in the role of death.  The spirit that has purpose and direction will move on, the spirit without it will linger at the juncture, stagnat.  Remain until he/she hears the bellow of the hounds in the wilderness and drives them upon the road and makes a choice for them.

But like I said this is all my own opinion.

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 02:01:17 pm »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8390
If you knew everything about Her then you would have nothing left to learn, which I think would make life boring.
 
Anyways, I read your info about the Chaldean Oracle/Chronicles but I wonder how I referenced it if I have no idea what it is. Strange. :confused:


In truth to see her in that facet does not suprise me.  I see a lot of the current info on her that has excerts or influence from it (Chaldean Chronicles) but not referenced back to it.  A lot of Hermeticism influenced modern pagansim and western occultism, especially in the darker facets of Hekate's image.

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 02:02:44 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;8395
All that follows is just my opinon so may differ for others.

 
Thanks for your reply! It gives me much to think about.

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Re: Bumfuzzled (A Hekate Issue)
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2011, 07:30:08 pm »
Quote from: CozyWitch;8300

Now, I would never call upon Deities from other pantheons in a ritual or whatever, but how do you handle the whole "dual-pantheistic" (is that even a word?) practice that may happen?


I honor a personal thematic pantheon that spans multiple cultures, some of whom had contact in ancient times, some of whom didn't. The deities I honor sometimes work together across pantheon lines. It's also my UPG (and I don't think only mine) that "liminal", "messenger", "diplomat", and "way-opening" deities sometimes seem less concerned about pantheon lines.

That being said, one pantheon per ritual is definitely a good place to start, and possibly a good place to stay. YMMV. I will say though, that I'm not seeing anything in your description itself that's specifically "Celtic", so mixing pantheons may not be an issue. Working with a different worldview/approach? That sounds like it might be.

I'm devoted to Hekate among Others, and I approached Her first when I became pagan. A lot of what Jenett wrote resonates with my experiences.

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