Artemis?

[monsnoleedra]

.. I really find your post disrespectful. You seem to lack a real understanding of our evil feminist ways.

Does it matter that you find it disrespectful?  It's not about how you see Artemis its about how I see her and how she has shown herself to me.  It's about the relationship I have with her and what she has asked of me, demanded of me and expressed before me.

Lack of understanding?  Whose?  That is the main problem I see, for no matter what course one takes it pretty much always comes back around to the same thing person A's opinon of a thing versus person B's opinion of the same thing.

While I will not disagree that in any group there will be those who bring out the worst and bend things to their own colorful ideas. That does not mean they speak for the whole or even the majority. But in truth as SunflowerP stated you are doing the same thing you are claiming feminists are. By narrowing your focus on one small aspect & using it to support your own statements.

Ah but if I have only encountered those who speak the same line then I will by default assume all hold the same viewpoint.  Then those few that seem to fall outside of that become exceptions to the rule not the guage by which the rule is measured.

To date i'd say probably less than 1 percent of those i've meet fall into the exception of the rule.  Most of the others start in the same vein of you must be appologetic because you disagree with them.  Have to disregard your own perspective and accept that they are right because they take offense but have offered nor shown anything to dispute or change your mind.  Make assumptions of what is and what you have experienced and the degree of that experience that formed your conclusions.  Then couple it all to the notion that who ever they are speaking to should take thier word as truth and that they are the exception and not the rule.

Now perhaps it is the very word feminist itself.  There are many that I know who would never use it to describe themselves.  Never lay claim to it nor present themselves in such a way as to imply one is wrong for disagreeing with thier position or opinon.  But then again I also tend not to place them into the feminist category.  Though I do admit I have been told many I respect are feminist but not the fem-nazi that I seem to encounter more often than not.

It is like saying my favorite color is purple (which it is) that doesn't mean I ignore or hate every other color out there.

I don't ignore nor hate everyone or everything that is out there.  Yet I don't walk around assuming I am wrong and have to be appologetic because another does not like it.

I suppose that is one side affect of a military career, I don't assume someone is right or correct simply because they say so of themselves.  I tend to be more receptive of opinion and suggestion when they do not come at me as if they know it all or expect me to defer to their knowledge simply because they disagree with my position.

I can see the Goddess as an embodiment of feminism & find a deep connection through Her in that way. It doesn't mean I ignore the rest of who She is. She represents strength and freedom(among other things)- I love the image of Her running through the wild. I love the little snipit of kindof poetic info on Her here-
http://www.blueroebuck.com/artemis.html

Yet that is not what she says, shows or expects of me.  Now if I said you were less than me because of A, B or C then I would expect you to be upset or angered.  But I have not said such I said TO ME but it appears I am not allowed to make such a statement though I am expected to hear what others think.

Anyways yes I really love the site http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Artemis.html as someone else mentioned. Great site.

Theoi.com is an excellent site.

The candle colors I generally use with Artemis are white, silver, dark green or red. Depending on the type of ritual/energy I am interested in. In general white/silver though.

We're not that far off in color though I am not sure we hold the same reasons why.  I use silver or white for the moon's energies and the feminie energies.  I use dark green for the deep woods and wilds and what some might say are the chaotic energies of uncivilized nature.  Occasionally red, but always in sense of blood and birth.

[Caroline]

But then again I also tend not to place them into the feminist category.  Though I do admit I have been told many I respect are feminist but not the fem-nazi that I seem to encounter more often than not.

 
Really? You had to go there?

By using that particular terminology you just placed yourself amidst really bad company and undermined your own argument in many eyes.

[ZombyFrogg]

The candle colors I generally use with Artemis are white, silver, dark green or red. Depending on the type of ritual/energy I am interested in. In general white/silver though.

 
Thanks. Are the any specific offerings that you leave or incenses that you use? Maybe prayers or chants you might use. (doesn't have to be exactly as you use just an example or two so maybe I can write my own) If you don't mind sharing that information with me.

[Waldhexe]

Dianics- we are not men haters or against men either

Didn't mean to imply, I simply don't know enough about Dianics to say. :cool:

[Waldhexe]

It is like saying my favorite color is purple (which it is) that doesn't mean I ignore or hate every other color out there.

LOL, but wouldn't fighting every other color besides purple be the right fem-nazi thing to do? Are you sure, you're really a feminist amazon and not just a normal woman? [/sarcasm]

[caelestisraven]

Thanks. Are the any specific offerings that you leave or incenses that you use? Maybe prayers or chants you might use. (doesn't have to be exactly as you use just an example or two so maybe I can write my own) If you don't mind sharing that information with me.

 

*pout* sadly I can't use incense currently. I so miss it lol. Nothing specific though when I did. I am much more of a go with whatever feels right at the moment type of girl Offerings for Artemis I would often go with bird seed (I am wary of leaving food out for animals as it is not always safe to do so but bird seed is usually much more safer imo) plants, red juice or wine, water, blood, dance & song

I come up with alot of prayers spontaneously but I know I have some written somewhere- I just moved & alot of my stuff is still packed. If I find them soon I will post them for ya This below is all I had on my computer besides part of a Dianic Beltane ritual that I am not sure you would be interested in & a poem I wrote forever ago lol

Artemis
Untamed Maiden of the wild.
Daughter of the Moon, Sister of the Sun,
Amazon Maiden I honor you!
Wicked dancer of lunar bliss
Untamed child of natures kiss
May I find the freedom within the Forest
The spark within the Flame
The whisper within the Breeze
The sacredness within the blood of life.
I too a sister in Goddess, open and free to the spiral path.
May I be blessed with the strength and courage to reclaim my power, to be
whole unto myself & free within as well as without.
In your name I pray Goddess Artemis lead the way.

We're not that far off in color though I am not sure we hold the same reasons why. I use silver or white for the moon's energies and the feminie energies. I use dark green for the deep woods and wilds and what some might say are the chaotic energies of uncivilized nature. Occasionally red, but always in sense of blood and birth.

Actually that is pretty much true for me too. Silver for the moon, green for the wilds & nature, red for blood.

[ZombyFrogg]

*pout* sadly I can't use incense currently. I so miss it lol. Nothing specific though when I did. I am much more of a go with whatever feels right at the moment type of girl Offerings for Artemis I would often go with bird seed (I am wary of leaving food out for animals as it is not always safe to do so but bird seed is usually much more safer imo) plants, red juice or wine, water, blood, dance & song

I come up with alot of prayers spontaneously but I know I have some written somewhere- I just moved & alot of my stuff is still packed. If I find them soon I will post them for ya This below is all I had on my computer besides part of a Dianic Beltane ritual that I am not sure you would be interested in & a poem I wrote forever ago lol

Artemis
Untamed Maiden of the wild.
Daughter of the Moon, Sister of the Sun,
Amazon Maiden I honor you!
Wicked dancer of lunar bliss
Untamed child of natures kiss
May I find the freedom within the Forest
The spark within the Flame
The whisper within the Breeze
The sacredness within the blood of life.
I too a sister in Goddess, open and free to the spiral path.
May I be blessed with the strength and courage to reclaim my power, to be
whole unto myself & free within as well as without.
In your name I pray Goddess Artemis lead the way.

 
Honestly I am interested in anything anyone is willing to share. I am still learning so I am open to whatever advice/knowledge anyone is willing to give. Thank you.

[caelestisraven]

Didn't mean to imply, I simply don't know enough about Dianics to say. :cool:

lol its ok. It is a common misconception. I just try to correct it when I see it

Does it matter that you find it disrespectful? It's not about how you see Artemis its about how I see her and how she has shown herself to me. It's about the relationship I have with her and what she has asked of me, demanded of me and expressed before me.

Lack of understanding? Whose? That is the main problem I see, for no matter what course one takes it pretty much always comes back around to the same thing person A's opinon of a thing versus person B's opinion of the same thing.

I apologize if I was not clear in my response. I wasn't speaking about what you wrote on Artemis. I was speaking only to the point on what you claimed about feminists.
I do take offense to your remarks on feminism and our views, mostly because you are wrong and spreading misconceptions. I find it disrespectful to my path & my views.

I have no issue with how you view the Goddess. I believe it is personal and that we all see the world uniquely and as such see the Goddess & find our connection with Her uniquely. To each their own. It really has no effect on me & vice versa. Though I don't really see it all that too much differently. My only issue is that I don't like my path being called out over something untrue. As having some evil agenda over how we view the Goddesses.

Standing outside the circle of a group it is very easy to hear things out of context or to just not understand what is going on within it. I really have no clue how you got the ideas about it that you have. Perhaps you met some crazies or just misunderstood our ways, perhaps a mix of both. Misconceptions are easy to get started & spread like wildfire because of this. I would much rather help someone to understand my path and the truth about it though.

You seem to agree that we all can have our own views of the Goddess so I do not understand what your issue is?

Ah but if I have only encountered those who speak the same line then I will by default assume all hold the same viewpoint. Then those few that seem to fall outside of that become exceptions to the rule not the guage by which the rule is measured.

No I would expect someone to be able to know that no matter what that a small voice doesn't speak for the whole. This is a horrid cop out excuse for prejudice. It is the same thing we hear all the time about gays, minorities, & other religions.... well all the ones I met were like this so they all must be right? If I claimed every Christian I met was just close minded and the type to burn me at the stake people would laugh at me for one & correct me that no even if the only ones I met were like that, not all Christians are and alot of them are very nice. It is the same thing. I believe you would agree with that so why can't you see that even if every feminist you met was a man hating nut job that no we are all not & even much more likely most of us are not.

Now perhaps it is the very word feminist itself. There are many that I know who would never use it to describe themselves. Never lay claim to it nor present themselves in such a way as to imply one is wrong for disagreeing with thier position or opinon. But then again I also tend not to place them into the feminist category. Though I do admit I have been told many I respect are feminist but not the fem-nazi that I seem to encounter more often than not.

I am not sure what you meant completely here. Are you saying that if someone called themselves a feminist but didn't show the mind set of what you would consider a fem-nazi would you not consider them a feminist at all?

So in essence saying that you feel all feminists are really fem-nazis? And if not then not true feminists? What exactly do you mean by fem-nazi?

[monsnoleedra]

.. I apologize if I was not clear in my response. I wasn't speaking about what you wrote on Artemis. I was speaking only to the point on what you claimed about feminists.

Ah I withdraw my statement then for I was reading it based upon my relationship with Artemis not how I was being preceived in speaking on feminist.

I do take offense to your remarks on feminism and our views, mostly because you are wrong and spreading misconceptions. I find it disrespectful to my path & my views.

For me I see two differing points here.  I do not speak on Dianic or reclamist beliefs or practices.  What occurs within those circles is not of my first hand knowledge so I try to avoid speaking on it.

With regard to feminism when I do speak it is based upon my experiences.  So to say it is wrong or spreading misconceptions is valid only to your view point of what is right or wrong.  Without having been present for my experiences you can not say what I saw was right or wrong or drew an incorrect conclusion from it.

My only issue is that I don't like my path being called out over something untrue. As having some evil agenda over how we view the Goddesses.

As a pathway as I stated I don't say what it is for I do not know.

Misconceptions are easy to get started & spread like wildfire because of this. I would much rather help someone to understand my path and the truth about it though.

I suppose right there you have stated the biggest difference between Feminist and those I know.  Those I have known and know today who might fall into a feminist mold don't start off with the attack upon a person but try to speak to the issue.

As my sister would say you have those that work for the betterment of women, men and humanity as a whole.  Then you have the harpies who hear the word feminist and come in screaming, pissing and crapping on everything in the hopes of mis-directing.  The issue at hand lost as all that matters is their persception of the word.

No I would expect someone to be able to know that no matter what that a small voice doesn't speak for the whole.

When the greater whole doesn't speak up the voice that bellows is seen as the face of the whole.

Its like the issue a few years ago where a woman burnt styrafoam and other trash then claimed it was her right as a Wiccan to do so in ritual.  Her voice became the face of Wicca for many and it took a lot of other's speaking out to difuse the situation.  Those who defened the police spoke from positions of authority and knowledge and used thier knowledge to say why she was wrong.  Those who pissed in the wind and claimed she was right only saw how she was being confrunted because she was a pagan.

Use the word feminist and its like that. The group that comes screaming because you said something they disagree with and it must be anti-feminist in nature.  Then those that speak to the issue and make it clear but do not hide behind the feminist title.

There-in I suppose is where most of the un-titled feminist I know fall in.  As such I tend not to lump them in with the feminist movement.

It is the same thing. I believe you would agree with that so why can't you see that even if every feminist you met was a man hating nut job that no we are all not & even much more likely most of us are not.

But I didn't say all feminist I said the ones I met.  I stated what I saw them do and how it was perceived and influenced me in the write up I provided.  How their view points were pushed and how historical data was modified to support thier positions.

I didn't day all, I didn't say Dianic's only, I didn't say Reclaimist only just the ones I saw.

I am not sure what you meant completely here. Are you saying that if someone called themselves a feminist but didn't show the mind set of what you would consider a fem-nazi would you not consider them a feminist at all?

I probably should clarify I use Fem-nazi in the manner my sisters do.  As such a fem-nazi is one who missed the feminist movement and is trying to lay claim to it.  They are the bra-burners who confront issues that mean nothing in the greater purpose of bringing the genders together in mututal respect, equality and understanding.  Typically like the harpies in the original Jason and the Argonauts movie they come swooping in when the word Feminist is used and attacking the user because it was not done in a manner that supported thier agenda and perspective.  Frequently supported by snide comments, enuendo and how the person speaking must be anti-feminism and a misogynist.

I can't say I wouldn't consider them feminist other than they are not feminist as I understand.  I do admit perhaps those I know who would fall beneath the banner do not use it due to the negative connetations it implies.  The anti-male positions and many of the negative sterotypes that make of the face of the movement.

I asked my sister's about that and all three were adamit that "Feminist" of the 60's and 70's were one thing.  They faught for women's rights and such but it was always about equality with and between the genders.  Equal pay for equal jobs, equal benefits, etc.  Acceptance and recogniztion of the differences and the so called mysteries of womanhood and manhood and how they compliment one another not one above or superior to the other.

Not the rising of one at the expense of the other.  Nor the implied belief that one needs to make amends or change their mysteries and notions to be accepted by the other.

But perhaps that is part of the problem as well.

But as I stated earlier a lot of the women I know online and off line tell me if there is a fem-nazi in the area i'll find them.  They are usually the harpies who come swopping in when the word feminist is used in any content that doesn't meet their definations.

[monsnoleedra]

...

Not specific to this response but used to continue

One book you maybe interested in is Artemis, Virgin Goddess Of The Sun And Moon by Sorita D'Este.  It's a good read and has a lot of indepth research on Artemis.  Has a going price around 25.00 though it might be found for more or less.  I got mine off Ebay at 25.00 so can't say for sure what Amazon or other might have it at.

[ZombyFrogg]

Not specific to this response but used to continue

One book you maybe interested in is Artemis, Virgin Goddess Of The Sun And Moon by Sorita D'Este.  It's a good read and has a lot of indepth research on Artemis.  Has a going price around 25.00 though it might be found for more or less.  I got mine off Ebay at 25.00 so can't say for sure what Amazon or other might have it at.

 
Ok, I will look into it.