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Author Topic: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?  (Read 1784 times)

Materialist

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Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« on: October 07, 2012, 01:17:10 pm »
The proper adjective ought to be "mythological," but I hope you all understand me. If not, I'm talking about saints deemed by historians to never have existed. St. Barbara, for example.

The reason I bring the matter up is that my gnosis tells me these are "new gods," or, as I like to say, to differentiate them from the DC Comics characters, Niwe Godas, in Anglo-Saxon.

Well, I came across an article in an archaeological journal that gives a list of female Anglo-Saxon saints that never existed. There are not that many. Most saints were real people, optimistically, though, maybe ten percent (just whipping it out there, never counted them all yet) don't have enough evidence either way or are pure myth.

I'm wondering if anyone is interested in the list I found, with notes on their legends and name meanings I was able to hunt down. Is this something pagans are interested in?

Finn

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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 01:18:57 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;76074

I'm wondering if anyone is interested in the list I found, with notes on their legends and name meanings I was able to hunt down.


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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 05:55:52 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;76074
I'm wondering if anyone is interested in the list I found, with notes on their legends and name meanings I was able to hunt down. Is this something pagans are interested in?

I would be.
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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 06:15:34 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;76086
I would be.

 
Add me to that list

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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 07:22:21 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;76089
Add me to that list

 


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Materialist

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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 08:20:53 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;76090


Sunflower


Looks like my earlier answer to you all didn't go through, so I'm rewriting my answer.

Source: Yorkshire Archaeological Journal vol. 76, 2004, "The Saint of Middleham and Giggleswick," Heather Edwards, p.143-4.

The list:

Aebbe: an abbess of Coldingham in Berkshire who had her nuns cut off their upper lips so that they wouldn't be raped by Vikings, who burned them to death.

Aethelthryth: a hermit living in Crowland, Lincolnshire, an island in the Fens. She had a shrine there, but it was destroyed by Vikings in 870. Her name means "noble strength."

Bega: lived in St Bees, Cumberland. The original form of her name is Beag, which means "ring." Her relic was a bracelet or arm ring that parishioners swore oaths upon. Later legends say she was an Irishwoman who moved to England to escape a marriage. Still has a church there, I think.

Blida: the mother of St. Walstan turns out to be a river, originally spelled Blithe, meaning "the gentle/pleasant one." Several place-names derive from this, but legends say she lived in Bawburgh, Norfolk.

Ealhburh: her name looks like "fortified temple," ealh+burh. The only thing known about her is that she had her husband's foundation of canons moved to her nunnery.

Judith and Salome: legend says they moved to Bavaria, Germany, and became hermits near Ober Altaich.

Mindred: also called Wendred(a). Has a holy well in Exning, known for healing wens, a type of skin tumor. Still has a church there. Legend says her body was kept in a golden coffin, carried into battle by warriors, who lost it in one of their skirmishes. The second element of her name means "strength," and could Wen- have something to do with that skin tumor? The word comes from the same root as "wound," so her name could mean "strength against wounds."

Monegund: and unknown saint buried in an unknown place called Wetedun. She may be the same as the Frankish Monegund, whose relics may have been translated there.

Osanna: legend says she's buried in Howdon, East Yorkshire, and whenever someone in an inappropriate sexual relationship sits on her gravestone that individual is whipped by a mysterious force.

Pandonia: also called Pandwyna. Moved to Eltisley, Cambridgeshire to escape a marriage.

Rayne: used to have a church in Crewkerne, Somerset, now there's just a hill named after her. The original form of her name is Hraegene, meaning "shelter,eminence."

Sidwell/Sativola: legend says she lived in Exeter, Devon, and was beheaded by scythe-wielding mowers, causing a holy well to form from her blood. Still venerated there. The original form of her name was something like Sidefulsithe or Sidefulwella, "modest/virtuous scythe or well."

White: lived in Whitchurch, Dorset, from which she gets her name, in Anglo-Saxon Hwitcirice.

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Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 02:28:23 am »
Quote from: Materialist;76094

Sidwell/Sativola: legend says she lived in Exeter, Devon, and was beheaded by scythe-wielding mowers, causing a holy well to form from her blood. Still venerated there. The original form of her name was something like Sidefulsithe or Sidefulwella, "modest/virtuous scythe or well."

White: lived in Whitchurch, Dorset, from which she gets her name, in Anglo-Saxon Hwitcirice.

Interesting. I wonder how many of these were pagan gods before they were saints. Anyone with a holy well rings bells for me. I honour St Catherine, who is probably based on Hypatia, possibly in combination with ancient god(s).
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Materialist

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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2012, 10:59:49 am »
Quote from: Sophia Catherine;76108
Interesting. I wonder how many of these were pagan gods before they were saints. Anyone with a holy well rings bells for me. I honour St Catherine, who is probably based on Hypatia, possibly in combination with ancient god(s).


A holy well can only be used as evidence of paganism if it was built during pagan times. A lot were built a thousand years after that.

Now, which of these women were possible goddesses? Well, we must see if any of these women were venerated by Anglo-Saxons. This whittles the list down some.
Sidwell, White, Mindred, Aethelthryth, Rayne were mentioned during this time. I think we can include Ealhburh simply do to the oldness of her name. The rest pose problems.

Bega and Pandonia: the areas of their cults had religious structures on them during the right time, but Bega was not mentioned until 1135, and Pandonia not until 1230, when a church was dedicated to her.

Osanna: the only reference to her is by Geraldus Cambrensis in the 13th c.

Aebbe: the only reference to her is by Matthew Paris in the 14th c.

Judith and Salome: their oldest legend dates to the 12th-13th c.

Blida: only known from the lives of St. Walstan, and his oldest vita dates to the 15th c., written by John Capgrave.

Materialist

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Re: Are Pagans Interested in Fictional Christian Saints?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 06:14:48 pm »
Quote from: Materialist;76454
A holy well can only be used as evidence of paganism if it was built during pagan times. A lot were built a thousand years after that.

Now, which of these women were possible goddesses? Well, we must see if any of these women were venerated by Anglo-Saxons. This whittles the list down some.
Sidwell, White, Mindred, Aethelthryth, Rayne were mentioned during this time. I think we can include Ealhburh simply do to the oldness of her name. The rest pose problems.

Bega and Pandonia: the areas of their cults had religious structures on them during the right time, but Bega was not mentioned until 1135, and Pandonia not until 1230, when a church was dedicated to her.

Osanna: the only reference to her is by Geraldus Cambrensis in the 13th c.

Aebbe: the only reference to her is by Matthew Paris in the 14th c.

Judith and Salome: their oldest legend dates to the 12th-13th c.

Blida: only known from the lives of St. Walstan, and his oldest vita dates to the 15th c., written by John Capgrave.


Here are the other sources I used in compiling this information:

The Book of Saints, ed. Dom Basil Watkins
stbees.org.uk/publications/bega/index.htm
Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names, A. D. Mills
http://www.exningparishchurch.net/history_village.htm
Anglo-Saxon England, volume 7, ed. Peter Clemoes
Landscapes of Monastic Foundation, Time Pestell
dailysaint.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/june-29-st-salome-and-st-judith-of-niederaltaich/
Studies in Church Dedications, Frances Egerten Arnold-Forster
Three Eleventh-Century Anglo-Latin Saints Lives, didn't notice an author's name.

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