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Author Topic: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)  (Read 6387 times)

Sage

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 03:30:14 pm »
Quote from: Shine;90819
. For example, in Kemetic mythology, many solar deities (but especially Atum and Aten) can be thought of as "mother-father". Akhenaten called the Aten by this phrase, actually. While I can't remember if Atum received the same title, he was sometimes shown in iconography as a male with female breasts. Something to think about.

 
Nit too, right? I seem to remember Nit being referred to as a Creator-Creatrix mix at one point...
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Shine

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 03:39:24 pm »
Quote from: Sage;90820
Nit too, right? I seem to remember Nit being referred to as a Creator-Creatrix mix at one point...

 
Yeah, I think Nit has a male-female syncretization, too, but I can't remember what it is. She was eventually identified with Athena. Nit always gave me Athena vibes, so much so that I can't tell the difference between the two unless I tap into Nit's creative aspects.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Gilbride

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 03:43:43 pm »
Quote from: Shine;90805
Both. The second list would be much, much more difficult (and possibly contentious) to compile, however. Personally, I'm most interested in the Lady of the Stars/Brighid of the Forge (as spoken of on the archive boards) aspect of all of this,


Sirona would have to be on the "family" list- her name could be literally translated as 'Lady of the Stars,' and she is associated with snakes, water and healing just as Brighid is.

For the more contentious "cosmic" list, I see Kuan Yin and Sarasvati as having strong links to the same energy, along with Sophia in the Gnostic/Jewish/Christian traditions and various other European goddesses such as Paivatar (Finnish sun goddess) and Vesna (Slavic spring goddesses).

Nyktipolos

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2013, 04:09:05 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;90811
About the Cailleach:  I personally have never been able to connect to Her.  That makes me think that She is not, actually as closely related to Brighid (to "*my*" Brighid, anyway) as the stories suggest.

 
I can't remember if this was on the public boards or not on the old forum, but my connection of Brighid and Cailleach was influenced partially by words I had heard from Dionysos years before, and my own UPG. But it wasn't that they were the same, more like... Divine Opposites. Brighid is the stars, Cailleach is the space between the stars. It led to a lot of further UPG that I have on the both of them, wherein both are required for creation. But there was a lot of muddy mixing that I was never able really to suss out, and makes me doubt myself from time to time (although, I've gotten a firm "you're on the right path" from Dionysos with it, so).
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
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Aster Breo

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2013, 05:26:48 pm »
Quote from: Sage;90816

Do you focus on a particular culture when researching Brighid (Irish vs Scottish, f'ex)?


I have mostly focused on the Irish lore and traditions.  I've read the relevant parts of the Carmina Gadelica, which is Scottish, but not much else in the Scottish realm, and I'm aware of the Welsh presence of Ffraid.  Besides a fair amount of past research on Sulis, I'm currently getting a little into the British lore, specifically around Brighid's connection to Avalon.  

All of this is very slow going, since I have HUGE issues reading non-fiction.

Quote from: Sage;90816

I'd love to hear more of your experiences/UPG/research on Brighid and Danu. When the LotS thing was going on back in 2010, I had a strange trinity going on between Brighid, Danu, and tM as goddesses/Forces who had some pretty slippery identities. All of that was UPG, and partially an attempt on my part to reconcile the fact Brighid is said to be a daughter of either Danu or tM in different myths.


I'm not sure I can articulate it.  And I haven't really had much in the way of experience specifically with Danu.  It's more of a feeling/suspicion that Danu is part of this.

The confusion in the lore doesn't help, of course.

And the more I think about these things, the softer my polytheism gets. Sometimes.  

Ya know?  ;)

Quote from: Sage;90816

I don't know Suale, but I can definitely see Aine and Sunna in this group. (I keep thinking "constellation" as this type of grouping, tbh.)


"Constellation" is a very fitting word.

Quote from: Sage;90816

Possibly, instead of "these gals are definitely in the group, these gals might possibly be", you might be talking about different levels or strengths of association? For example, Sulis to you is Brighid, Sunna is a close relative, Bast is further away in relation but still related due to similar purviews? (Or did I just put words in your mouth?)


Mmmmmm...  Maybe....  I'm not at all sure we have the vocabulary to accurately describe this -- or even if we can adequately wrap our brains around the ideas.  I think there are ways that deities are connected/related/linked that are alien to how humans think about these things.

I sort of feel like each of these goddesses is another "face" or aspect or facet of one single being, but I also, simultaneously feel that they are separate, independent beings.  I'm beginning to suspect that there is some way for both of those things to be equally true.  And possibly ALSO equally false.

Quote from: Sage;90816

Do you consider Brigantia to be covered under Brighid's name, or do you consider Her to be separate?


Separate.  I know there are may people who consider Brigantia to simply be the British name for Brighid.  I haven't gotten that.  Actually, I haven't had any luck at connecting with Brigantia.  But that might just be a failing or misunderstanding on my part.

Quote from: Sage;90816

Also, I think I can grok Athena as being a close relative. Women's interests, justice (particularly related to law and equality), warfare, healing, and some solar/light aspects. (I'm thinking of Athena's epithet as Glaukopis, grey/flashing-eyed, though maybe that's a stretch.)

 
I know next to nothing about Athena, but that sounds very intriguing.  

Can you point me to resources on Her?
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Aster Breo

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2013, 05:28:58 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;90825
Sirona would have to be on the "family" list- her name could be literally translated as 'Lady of the Stars,' and she is associated with snakes, water and healing just as Brighid is.


Yes!  I knew I was forgetting someone.

Also on the "possibly" list:  Rosmerta

Quote from: Gilbride;90825

For the more contentious "cosmic" list, I see Kuan Yin and Sarasvati as having strong links to the same energy, along with Sophia in the Gnostic/Jewish/Christian traditions and various other European goddesses such as Paivatar (Finnish sun goddess) and Vesna (Slavic spring goddesses).

 
I've read a little about Kuan Yin and agree that she (he???) should be on the list.  

I don't know anything at all about Paivatar or Vesna.

Resources on them?
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Aster Breo

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2013, 05:30:28 pm »
Quote from: Shine;90823
Yeah, I think Nit has a male-female syncretization, too, but I can't remember what it is. She was eventually identified with Athena. Nit always gave me Athena vibes, so much so that I can't tell the difference between the two unless I tap into Nit's creative aspects.

 
Can someone expand on Nit, please?  Resources?

I need to learn more about the Kemetic deities.  Like I don't have enough reading to do.  Sigh...
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Aster Breo

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2013, 05:33:01 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;90828
I can't remember if this was on the public boards or not on the old forum, but my connection of Brighid and Cailleach was influenced partially by words I had heard from Dionysos years before, and my own UPG. But it wasn't that they were the same, more like... Divine Opposites. Brighid is the stars, Cailleach is the space between the stars.

 
This is interesting.  I think of Brighid as BOTH the stars and the vastness between the stars.

I feel like I should have more to say about this, but I don't right now.  :ashamed:

And...  Is it just me, or is this conversation starting to feel like the early LotS conversations?
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Tana

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2013, 05:41:42 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;90845

And...  Is it just me, or is this conversation starting to feel like the early LotS conversations?

 
*snickers*
I am just asking myself half the evening, if this will turn into another moment of hot white faith.

May I add to the discussion, just to keep the variety open for all to ponder and play with:
the Feri Stargoddess, the Thelemic Nut and what Orion Foxwood calls The Utterer.
\'You had to repay, good or bad. There was more than one type of obligation.
That’s what people never really understood.….Things had to balance.
You couldn’t set out to be a good witch or a bad witch. It never worked out for long.
All you could try to be was a witch, as hard as you could.\'
Terry Pratchett \'Lords and Ladies\'

Confuzzled and proud. :p

Shine

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2013, 05:48:06 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;90842
Can someone expand on Nit, please?  Resources?

I need to learn more about the Kemetic deities.  Like I don't have enough reading to do.  Sigh...

 
I still haven't been able to find who Nit's male syncretization is, but I did just read a little about her from Wilkinson's book.

Nit is an extremely ancient goddess. Some Kemetic texts hold that she was the divine demiurge who created the sun god. She could be described as weaving the universe into creation every day. Through her connection with weaving, she could also be associated with mummy wrappings and other such linens.

She also had mother goddess associations and was later even called mother of humans. This was *much* later. Her motherly aspects balance out her more androgynous aspects. But the motherly aspects connected her with Mehet-Weret, a primeval bovine goddess who was sometimes connected with Het-Heru. Mehet-Weret is said to have lifted the newborn sun god on her horns.

Nit also has warrior or hunter connections, along with connections to the Eye of Ra. She was typically shown with a weaving loom atop her head, but it wasn't uncommon to see crossed arrows and bows instead. Some of her epithets in this regard are "ruler of arrows" and "mistress of the bow".
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Aster Breo

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A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2013, 05:48:10 pm »
Quote from: Tana;90847

May I add to the discussion, just to keep the variety open for all to ponder and play with:
the Feri Stargoddess, the Thelemic Nut and what Orion Foxwood calls The Utterer.

Sigh.  More research.  Thanks a lot, Tana.

My Amazon cart already has 300 books in it.
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Shine

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2013, 05:49:49 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;90845
And...  Is it just me, or is this conversation starting to feel like the early LotS conversations?

Having not been here during those conversations, I can't say. What I can say is this thread--and the similar threads that have preceded it--has helped me come to an understanding about Bast I never would have reached through scholarship or solitary UPG.

So, thanks to everyone who doesn't mind sharing their thoughts. :)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 05:50:14 pm by Shine »
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Gilbride

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2013, 05:54:17 pm »
Quote from: Sage;90816
Do you consider Brigantia to be covered under Brighid's name, or do you consider Her to be separate?


I personally see a strong connection here, due to the fact that the tribe that worshiped Brigantia (the Brigantes) had a large colony in Leinster, center of later Brighid lore. However, I think Brigantia was distinctly more martial due to her role as their tribal goddess.

Sage

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Re: A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2013, 05:57:48 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;90845
And...  Is it just me, or is this conversation starting to feel like the early LotS conversations?

LET ME GET MY POMPOMS TO CHEER US ON!

:lub: That's the closest emoticon I can find. SPG! SPG! Eye-of-Ra-Ra SPG!

On a more serious note, I'll look through my more academic sources upstairs for some info on Athena. Until then, I'll nudge you toward Wikipedia and Theoi.com. As for Nit (AKA "Neith" to the Greeks) all I have to share with you is, again, Wikipedia and the entry on Nit on the House of Netjer page.

Now that I think about it, here's what Neos Alexandria has to say about Athena too.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 09:59:15 pm by SunflowerP »
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

Sage and Starshine (my spiritual blog): last updated 2/25.
Friday Otherfaith Blogging: last updated 2/27
Join the Emboatening Crew over on Kiva! Emboatening the boatless since Opet 2013.

Aster Breo

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A wild UPG appears! (Sulis and water deities in general)
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2013, 05:58:11 pm »
Quote from: Gilbride;90852
I personally see a strong connection here, due to the fact that the tribe that worshiped Brigantia (the Brigantes) had a large colony in Leinster, center of later Brighid lore. However, I think Brigantia was distinctly more martial due to her role as their tribal goddess.

I think Brigantia might be *connected* to Brighid.  But I don't think they're the same entity, like (I believe) Brighid and Sulis are.

If that makes any sense...
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

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