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Author Topic: Not sure who, which one? Both?  (Read 1214 times)

Jainarayan

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Not sure who, which one? Both?
« on: October 16, 2017, 01:05:17 pm »
Some people here may know I was formerly known as Thorbjorn in my Heathenry days. For reasons not relevant to this post, I returned to Hinduism. Yet I still feel an affinity for Thor, a deep affinity. Our personalities are very much alike: hot-tempered but calming down quickly like a brief thunderstorm; not always the brightest bulb on the Yule tree; compassionate and loyal; brash; often preferring the brute force method over diplomacy (diplomacy is something which neither of us excels at); often uncertain of him-/myself and insecure. As when he was worried the other gods would think him "unmanly" for wearing a wedding dress. One story I read somewhere adds that he was told to shave off his beard, which really pissed him off. Same here, my beard goes to my death with me. But Thor has a bravery I wish I had.

Hanuman is also a god I feel a very close affinity for. Hanuman is brave, loyal times infinity, clever, strong. Both are gods of strength to whom I've made a promise to get back into shape, lose this accursed weight I've packed on, and gain my strength and muscle size back. Not to mention stop feeling sorry for myself and just cowboy up. I'm not exactly sure which of them has been helping me. Maybe both?

I don't worship Thor the way I used to. My Heathen shrine was dedicated to him, but now because I've re-established my Hindu shrine, I have only a small place on my dresser set aside for Thor's statue, a bottle of rain water, and a couple of candles I occasionally light. I'd like to start making more regular offerings and prayers; ideally I'd like to make a small shrine for both Thor and Hanuman. I don't think it would be a problem for either one of them; even Krishna says if a person desires to worship some deities, and does so with faith and sincerity, he'll strengthen that faith for the person.

But anyway, do you think it could be both of them teaming up to help me in my  fitness and strength endeavor? Anyone see a problem I don't with a co-mingled shrine? I would not make offerings of meat or alcohol in a co-mingled shrine because it's not the Hindu way, but I'm sure Thor would appreciate other types of offerings, even just the lit candles, incense and my devotions. Anyone ever have experience with more than one god/dess assisting them in an endeavor? Much of this is probably UPG and even a bit of MUS, but all thoughts are welcome. :)
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 03:45:52 pm »

But anyway, do you think it could be both of them teaming up to help me in my  fitness and strength endeavor? Anyone see a problem I don't with a co-mingled shrine? I would not make offerings of meat or alcohol in a co-mingled shrine because it's not the Hindu way, but I'm sure Thor would appreciate other types of offerings, even just the lit candles, incense and my devotions. Anyone ever have experience with more than one god/dess assisting them in an endeavor? Much of this is probably UPG and even a bit of MUS, but all thoughts are welcome. :)

I personally see no problems with honoring both deities, especially since I don't see Thor or Hanuman have conflicting energies. We are drawn to certain deities for whatever reason and build relationships. If you feel a strong connection to both, then honor or worship both in a way that is meaningful to you and within your own personal practice.
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Jainarayan

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 04:35:46 pm »
I personally see no problems with honoring both deities, especially since I don't see Thor or Hanuman have conflicting energies. We are drawn to certain deities for whatever reason and build relationships. If you feel a strong connection to both, then honor or worship both in a way that is meaningful to you and within your own personal practice.

Thanks... that's what I've been thinking. That's an interesting thought, and I think you're right: "I don't see Thor or Hanuman have conflicting energies". As a team, when Thor would be ready to bash, Hanuman would take a more clever approach. They'd be not unlike Thor and Loki, but without Loki's duplicity and penchant for making things worse.

I thought about this in the past but it didn't feel right at the time. I got a feeling of "don't do it", but there's something different about it now. I probably won't dismantle or supplant my Hindu shrine, but I may just get an additional statue or picture of Hanuman to enshrine with Thor. This could be my shrine to strength.
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 02:28:03 am »
Anyone ever have experience with more than one god/dess assisting them in an endeavor?

Heck, yes, frequently, and not limited by culture-of-origin lines. This is in fact why I consider my personal pantheon a pantheon, not just 'the deities I work with': they interact with each other and team up on things.


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Jainarayan

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 09:15:29 am »
Heck, yes, frequently, and not limited by culture-of-origin lines. This is in fact why I consider my personal pantheon a pantheon, not just 'the deities I work with': they interact with each other and team up on things.


I never looked at it that way. Sometimes we think that it's just one-on-one: us and a god/dess.

Thanks!  :)
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

Hariti

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 09:43:01 pm »

I don't worship Thor the way I used to. My Heathen shrine was dedicated to him, but now because I've re-established my Hindu shrine, I have only a small place on my dresser set aside for Thor's statue, a bottle of rain water, and a couple of candles I occasionally light. I'd like to start making more regular offerings and prayers; ideally I'd like to make a small shrine for both Thor and Hanuman. I don't think it would be a problem for either one of them; even Krishna says if a person desires to worship some deities, and does so with faith and sincerity, he'll strengthen that faith for the person.

But anyway, do you think it could be both of them teaming up to help me in my  fitness and strength endeavor? Anyone see a problem I don't with a co-mingled shrine? I would not make offerings of meat or alcohol in a co-mingled shrine because it's not the Hindu way, but I'm sure Thor would appreciate other types of offerings, even just the lit candles, incense and my devotions. Anyone ever have experience with more than one god/dess assisting them in an endeavor? Much of this is probably UPG and even a bit of MUS, but all thoughts are welcome.

The underlined portion seems to capture my opinion best. If you have been *worshiping both* of them, there is probably a good chance that *both are helping* you. I don't know much about Thor, but Hanuman, or any other Hindu God, is not going to be opposed to working with other Gods to help you. Gods co-operating is a big part of the Hindu tradition, and isn't an unusual idea or foreign concept. I think both Gods could be helpful for your desire to become physically healthy, based on what little I know about Thor, and my understanding of Hanuman. 
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Jainarayan

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2017, 12:03:30 pm »
The underlined portion seems to capture my opinion best. If you have been *worshiping both* of them, there is probably a good chance that *both are helping* you. I don't know much about Thor, but Hanuman, or any other Hindu God, is not going to be opposed to working with other Gods to help you. Gods co-operating is a big part of the Hindu tradition, and isn't an unusual idea or foreign concept. I think both Gods could be helpful for your desire to become physically healthy, based on what little I know about Thor, and my understanding of Hanuman.

Both Thor and Hanuman are pretty chill. Hanuman is clever and mischievous, but in a fun non-malicious way, unlike Loki. Hanuman got his name and the scar on his chin because when he was a child he thought the sun was a huge mango, and tried to grab it. Indra got pissed and hurled a lightning bolt hitting Hanuman on the chin. Btw, I don't think Indra and Thor are the same god because their personalities are very different.

Most of the Hindu gods are chill (some can get testy at times, but usually with good reason and having been seriously provoked). The opposite can be said for the Norse gods... most of them can be kind of testy and demanding at times. Maybe because of the harsh region and environment their followers come from. Frigga (and her handmaidens), Thor and Heimdall are probably the most chill of the major Æsir. Njörðr, Idunn and Bragi are also pretty chill.

I've started wearing my Mjöllnir pendant again, along with my tulsi kanthi (neck beads) for Vishnu, and a silver on a silver chain. I don't wear Mjöllnir on a leather string out of respect for Vishnu and the tulsi kanthi. So far I don't feel anything negative. I said my hammer-donning prayers to Thor this morning. I'm going to also write up a set of morning prayers to Ganesha, Thor, Hanuman and Krishna, to start the day.
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

Hariti

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2017, 02:25:19 pm »
Both Thor and Hanuman are pretty chill. Hanuman is clever and mischievous, but in a fun non-malicious way, unlike Loki. Hanuman got his name and the scar on his chin because when he was a child he thought the sun was a huge mango, and tried to grab it. Indra got pissed and hurled a lightning bolt hitting Hanuman on the chin. Btw, I don't think Indra and Thor are the same god because their personalities are very different.

Most of the Hindu gods are chill (some can get testy at times, but usually with good reason and having been seriously provoked). The opposite can be said for the Norse gods... most of them can be kind of testy and demanding at times. Maybe because of the harsh region and environment their followers come from. Frigga (and her handmaidens), Thor and Heimdall are probably the most chill of the major Æsir. Njörðr, Idunn and Bragi are also pretty chill.

I've started wearing my Mjöllnir pendant again, along with my tulsi kanthi (neck beads) for Vishnu, and a silver on a silver chain. I don't wear Mjöllnir on a leather string out of respect for Vishnu and the tulsi kanthi. So far I don't feel anything negative. I said my hammer-donning prayers to Thor this morning. I'm going to also write up a set of morning prayers to Ganesha, Thor, Hanuman and Krishna, to start the day.

I don't mix non-Hindu Gods into my prayers, but that is *only* because I am not drawn to any of them. I would not object to it in principle. I prey too Ganesha, Shiva, Krishna/Rama/Vishnu, and Kali every day, often in the same breath. Those are just the God who I address on a daily basis, there are lots more who I address situationally.

If I am worried about the weather, I pray to Indra. If I am worried about fire, or trying to start one, I pray to Agni. If I am worried about snake bites (a real concern in rural KY), I pray to Manasa. So yeah, I don't stick to the formula of "only pray to your Ishta-Devata" philosophy, nor to One-God-Bhakti. I've never had any bad results from praying to multiple Gods.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Jainarayan

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 03:16:52 pm »
I don't mix non-Hindu Gods into my prayers, but that is *only* because I am not drawn to any of them. I would not object to it in principle. I prey too Ganesha, Shiva, Krishna/Rama/Vishnu, and Kali every day, often in the same breath. Those are just the God who I address on a daily basis, there are lots more who I address situationally.

This set of prayers would be addressed to each of them individually. I would probably use English instead of Sanskrit... I don't know any prayers to Thor in Sanskrit.  :P  Though I might be able to compose something using the gayatri meter. But I could just see the look on Thor's face, like "wtf!!??"  :o

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If I am worried about the weather, I pray to Indra. If I am worried about fire, or trying to start one, I pray to Agni. If I am worried about snake bites (a real concern in rural KY), I pray to Manasa. So yeah, I don't stick to the formula of "only pray to your Ishta-Devata" philosophy, nor to One-God-Bhakti. I've never had any bad results from praying to multiple Gods.

That's indeed the usual approach. In temple people go from shrine to shrine and appear to be praying. They spend more time there than would account for just reverence to the god/dess. Most of the time I give a namaskar to each deity, but I sometimes spend more time at the shrine of a god whose help I'm particularly desirous of.
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

Megatherium

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 03:18:40 pm »
Some people here may know I was formerly known as Thorbjorn in my Heathenry days. For reasons not relevant to this post, I returned to Hinduism. Yet I still feel an affinity for Thor, a deep affinity. Our personalities are very much alike: hot-tempered but calming down quickly like a brief thunderstorm; not always the brightest bulb on the Yule tree; compassionate and loyal; brash; often preferring the brute force method over diplomacy (diplomacy is something which neither of us excels at); often uncertain of him-/myself and insecure. As when he was worried the other gods would think him "unmanly" for wearing a wedding dress. One story I read somewhere adds that he was told to shave off his beard, which really pissed him off. Same here, my beard goes to my death with me. But Thor has a bravery I wish I had.

Hanuman is also a god I feel a very close affinity for. Hanuman is brave, loyal times infinity, clever, strong. Both are gods of strength to whom I've made a promise to get back into shape, lose this accursed weight I've packed on, and gain my strength and muscle size back. Not to mention stop feeling sorry for myself and just cowboy up. I'm not exactly sure which of them has been helping me. Maybe both?

I don't worship Thor the way I used to. My Heathen shrine was dedicated to him, but now because I've re-established my Hindu shrine, I have only a small place on my dresser set aside for Thor's statue, a bottle of rain water, and a couple of candles I occasionally light. I'd like to start making more regular offerings and prayers; ideally I'd like to make a small shrine for both Thor and Hanuman. I don't think it would be a problem for either one of them; even Krishna says if a person desires to worship some deities, and does so with faith and sincerity, he'll strengthen that faith for the person.

But anyway, do you think it could be both of them teaming up to help me in my  fitness and strength endeavor? Anyone see a problem I don't with a co-mingled shrine? I would not make offerings of meat or alcohol in a co-mingled shrine because it's not the Hindu way, but I'm sure Thor would appreciate other types of offerings, even just the lit candles, incense and my devotions. Anyone ever have experience with more than one god/dess assisting them in an endeavor? Much of this is probably UPG and even a bit of MUS, but all thoughts are welcome. :)

I generally hear two main reasons why deities should not share space, and I don't think either of them are relevent in your situation.

First, I think it is fair to say that some deities don't "get along", and/or that the methods appropriate for one deity may not be appropriate for another. I think you have already thought the latter through in quite a reasonable way(not offering Thor meat/alcohol in the space he shares with Hanuman), so I don't see that being a real concern. As to the question of the compatibility of deities, I don't see any obvious reason why Thor and Hanuman can't share a space, and given that you have an ongoing relationship with both deities, any significant issues of incompatibility would probably have made themselves known to you already.

The second reason to avoid mixing sacred space for that I've heard is that deities from different cultures should not mix together. I've never found the reasoning behind this to be particularly convincing; firstly because it violates the syncretism that seems to naturally occur when religious cultures mix, and secondly because it seems to rely upon a notion of cultural essentialism which I think greatly oversimplifies how identities operate and change in the real world. To the extent that I think avoiding pantheon mixing has any validity as a concept is when it is used as a hedge against a sloppy and uniformed syncretism; basically, although I feel it is fine to mix pantheons, it can be done in a disrespectful way if the individual involved has not done the necessary work to understand the deities they are interacting with. In your case, I think you are light years away from having a simplistic knowledge of either Thor/Hanuman or Germanic/South Asian religious systems. The care and time you have invested in your relationships with Thor and Hanuman makes the issue of ill-informed and shallow pantheon mixing non-existent in your case.
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Jainarayan

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Re: Not sure who, which one? Both?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 04:37:43 pm »
Thanks... that was a very thoughtful and analytical post. :)


First, I think it is fair to say that some deities don't "get along", and/or that the methods appropriate for one deity may not be appropriate for another. I think you have already thought the latter through in quite a reasonable way(not offering Thor meat/alcohol in the space he shares with Hanuman), so I don't see that being a real concern. As to the question of the compatibility of deities, I don't see any obvious reason why Thor and Hanuman can't share a space, and given that you have an ongoing relationship with both deities, any significant issues of incompatibility would probably have made themselves known to you already.

I thought so too. There was a time I got a negative feeling about enshrining them together. I don't know where that came from, because I don't have that now. Maybe it was some of those invalid or not relevant reasons one can find on the internet or in books influencing my thoughts. Come to think of it, I think that was indeed the case. I know someone who often asks why someone would go outside their "own religion" or pantheon, isn't it enough? Well, sometimes the answer is "no". There's a saying in Awadhi, an Indian language that loosely translates as "God appears to his devotees in a way meaningful to them". There is no aspect or form of God in the Hindu pantheon that embodies the characteristics I share with Thor. Krishna's philosophies and teachings are what I aspire to, but Thor is what I am. Hanuman has softened and polished characteristics of Thor... the loyalty, compassion, strength, etc., but with patience and perseverance. Thor will smash, Hanuman will contemplate then use cleverness. :) And quite honestly, I'm kind of proud of the personality traits I share with Thor. But I'd ask Hanuman to help me keep the wild man in me in check.

Btw, I agree about the deities that don't get along. When I had a Heathen shrine, I certainly would not have enshrined Heimdall and Loki together. I mean, my Gods, they kill each other at Ragnarök! Thor and Loki? Odin and Loki? Possibly yes. There are some family members you just don't seat together at the same table at your kid's wedding. lol

Quote
The second reason to avoid mixing sacred space for that I've heard is that deities from different cultures should not mix together. ...

 it can be done in a disrespectful way if the individual involved has not done the necessary work to understand the deities they are interacting with. In your case, I think you are light years away from having a simplistic knowledge of either Thor/Hanuman or Germanic/South Asian religious systems. The care and time you have invested in your relationships with Thor and Hanuman makes the issue of ill-informed and shallow pantheon mixing non-existent in your case.

Even if it's not deliberately disrespectful, it can be an affront and offense to the gods done out of ignorance. Some are more chill and lax about it, others might throw a divine temper tantrum and visit all kinds of afflictions, without the devotee knowing why.
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

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