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Author Topic: "Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions  (Read 14392 times)

Valentine

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Re: "Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions...
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2011, 02:36:01 am »
Quote from: Pain and Light;23595

And a rather spectacular one that I remember seeing in one of DJ Conway's books (I'm pretty sure it was hers) that said that Apollo was originally a goddess, and we know this because he had male lovers.

 
That totally makes sense!  I've never heard anything about ancient Greek men ever having same-sex lovers, so it stands to reason the same standards would apply to their Gods.

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SkySamuelle

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Re: "Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions...
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2011, 05:10:41 am »
Quote from: Pain and Light;23595
Speaking of Hekate....I enver quite understood where people get it that she led Persephone from the underworld- Hermes did that. Hekate helped Demeter.


 
This part should be genuine.

Quote


Homeric Hymn 2 to Demeter 436 ff :
"[After Persephone was returned from the underworld to Demeter :] Then bright-coiffed Hekate came near to them, and often did she embrace the daughter of holy Demeter: and from that time the lady Hekate was minister and companion to Persephone."



I am looking for the exact passsage where I read this explained, but  but there's a line where Hekate is referred to with two names 'the one who precedes' (guiding)and 'follows' (protecting) Persephone during her coming and goings from Underworld.

It might be the line I quoted, and the words traslantig minister and companion might be traslated as I reported above, or it might be another line entirely. I'll do some book-digging to check and I'll report when I find the actual answer.:)
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monsnoleedra

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Re: "Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions...
« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2011, 06:29:48 am »
Quote from: Pain and Light;23595
Speaking of Hekate....I enver quite understood where people get it that she led Persephone from the underworld- Hermes did that. Hekate helped Demeter. ..


That's not strickly true.

In early tales it is Hecate who leads Persephone upward from the underworld and to Demeter.  Hermes is present but he stands to the side as Hekate illuminates the way and turns to look back upon persephone.  There's a vase circa 440 B.C. that shows the scene with Hekate, Hermes, Demeter & Persephone in the Metropoltian Museum.  That older version also tying into the notion that both Hekate and Helios heard her cries and knew what had happened to her.

In later tales its just Helios who hears her cries.

I think where the error arises is that Hermes is sent to the underworld to have persephone released by order of Zeus.  Being released to him, he accompanies her but he is not the one leading her from the underworld.  Hekate being the torch bearer who actually walks ahead and light the pathway.  Yet by having her released to him it somewhat becomes seen as he is the one who leads her out vice being the messenger who delivered the order releasing her then simply exits with them.

So then it becomes a question of "Is the one who has her released seen as the one who leeds her out?" or "Is the messenger's task done and he simply exits with them as Hekate lights their way out of the underworld?"   If one look's to the early vase that shows Hermes stepping to the side as Hekate looks back I'd say Hermes simply exited out with them as his job was done the moment Persephone was released.

Sorry tried to find a picture of the vase but was unsuccessful.

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Re: "Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions...
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2017, 02:38:43 pm »

 
Let's see...

Anat is a goddess of sex and lover of Ba'al.  That was a popular idea 50 years ago, but today it's generally accepted that there's no clear evidence for this.  Anat is portrayed as a virgin goddess who supports Ba'al as his sister.

The first deific archetype that comes to mind when I hear "Anat" is "war goddess"...


Quote
Lilith is an ancient Mesopotamian goddess.  Look, I know there are a lot of modern pagans who worship a goddess called Lilith based on the Talmud and 20th century feminist ideas, but Lilitu was never viewed in the ancient Near East as anything but a type of demon that caused harm to women and children. 

It is correct that there was never a goddess in ancient Mesopotamia whose name was "Lilith", and that similar terms would have been used to describe various female night spirits/ demons.

There were many instances across Mesopotamian cultures where the term "LIL" was used, and the word can mean different things, like "wind", "air", "breath", "illness", "haunted", "eerie", "spirit", etc, depending on the context.  For example, words or names or titles such as "ENLIL", "NINLIL" "LILI", "LILU", "LILITU", "EDINLIL", etc...

It is probably no coincidence that in parts of Mesopotamia, variations of the words "LILI" or "LILITU" would have been used to describe various female night spirits/ demons, and in Judaism, variations of the word "Lilith" might be used as a general term for various female demons, or in some instances a specific character. 

_______________

I will say this... if a person or people chooses to combine elements of ancient Mesopotamian culture or religion with more recent spiritual-religious perspectives (as I have done, for example, using the terms "Ereškigal" and "Lilith" to describe the same archdemon goddess), I encourage them to continue doing so, but to contemplate the origins of those words/ names/ phrases/ titles, their place in mythology and religion, and how that might effect one's own spiritual-religious system moving forward.   


Quote
The Sumerian gods were aliens 

Many religions have myths about their gods descending from the sky to interfere with human affairs.  In Abrahamism, for example, when the myths describe "God/ YHVH" or "Elohim", "heaven(s)", "angels", "archangels", "Glory of God/ storm-chariot", etc, they can often be interpreted as not of this earth.  Out of this world.  Extraterrestrial. Any myths across any religion that describe their God or gods "descending from the sky", or having created the cosmos, or the earth, might accurately and understandably have their gods perceived as extraterrestrial. Or "alien".  That is, if those myths are to be taken literally.. as something far more than just allegory or metaphor, revered fictional characters in an epic story, or artistic depictions of deified aspects of nature and human Nature.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 02:43:29 pm by Goddess_Ashtara »
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Re: "Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions...
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2017, 07:13:51 pm »
The first deific archetype that comes to mind when I hear "Anat" is "war goddess"...


It is correct that there was never a goddess in ancient Mesopotamia whose name was "Lilith", and that similar terms would have been used to describe various female night spirits/ demons.

There were many instances across Mesopotamian cultures where the term "LIL" was used, and the word can mean different things, like "wind", "air", "breath", "illness", "haunted", "eerie", "spirit", etc, depending on the context.  For example, words or names or titles such as "ENLIL", "NINLIL" "LILI", "LILU", "LILITU", "EDINLIL", etc...

It is probably no coincidence that in parts of Mesopotamia, variations of the words "LILI" or "LILITU" would have been used to describe various female night spirits/ demons, and in Judaism, variations of the word "Lilith" might be used as a general term for various female demons, or in some instances a specific character. 

_______________

I will say this... if a person or people chooses to combine elements of ancient Mesopotamian culture or religion with more recent spiritual-religious perspectives (as I have done, for example, using the terms "Ereškigal" and "Lilith" to describe the same archdemon goddess), I encourage them to continue doing so, but to contemplate the origins of those words/ names/ phrases/ titles, their place in mythology and religion, and how that might effect one's own spiritual-religious system moving forward.   


Many religions have myths about their gods descending from the sky to interfere with human affairs.  In Abrahamism, for example, when the myths describe "God/ YHVH" or "Elohim", "heaven(s)", "angels", "archangels", "Glory of God/ storm-chariot", etc, they can often be interpreted as not of this earth.  Out of this world.  Extraterrestrial. Any myths across any religion that describe their God or gods "descending from the sky", or having created the cosmos, or the earth, might accurately and understandably have their gods perceived as extraterrestrial. Or "alien".  That is, if those myths are to be taken literally.. as something far more than just allegory or metaphor, revered fictional characters in an epic story, or artistic depictions of deified aspects of nature and human Nature.

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