"Hecate is a Crone Goddess" and Other 'Myth'conceptions

[SunflowerP]

Not trying to make it a general statement.  It's just when I see feminist I think back to what I was seeing and interacting with from the 70's to the mid 90's.  In that regard I suppose I do have a prevailing mindset of what "Pagan Feminist" are and see them against that mold.  Admititly lumping all of them into the same pool in that regard.

Now days I am very aprehensive when I start to speak to someone on Artemis or Diana.  Especially if they leed in with the eternal virgin and the romping in the woods with nymphs as Artemis Agrotera though they do not know that name most times.

 
We've been through this before, although admittedly with the focus on a different aspect of the issue.  Feminism is not a monolith.

Even saying "Pagan Feminism"  doesn't mean you're effectively narrowing it down; that phrase is a slap in the face to lage numbers of us who a) are both pagan and feminist, b) whose feminism and paganism inform each other, c) who were both pagan and feminist in the time period you refer to, AND d) do not, and never have, subscribed to or even had much use for the particular intersection of paganism and feminism you're talking about.  This archive thread is brimful of just such people - that's far more typical of what you'll find on TC.

I don't doubt that you've had the experiences you say you have.  So have we - all the more so since we are pagan feminists, so the revisionist-history-promulgating Goddess-centred separatist feminists kept assuming we must be part of their sisterhood.  So it really pisses me off when you, or anyone else, lumps all pagan feminists together as being part of that.

Sweeping generalizations are the very stuff that bigotry is made of.

Sunflower

[Castus]

The Sumerian gods were aliens

Von Daniken's going to hell for that...

[Lokabrenna]

We've been through this before, although admittedly with the focus on a different aspect of the issue.  Feminism is not a monolith.

Okay everyone, there's no need to turn this thread into a shouting match, but speaking of which, I've noticed that a lot of the mythconceptions come (specifically) from feminist goddess worshipers and traditions like Z. Budapest's Dianic tradition. Where every goddess was once peaceful until the male gods came along and raped them into submission, and war goddesses were always a later development, always.

I forgot to include these little gems:

Freyja and Freyr weren't really brother and sister, but husband and wife. This is what I call the "incest is icky" argument (although whether Freyja actually slept with her brother is up for debate).

(Paraphrased) Why would anyone want to worship the Vanir? They're incestuous! Once again, people, part of being a god is doing things that would be unhealthy for mortals to do, and it seems that most gods don't have to worry about things like birth defects, or STDs, for that matter.

Oh, and who could forget the phrase "Ancient Irish Potato Goddess"

[RandallS]

Okay everyone, there's no need to turn this thread into a shouting match....

A Reminder:

Please do not try to moderate other members (let alone STAFF members). Leave telling others how to behave on this message board to the staff as our rules require. Thank you.

[caelestisraven]

What strange/odd/blatantly untrue things have you heard regarding the gods?

For instance, there's the 'Hecate is a crone goddess,' one that seems to annoy Hellenics everywhere,

I think this topic can be a sensitive issue within paganism. Mostly because we have so many different views on the deities themselves. How I view them as a soft polytheist can be much different from a hard polytheist for sure.

I personally do not see the myths as true or something that really happened. I see them as a nice story. I see the gods as aspects or archetypes that are represented by a specific energy. I think it makes sense to work within the history and core of who they are but at the same time things can change & grow. We can relate different to them in a modern sense or find new meaning in them all at the same time.

I see Hecate as a Crone Goddess. Persephone went willingly, and Artemis is the glowing symbol of amazon feminist energy within my Dianic path. I would never expect everyone to view it the same as me and I can completely understand how it would be very strange for someone who is more of a hard Polytheist to grasp my view. Eh to each their own though

I think there is a huge difference between half assing it and just skimming the surface and making crap up & actually finding your own way of understanding, translating & connecting it. I love the Goddesses. I put alot of time and thought and love into my views on them. The difference is not knowing any better and just believing whatever you hear and actually making a conscious choice to rethink and reconnect to it.

I think there is alot of misconceptions within this thread on feminist goddess worship. Most of what has been stated on what we think and how we view the Goddesses is not true for atleast most of us.

We can not always agree when we view things very differently but we can still have respect for anothers view and understand that we are all different.

[Juniperberry]

A Reminder:

Please do not try to moderate other members (let alone STAFF members). Leave telling others how to behave on this message board to the staff as our rules require. Thank you.

 
Wow, I like the new mod format. I'm sure you would have said the same thing on the old board, but for some reason the modhats made the warning more jarring. This one is pretty neat.

Topic? Freyja was a sex goddess celebrated in orgies on Friday.

[Lokabrenna]

Topic? Freyja was a sex goddess celebrated in orgies on Friday.

This is something I see a lot with certain deities (both male and female). Apparently at least half the Greek pantheon was celebrated in that way, if certain sources are to be believed.

[Darkhawk]

This is something I see a lot with certain deities (both male and female). Apparently at least half the Greek pantheon was celebrated in that way, if certain sources are to be believed.

 
Busy Fridays!

[RandallS]

I see Hecate as a Crone Goddess.

I don't have a problem with that, provided you don't try to claim that this is how the ancient Greeks saw her or that she was part of a triple goddess in ancient Greece.

[RandallS]

Topic? Freyja was a sex goddess celebrated in orgies on Friday.

Along with Hekate, I'm sure. (Seeing Hekate causally the goddess of eroticism is when Lyric threw Origins of Modern Witchcraft across the room.)

[Nyktipolos]

This is something I see a lot with certain deities (both male and female). Apparently at least half the Greek pantheon was celebrated in that way, if certain sources are to be believed.

 
This is correct only if the reader realizes or the author makes clear that the orgia used for worship was not "giant sex pile of sex-ness", but rather an ecstatic form of worship that could include sex, but was not the point of it. It was more often used to get the worshipper(s) in a state of ekstasis and connect with God by celebrating Their Mysteries.

[yewberry]

Busy Fridays!

TGIF?  

Brina

[Lokabrenna]

TGIF?  

Brina

My first thought was: "The phrase 'casual Fridays' takes on a whole new meaning now!"

To be fair though, a lot of the literature I've read seems to say: "X deity was worshiped with orgiastic rites" which to me implies more of an ecstatic sort of rite and not with an orgy as we would understand it, Dionysus is a god that comes to mind, at least in the stories.

[monsnoleedra]

My first thought was: "The phrase 'casual Fridays' takes on a whole new meaning now!"

To be fair though, a lot of the literature I've read seems to say: "X deity was worshiped with orgiastic rites" which to me implies more of an ecstatic sort of rite and not with an orgy as we would understand it, Dionysus is a god that comes to mind, at least in the stories.

Bastet is another who is associated with "Orgiastic rites" as her followers sail down the nile to her temple.  Unfortunately today those same "Rites" are now used to justify her being a "sex" goddess and later goddess of lesbians.

[Lokabrenna]

Bastet is another who is associated with "Orgiastic rites" as her followers sail down the nile to her temple.  Unfortunately today those same "Rites" are now used to justify her being a "sex" goddess and later goddess of lesbians.

 
I have heard the "goddess of lesbians" bit and I just...didn't get it at the time...I still don't.

In fact, per-Bast.org has a whole page devoted to debunking "modern myths" regarding Bast (with footnotes): http://www.per-bast.org/bast/essay12.html