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Author Topic: "Fictional" deities  (Read 4865 times)

victoreia

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2013, 09:01:00 pm »
Quote from: Carnelian;100582
All deities are fictional, to some extent. I think all deities are complex symbols we use to relate to what is unknowable and beyond our understanding, so it doesn't really matter whether someone uses concepts of divinity from ancient cultures or fictional stories if they resonate with that person.

 
When I was in high school, I swore by Elath, who was a deity mentioned in a Star Trek novel I'd read. These days, not so much; however, I sometimes ask the Star-Eyed Goddess of the Shin'a'in for patience. (Usually just before taking a deep breath and biting my tongue. She's one who prefers you do for yourself until you really need an assist, and not for every little thing.)
Do. Or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

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Lorien35

Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2013, 04:56:22 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;99781
I was just wondering if anyone here ever works with deities invented in works of fiction. For example, the pantheons of Terry Pratchett's Discworld, the gods and goddesses of The Legend of Zelda or The Elder Scrolls, or maybe just The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I don't myself, but I was curious about anyone else's opinions or experiences. Do you believe that people can have legitimate relationships or religious experiences with deities that are specifically meant to be viewed as fictional?

 
Yes, I do, I find deities resonate closer to me in that way, I've always felt that some writers and some stories are the sagas of today, and they resonate with us, how the sagas from before must have resonated with the people of the time -not to say they don't any more, I'm a huge fan of the Niebelungen, but I feel that things have changed so much and our story tellers, our bards have changed with it. What I don't think has changed is that their words still conjure a magical and in many ways extremely true reality, which might not be ours, but is related to it in many ways, or perhaps becomes attached to it when we read those words and start to think and transport ourselves and believe.
I believe in the Old Ones, personality because my whole world view shifted when Wedon described it and I thought There, right there, that's it. I've had people tell me that accepting one thing is the same as accepting all of it, but I don't think it works that way. It's the world view that makes sense, the characters are a story, but the cosmology? I have Illyria on my altar.

Lorien35

Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2013, 04:58:44 pm »
Quote from: A Disgruntled Scotsman;100695
I remember seeing a thread (I think it was on this forum) on a similar topic where someone said they had worked with the Chaos Gods of the Warhammer/W40K universe and had thought it went okay.

I remember thinking at the time "Assuming you're telling the truth; What's wrong with you?!"


You can ask what's wrong with me. I won't take offence.

Jack

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2013, 05:16:55 pm »
Quote from: Lorien35;101128
You can ask what's wrong with me. I won't take offence.

 
Do you work with the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40k? Because I think that specifically is what's being referred to - they're not really gods any sane person wants to mess with.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Lorien35

Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2013, 06:36:28 pm »
Quote from: Jack;101132
Do you work with the Chaos Gods from Warhammer 40k? Because I think that specifically is what's being referred to - they're not really gods any sane person wants to mess with.

 
I meant Illyria. She's a powerful ruler from the demon age. And i love her, but well...She's an old One, In power and temperament she's kinda like Lovecraft's ones. I'm guessing it's similar -I'm not sure it really gets crazier than that (Lovecraft, not Illyria) so I was assuming the Chaos Gods were the same type. If they're worst then...wow, are they crazy?

Olie

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2013, 06:51:00 pm »
Quote from: Lorien35;101127
I have Illyria on my altar.

 
NO WAY OH MY GOD REALLY?? thats awesome! i have comics about her! she rocks! i dont really pray to her but i really dig that you do!

Altair

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2013, 06:55:59 pm »
Quote from: Jack;100144
That is not unrelated to religious work I'm doing, actually. Very interesting.



Same here. It's kind of what I do, one of the primary ways my paganism is expressed; I don't do magic, I don't generally do rituals...but I write myths. I'm closing in on finishing the entire myth cycle, in fact. (Writing more on one of my myths is what I set this time right now aside for, in fact; but when I saw the turn this thread had taken, I had to chime in. Plus it's a good excuse to procrastinate from the tough work ahead.)

I hunger for an ongoing discussion with like-minded mythmakers, because we are so rare. Virtually *nobody* works in the genre of original myth anymore. (I'm not talking about retelling the ancient myths, or creating myths specifically for a fantasy world. I'm talking myths for us, today, in *this* world.) But it's what I was born to do, and I find it immensely rewarding.

To echo some sentiments already expressed or suggested: Writing myths is like being an explorer. In one sense you're making it up, but in another sense, if you're doing it right, you're actually just uncovering what's already there. Mythmaking takes forces far beyond our limited human capacity to fully comprehend and gives us a means to get a handle on them, however imperfectly; and in my experience, the revelations and insights to be had by doing so are astounding. And I don't use that word lightly.

For me, I stumbled onto this process by accident. I've always told stories, and in envisioning a new work of fiction (that will never be written), I tried to imagine what the religion of a future humanity would look like. Inadvertently, I ended up mapping my own subconscious beliefs, and the whole myth cycle evolved from there, leaving the crappy, derivative fiction that it was hiding under in the dust.

I've been meaning to launch my own writer's website for a while now, with one of the primary purposes being to create a space where mythmakers like us can discuss all this. When I finally get to it, I'll invite all of you over.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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Jack

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2013, 07:11:10 pm »
Quote from: Altair;101151
I hunger for an ongoing discussion with like-minded mythmakers, because we are so rare. Virtually *nobody* works in the genre of original myth anymore. (I'm not talking about retelling the ancient myths, or creating myths specifically for a fantasy world. I'm talking myths for us, today, in *this* world.) But it's what I was born to do, and I find it immensely rewarding.


There is the Storyteller's SIG on this board, which seems like it would be a good place to start such a discussion until your website is ready to roll. I'd love to see a discussion over there on this subject.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Altair

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2013, 07:18:16 pm »
Quote from: Jack;101156
There is the Storyteller's SIG on this board, which seems like it would be a good place to start such a discussion until your website is ready to roll. I'd love to see a discussion over there on this subject.


Do you mean the "Stories of the Spirit" SIG?
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Olie

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2013, 07:47:52 pm »
Quote from: Altair;101151


I hunger for an ongoing discussion with like-minded mythmakers, because we are so rare. Virtually *nobody* works in the genre of original myth anymore. (I'm not talking about retelling the ancient myths, or creating myths specifically for a fantasy world. I'm talking myths for us, today, in *this* world.) But it's what I was born to do, and I find it immensely rewarding.


 
yeah you should totally make a topic about it! i'd lurk the dickens out of that thread! i make myths too and i love hearin what other people got going on

Lorien35

Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2013, 07:52:59 pm »
Quote from: Olie;101150
NO WAY OH MY GOD REALLY?? thats awesome! i have comics about her! she rocks! i dont really pray to her but i really dig that you do!

 
I know, right?

I'd also love a threat about myth-making, I've written a couple and I think I'd like to discuss the process and whether there are similarities.

Shine

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2013, 07:56:24 pm »
Quote from: Altair;101151
I hunger for an ongoing discussion with like-minded mythmakers, because we are so rare. Virtually *nobody* works in the genre of original myth anymore. (I'm not talking about retelling the ancient myths, or creating myths specifically for a fantasy world. I'm talking myths for us, today, in *this* world.) But it's what I was born to do, and I find it immensely rewarding.


*meekly raises hand* Hi. Another mythmaker here.

It's a lot of fun, to be sure. And it's helpful in filling holes where the historical record comes down to us imperfectly. It's especially enjoyable to explore the symbolism cascade that inevitably happens, what that means, and how you might apply that to your daily practice.

Quote
I've been meaning to launch my own writer's website for a while now, with one of the primary purposes being to create a space where mythmakers like us can discuss all this. When I finally get to it, I'll invite all of you over.

 
Asgagfadgklj. That would be awesome. :D
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

Egarwaen

Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2013, 08:05:32 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;99781
I was just wondering if anyone here ever works with deities invented in works of fiction. For example, the pantheons of Terry Pratchett's Discworld, the gods and goddesses of The Legend of Zelda or The Elder Scrolls, or maybe just The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I don't myself, but I was curious about anyone else's opinions or experiences. Do you believe that people can have legitimate relationships or religious experiences with deities that are specifically meant to be viewed as fictional?

 
Yes. I referred to Brigid as "the Lady of Spring" (from Lois McMaster Bujold's series of fantasy novels) for years before I got around to doing a bunch of reading and identified a more typical identity. In one of my brief, clear moments of contact, I got a sense of extreme amusement. I think she didn't mind because all god-identities are "fictional" to some degree or another. (Thus why Greek plays are still good sources for knowledge of Olympian gods) They're mindsets we can use to deal with Them, and roles They can step into when speaking with us. To be clear, I say this while also being a "strong" polytheist; I'm not saying that any god can take any role, or that all gods are one god. Merely that there's some level of intermediation.

Jack

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2013, 10:11:34 pm »
Quote from: Altair;101160
Do you mean the "Stories of the Spirit" SIG?

 
Yes, that. Sorry, didn't look before I typed.
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Fireof9

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Re: "Fictional" deities
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2013, 12:16:26 am »
Quote from: Altair;101151
Same here. It's kind of what I do, one of the primary ways my paganism is expressed; I don't do magic, I don't generally do rituals...but I write myths.

 
Not exactly the same, but I have been slowly working on the myth of a little known Irish deity. I kind of started it as a way to get to know her better, by writing down my impressions of her I may stumble upon some insight. But I kind of determined in the beginning that no-one but me would ever read it, I really did not want to deal with the critics I guess. Maybe that was a poor decision on my part. I never knew there was anyone out there at all doing anything remotely close to it.
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