collapse

Important Announcement

Changing the Guard at The Cauldron

Sunflower is the new Host of The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum
Please read this thread for more information.

* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Games: Dungeons and Dragons  (Read 1585 times)

dlnewhouse

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2016
  • Location: FL
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 0
  • ba weep grana weep nini bon
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christian
Dungeons and Dragons
« on: July 22, 2018, 10:06:33 am »
Which books have power over the spirit world?  I suppose the older ones were better.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 10:40:41 am by RandallS »
Daniel L Newhouse

ehbowen

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • *
  • Posts: 1164
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 205
  • A Ways Around the Bend...
    • View Profile
    • Streamliner Schedules
  • Religion: Southern Baptist
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2018, 10:11:25 am »
Which books have power over the spirit world?  I suppose the older ones were better.

You're sounding a bit like Jack Chick's opposite number.

Definitely not pooh-poohing the spirit realm, but...IMHO, any spirit which allows any human books to have "power" over him...except perhaps in the case of, "Hey, these guys are really getting into this...let's see if we can freak them out!"...is not the kind of personality you'd want to invest a lot of time and effort into in the first place.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

dlnewhouse

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2016
  • Location: FL
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 0
  • ba weep grana weep nini bon
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christian
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2018, 10:15:14 am »
Definitely not pooh-poohing the spirit realm, but...IMHO, any spirit which allows any human books to have "power" over him...except perhaps in the case of, "Hey, these guys are really getting into this...let's see if we can freak them out!"...is not the kind of personality you'd want to invest a lot of time and effort into in the first place.

Ward me from the spirit realm?
Daniel L Newhouse

ehbowen

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • *
  • Posts: 1164
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 205
  • A Ways Around the Bend...
    • View Profile
    • Streamliner Schedules
  • Religion: Southern Baptist
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 10:22:02 am »
Ward me from the spirit realm?

If it's warding you're looking for, that's an area I have no personal experience in. One of the other posters would have better information on the practical considerations. Myself, I view the spirit world from the perspective of a conservative Christian and I entrust my Savior and heavenly Father...as well as the three finest guardian angels in the cosmos...to protect me from anyone with evil intent. Their record so far has been outstanding. As a Christian, I'm looking at a "hands off" warning in regards to personal involvement in spiritual matters, but I am curious...and I have reason to believe that, at some point in the not-too-distant future, that warning may be eased and/or a "learner's permit" may be in play.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Uneryx

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 200
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 131
    • View Profile
  • Religion: it's eclectic (woogie woogie woogie)
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2018, 05:41:45 pm »
Which books have power over the spirit world?  I suppose the older ones were better.

Id recommend going to the DND manuals for spiritual advice about as much as I'd recommend going to McDonalds for a healthy salad... DND is kind of a magpie hodge-podge of various legends, myths, fantasy tropes and other things, and the actual "spells" inside them are sort of... not how magic works at all.

I see in your profile that you're Christian. If you're looking for spiritual protection, your own scriptures offer plenty of advice in that regard. Additionally, if you're looking for esoteric/occult solutions, there are plenty of books about warding and psychic protection. As EHBowen mentioned, there are a lot of resources for that on the forum.

Might I ask why Dungeons & Dragons was your first consideration?

RandallS

  • Site Admin
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: NE Ohio
  • Posts: 10165
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 253
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hellenic Pagan
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 08:52:17 pm »
Which books have power over the spirit world?  I suppose the older ones were better.

You will not find any useful information on the real world's spirit world in any edition of D&D. D&D is just a game. Its magic and cosmology is just as fictional as the magic in LOTR or Harry Potter.

Back in the late 1970s I did write up a set of rules for OD&D that allowed game characters to summon demons and angels that was based on real world western ceremonial magic, but even those rules would not help anyone actually perform western ceremonial magic any more that reading D&D's combat rules would teach one how to fight with a sword.
Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog]: Microlite74/75/78/81, BX Advanced, and Other Old School Tabletop RPGs
Microlite20: Lots of Rules Lite Tabletop RPGs -- Many Free
OSR.SPACE: Old School Tabletop RPG Community

Hariti

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Kentucky
  • *
  • Posts: 874
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 285
  • ( Formerly known as EDF.)
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hindu with Christian and Pop-Culture Elements
  • Preferred Pronouns: Mostly she/her
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 06:00:32 pm »
Which books have power over the spirit world?  I suppose the older ones were better.

I'm afraid I'm not very versed in pop culture religious stuff. I wasn't aware that there even were people who looked to D&D for spiritual guidance! I've played the game, but only as a game, I've got no idea how to get anything useful out of it for real life usage, if that's even a thing that one can do!
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Jabberwocky

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 449
  • Total likes: 20
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2018, 07:56:15 pm »
I'm afraid I'm not very versed in pop culture religious stuff. I wasn't aware that there even were people who looked to D&D for spiritual guidance! I've played the game, but only as a game, I've got no idea how to get anything useful out of it for real life usage, if that's even a thing that one can do!

It's certainly doable.

I've never worked with D&D, but I've used other RPGs.  I did a fair bit of work with the Warhammer pantheon for a bit and I've nicked bits of my personal philosophy from Ars Magica (especially House Tytalus) and Unknown Armies.

But with anything like this the trick is to use things as inspiration and work outwards from there. Which I'm not sure is what the OP is actually looking for; certainly there's no esoteric secrets in the D&D rulebook. Or at least no more than in any other book.
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8226
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 248
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 05:07:56 pm »
IWhich I'm not sure is what the OP is actually looking for....

As far as staff have been able to tell, lulz - he's some or another species of troll. At least with this account, he wasn't going in for gratuitous misogynistic wankfodder, as he did with his previous two.

That needn't stop anyone from turning this thread into a decent convo, though! Some of my favorite threads on TC have been instances in which the OP got themselves banned early on, but the thread itself went on.

Sunflower
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Uneryx

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2017
  • Posts: 200
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 131
    • View Profile
  • Religion: it's eclectic (woogie woogie woogie)
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2018, 06:22:33 pm »
That needn't stop anyone from turning this thread into a decent convo, though!

Well then HEY! Lets talk about DND y'all!

The campaign I've been running and its sequel have heavily featured fairies and some pagan concepts - one of the puzzles was based on the wheel of the year, and I have definitely not stuck to the game's rules on fairies (a lot more grey area between summer/winter, for example)

I know that I initially said that there's about as much actual spiritual content in a DMG as healthy salads at Micky Dicky, but playing DND has definitely helped me explore some themes and ideas that I really enjoy, and to break away from some harmful indoctrinated thinking.

Plus, my house is full of good energy when we're done!

Jabberwocky

  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 449
  • Total likes: 20
    • View Profile
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 06:55:04 pm »
I know that I initially said that there's about as much actual spiritual content in a DMG as healthy salads at Micky Dicky, but playing DND has definitely helped me explore some themes and ideas that I really enjoy, and to break away from some harmful indoctrinated thinking.

Philosophically, I think the alignment system is interesting. Especially in the early days, D&D really did portray a cosmic battle between good and evil.

One very different from it's Moorcockian inspiration.  A lot less nuanced with much clearer lines of right and wrong. That's possibly in part due to Gygax's personal religious beliefs. (Compare and constrast with Warhammer's treatment of the same subject.  In its arly days Warhammer was written by cynical British ex punks. And it shows).
Your heart is a muscle as big as your fist.

Hariti

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Kentucky
  • *
  • Posts: 874
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 285
  • ( Formerly known as EDF.)
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hindu with Christian and Pop-Culture Elements
  • Preferred Pronouns: Mostly she/her
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2018, 08:29:27 pm »
Philosophically, I think the alignment system is interesting. Especially in the early days, D&D really did portray a cosmic battle between good and evil.

I hate it's alignment system. "Always X Evil" doesn't compute with my own religious philosophy. In my RL religious system, even *demons* wouldn't fall under that classification. I believe that *anything* with sapience also has, by definition, free will and control over it's actions. Nobody and no thing is too far gone to change.

A myth that illustrates this, from India (more common in Buddhism than Hinduism) is the story of the Asura Hariti who became a Bodhisattva. The Asura are primordial beings of chaos and selfishness who are known for being the closest thing to pure evil Hinduism has. Yet, according to this myth, one of them was converted willingly to Buddhism and totally reformed herself into a benevolent being.

D&D applies immutable moral alignments no only to demons, which at least is understandable given it's Judaeo-Christian writers, but also to mortal beings like Drow, Orcs, and Giants. This notion just doesn't jive with me at all, on a deep philosophical level.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8226
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 248
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2018, 09:23:13 pm »
Well then HEY! Lets talk about DND y'all!

Since that's happening, and doing so in a way that's almost all 'gaming' and only a little 'religion and philosophy', I'll slide it on over to the Games subforum.

Sunflower

[Edited to correct name of subforum - SP]
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 09:27:27 pm by SunflowerP »
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

ehbowen

  • Grand Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Location: Houston, Texas
  • *
  • Posts: 1164
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 205
  • A Ways Around the Bend...
    • View Profile
    • Streamliner Schedules
  • Religion: Southern Baptist
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2018, 10:14:12 pm »
I hate it's alignment system. "Always X Evil" doesn't compute with my own religious philosophy. In my RL religious system, even *demons* wouldn't fall under that classification. I believe that *anything* with sapience also has, by definition, free will and control over it's actions. Nobody and no thing is too far gone to change.

A myth that illustrates this, from India (more common in Buddhism than Hinduism) is the story of the Asura Hariti who became a Bodhisattva. The Asura are primordial beings of chaos and selfishness who are known for being the closest thing to pure evil Hinduism has. Yet, according to this myth, one of them was converted willingly to Buddhism and totally reformed herself into a benevolent being.

D&D applies immutable moral alignments no only to demons, which at least is understandable given it's Judaeo-Christian writers, but also to mortal beings like Drow, Orcs, and Giants. This notion just doesn't jive with me at all, on a deep philosophical level.

This Judeo-Christian would agree with you. I can agree that societal and genetic background can encourage a tendency towards evil...some people are literally born alcoholics...but, ultimately, whether or not you act upon that tendency is a matter of your own choice. So that's one of the aspects of DnD which I always had a problem with, as well.
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Hariti

  • Sr. Master Member
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Location: Kentucky
  • *
  • Posts: 874
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 285
  • ( Formerly known as EDF.)
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Hindu with Christian and Pop-Culture Elements
  • Preferred Pronouns: Mostly she/her
Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 10:21:04 pm »
This Judeo-Christian would agree with you.

Noted.

I can't say it surprises me. You've stated many times that you hold the position of universal salvation. It's one of the things we have in common.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1023 Views
Last post September 03, 2011, 08:11:48 pm
by rainbowgrower
2 Replies
969 Views
Last post January 29, 2014, 05:22:40 pm
by SunflowerP
18 Replies
5167 Views
Last post May 06, 2016, 09:32:45 am
by RecycledBenedict
7 Replies
2167 Views
Last post October 05, 2016, 06:19:18 pm
by blessedoutcast
3 Replies
216 Views
Last post June 20, 2019, 02:14:20 pm
by Donal2018

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 31
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall