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Author Topic: Family: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.  (Read 6061 times)

HarpingHawke

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2014, 12:44:12 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;163537
I agree the system sucks, but the problem is generally not the teachers - it's either parental pressure on 'having the best school' on the administration (and some messed up ideas of what that looks like) or pressure from the relevant government.

I've definitely noticed what you've mentioned. Every so often a teacher will be horrible, but it does generally seem to be the government or parents putting an obscene amount of pressure on everyone involved. It's an interesting phenomenon...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 12:45:32 pm by HarpingHawke »
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HeartShadow

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2014, 12:49:45 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;163533
Hmm. Maybe it's just where I am at the moment. They tend to glorify the busy and ignore the implications to health.

 
Well, there's also crazy bragging-rights for students sometimes - "dude, I was up til THREE writing that paper!" "yeah?  I was up ALL NIGHT" .. never mind that they had three months and didn't start until the night before ....

And the hours for high school are also built around the idea that teens might have JOBS, so the school hours have to end early enough that the teen can still work whatever hours they have AND get homework done.  It's not irrational - might not be optimal, but it's not irrational.

Amphibian

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 12:57:18 pm »
Quote from: HarpingHawke;163539
I've definitely noticed what you've mentioned. Every so often a teacher will be horrible, but it does generally seem to be the government or parents putting an obscene amount of pressure on everyone involved. It's an interesting phenomenon...

Emphasis mine. I saw a rather pointed political cartoon (sadly, unable to cite source) that was a Then/Now-type thing. The Then (if I recall correctly, labelled as approx. 1970) has the teacher and parents holding out a paper/test with a failing grade and demanding an explanation from the student.  The Now is the same scenario, except now it's the student and parent demanding explanations from the teacher.

From the tales I've heard told, the cartoon is, if anything, an understatement. When did this start happening? Why?  (Sadly, not my field at all, so I can't offer anything resembling an explanation, only raise the question.)

HarpingHawke

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2014, 12:59:20 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;163542
Well, there's also crazy bragging-rights for students sometimes - "dude, I was up til THREE writing that paper!" "yeah?  I was up ALL NIGHT" .. never mind that they had three months and didn't start until the night before ....

And the hours for high school are also built around the idea that teens might have JOBS, so the school hours have to end early enough that the teen can still work whatever hours they have AND get homework done.  It's not irrational - might not be optimal, but it's not irrational.

Personally, I've never seen anyone be given more than a week to write an important paper, but I suppose that's different for everyone. But yeah, I see the bragging all the time. It weirds me out.

**nods** Makes sense. In that regard, it's certainly not irrational.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 01:00:10 pm by HarpingHawke »
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HarpingHawke

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2014, 01:02:00 pm »
Quote from: Amphibian;163543

From the tales I've heard told, the cartoon is, if anything, an understatement. When did this start happening? Why?  (Sadly, not my field at all, so I can't offer anything resembling an explanation, only raise the question.)

 
Also not my field, really, but the Why of it is something that's eluded me for years as well.
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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2014, 02:05:28 pm »
Quote from: sailor;163519
The article sounds like she was at an IB (International Bacculaurate) school.  Supposedly modeled on European rathar than American schools.

 
Speaking as someone who went through an IB school (one of the largest in the world, actually), it sounded a whole hell of a lot more like my experience with non-IB public schooling than the actual IB program, though that was constrained by having to be held in a public school.

Also, IB schools are supervised out of, IIRC, Geneva.
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DancesWithHorses

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2014, 09:28:59 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;163542
Well, there's also crazy bragging-rights for students sometimes - "dude, I was up til THREE writing that paper!" "yeah?  I was up ALL NIGHT" .. never mind that they had three months and didn't start until the night before ....

And the hours for high school are also built around the idea that teens might have JOBS, so the school hours have to end early enough that the teen can still work whatever hours they have AND get homework done.  It's not irrational - might not be optimal, but it's not irrational.


This. I was the person who would write an essay the night it was due just to prove I could do it and still walk away with the best mark in the class. Only did it once and only for the bragging rights.
Not all teens function best later in the day. By the time 10AM rolled around, I was ready to go back to bed. For me, the worst part was the hour before and after school spent on the school bus. I spent 2 hours a day from age 7 to 17 on a school bus doing next to nothing. We thought it was the best thing ever when they moved school up and we could go home at 3PM (well 4PM by the time you factor in the bus).

The system is broken in the sense that students are herded through like cattle. Students are not treated as individuals with different learning styles but as a number who needs to be put through the system. Who cares if anything was learned as long as every student graduates. Some might think we've made progress since the one-room schoolhouses with 1 teacher and 20 children but I think that's wrong. My best years in school were the years I was in a split class because there weren't enough children in those years in my county, so we had 3 years together, from grade 4 to grade 8. And maybe that worked because my teachers were forced to get creative.

I think society forgets that teenagers are young adults, crazy, risk-taking and begging for a challenge. We forget that 100 years ago, if you were over 14, you were basically an adult. I hated school towards the end because I was running part of a large corporate farm by the time I was 16 and still treated like a child in school. Responsiblity isn't a bad thing. The high school in my area finally found a solution to many of the issues when they brought in the high skills programs. All those guys who couldn't sit still could go out and work on construction sites half of the day.
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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2014, 03:08:00 am »
Quote from: Jenett;163537
For what it's worth, at schools that are like that, it's usually like that for the *teachers* too.

At the independent school I worked at for 10 years, I remember a faculty meeting where it became suddenly clear that the majority of teachers were either coming in *absurdly* early in the morning (like 4-5am) to get work done (and continuing to work until 5pm or so), or were up past midnight doing it most nights of the week. There were exceptions, but they were maybe a quarter of the people there.

(There was also a lot of pressure not to take sick time, to put off things that weren't urgent in favour of Doing More For The School, and so on, all of which also - well, over time, mean people are just trying to get through the day, not working at their best.)


All of this was mentioned to me in one of my teaching classes, as a warning of what not to do. It over extends teachers and they tend to burn out fast trying to be all things to all people.

Quote from: Jenett;163537


I agree the system sucks, but the problem is generally not the teachers - it's either parental pressure on 'having the best school' on the administration (and some messed up ideas of what that looks like) or pressure from the relevant government.

 
Yep, Teachers are usually stuck in the middle between parental pressures, government legislation and funding (here at least), and Admin/leading teachers and Principles demands.
"I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."
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sailor

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Re: What teacher learned 2 days as a student.
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2014, 07:03:36 am »
Quote from: Amphibian;163543
From the tales I've heard told, the cartoon is, if anything, an understatement. When did this start happening? Why?  (Sadly, not my field at all, so I can't offer anything resembling an explanation, only raise the question.)

 
Why Johnny Can't Read, maybe.  I skimmed it 40 years ago, but have read other shorter things over the years but it's Not an area of personal expertise.

I suspect some time in the mid to late 1970s teachers (or politicians / teacher's representatives) tried to make a claim that more money would solve the poor educational outcomes in American schools.  Hence with the rise in taxes (whether for schools or not) parents were lead to believe that the problem was with the teachers not with the kid or themselves.

This also seems to have played into the idea of testing. American's aren't learning as much, so test to reward the schools that are doing well (at least measured by test scores) and get the poorer schools to adopt the means and thus get Federal money.

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