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Author Topic: Family: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?  (Read 7342 times)

Morag

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2014, 11:49:48 pm »
Quote from: DavidMcCann;134679
Yes.
Let's get the facts here:
Doctors warn us that obesity is unhealthy.


ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY DOCTORS, WHO ARE CERTAINLY NOT HUMAN AND FALLIBLE.

And CERTAINLY they're not individuals and they ALL SAY THE EXACT SAME THING right? There couldn't POSSIBLY be a doctor out there who disagrees with your statement, because ALL DOCTORS ARE THE SAME. And gods. And infallible.

I mean, these are just facts.

Quote from: DavidMcCann;134679
The obesity rate in the USA (the world's worst?) is 36%, but the anorexia rate in the USA is 2%: Americans are 18 times more likely to risk their health from being too fat than from being too thin.


Anorexia doesn't mean "being too thin". It's a mental disorder that, gone unchecked, will eventually cause one to become very thin. The physical symptoms of anorexia appear after the mental symptoms have already started and been around for a while.  

However, depending on one's body type/structure, "very thin" for them may appear to be "normal" to most people, as we've all been lied to by our fatphobic society for so long. To equate anorexia with thinness is not only wrong, it erases those victims of anorexia who don't fit into the box of "thinness" because of their body types (or because they were lucky enough to beat the illness before losing too much weight).

Positing anorexia as the "opposite" of obesity is an example of wilful ignorance, and one that hurts actual living survivors of anorexia.

Also, nice victim-blaming! I like how you said Americans are more likely to risk their health by being too fat than being too thin -- because obviously fatness, like thinness, is ALWAYS a conscious choice and has nothing to do with genes, or class, or mental illness, or any other MYRIAD factors OH WAIT IT ACTUALLY DOES.

Oh, and by the way, your comments about fatness always being unhealthy are just incredibly wrong.

Quote
"In our research," Dr. Blair said, "people who are obese but fit, according to cardiovascular measurement, actually have death rates half of normal weight people who are unfit."


Source.

Quote from: DavidMcCann;134679
Promoting a "positive image" of being fat just to stop fat people feeling sorry for themselves is just plain stupid.


Nice derail, dude. Where did we say we were feeling sorry for ourselves? NOWHERE.

Should I get you and the strawman a room?

All we're asking for is for one or two people or pop culture icons who are fat to NOT be a bundle of negative stereotypes. ALL we're asking for is for people to treat us like we're HUMAN.

Obviously we survive constant dehumanization ANYWAY, and let me tell you -- feeling sorry for yourself doesn't help you survive daily marginalization and/or oppression. There is no TIME to feel sorry for yourself when you are fighting a constant battle for your right to fucking exist.
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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2014, 01:11:26 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;134691
My eating disorder nearly killed me. Anyone who thinks that being thin is "healthier" than listening to one's body and attending to its needs is welcome to try the kind of starvation I put myself through and still couldn't achieve model proportions. On 600 calories a day, purging most of that, I got down to a size 6. My periods stopped. I was tired constantly. It destabilized my blood sugar to a degree from which I've never fully come back. I was so out of proportion that my head looked too big for my body. But my thighs still touched, and my stomach still wasn't flat, and I still felt like a failure. So I completely agree that anorexia is more toxic, as are the people who think taking a stand against the kind of humiliation and abuse that drives young girls to that point is "stupid." May the blood of those dying of anorexia be on the heads of those who think our fat-shaming, abusive culture is to be defended.

 
Agreed. I have a 12 year old child who, due to genetics, will always find it difficult to put on weight, but has a complete fear of being called fat by the other kids at school. One of her best friends is a solid girl, all bid bones and muscle, not overweight at all, but is still bullied for being perceived as fat. Please, someone tell me why this is right? When it has come down to kids having implanted in their head the fact that Barbie has a figure all girls must aspire to, and size 00 is the ideal, something MUST change! No, I am not saying that all children should be obese, before someone jumps on THAT bandwagon. I am saying that children should be encouraged to be a HEALTHY weight for their build and size. That should be the social norm, not a waist that you could snap with a sharp stare! I am now struggling to keep my daughter from thinking she needs to diet. She weighs 66lbs at 4ft 8ins. She needs to eat to grow, for the Gods sake!

I have been called fat recently. I was quite surprised really as, due to illness, I weigh a whole 124lbs. I am 5ft 5ins. Seriously, when did that become overweight? If anything, I need to gain a few pounds (which just isn't going to happen- I've been trying for nearly 2 years now). So why is super skinny now the ideal? It's not particularly attractive (I've never enjoyed counting ribs) and I'm sure that it can't be healthy for the majority. If you are that thin naturally, then all power to you, but it shouldn't be a standard to be imposed on everyone else, I am sure.

I can't speak for people on the other end of the scale as I have not been there (unless you count being pregnant and losing that weight afterwards) but I don't hold with fat shaming. At all. People who have more weight are NOT always unhealthy. That is a broad generalization and untrue. I now a lot of what people would call obese people who are a damned sight healthier than I am- my mother is one of them, thanks all the same.
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Naomi J

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Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2014, 03:30:52 am »
Quote from: Morag;134767
Anorexia doesn't mean "being too thin". It's a mental disorder that, gone unchecked, will eventually cause one to become very thin. The physical symptoms of anorexia appear after the mental symptoms have already started and been around for a while.  

However, depending on one's body type/structure, "very thin" for them may appear to be "normal" to most people, as we've all been lied to by our fatphobic society for so long. To equate anorexia with thinness is not only wrong, it erases those victims of anorexia who don't fit into the box of "thinness" because of their body types (or because they were lucky enough to beat the illness before losing too much weight).

Positing anorexia as the "opposite" of obesity is an example of wilful ignorance, and one that hurts actual living survivors of anorexia.

Also, nice victim-blaming! I like how you said Americans are more likely to risk their health by being too fat than being too thin -- because obviously fatness, like thinness, is ALWAYS a conscious choice and has nothing to do with genes, or class, or mental illness, or any other MYRIAD factors OH WAIT IT ACTUALLY DOES.

*nods* When I was in my late teens I got down to 7 stone (98 lbs). My weight wasn't low enough to be classified as anorexia. I now know that my normal-for-me weight is somewhere around 10 stone (140 lbs). I was horribly ill at 7st, but it wasn't recognised by the medical profession. What *is* always recognised by the doctors is that now I'm always in the 'overweight' category on the BMI. It's true that right now I'm well above 10st (I think I'm 11) and could stand to lose some weight for the sake of my joints and other health co-morbidities that I have. But can you imagine what it feels like to be formerly anorexic (medically confirmed or not) and to be told *every single doctor visit* how overweight I am. Not helpful.

Eating disorders are real, complicated mental illnesses. And one of many social/psychological reasons why people can be 'overweight'.
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Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2014, 09:22:40 am »
Quote from: Naomi J;134794
But can you imagine what it feels like to be formerly anorexic (medically confirmed or not) and to be told *every single doctor visit* how overweight I am. Not helpful.

Eating disorders are real, complicated mental illnesses. And one of many social/psychological reasons why people can be 'overweight'.

I don't have to imagine it. I live it. Another reason I avoid doctors whenever I can, because being lectured about the body that wasn't good enough when it was thin either is triggery as hell. That's got to be awful, not having the option to avoid. (((Nay)))
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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2014, 02:41:28 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;134811
I don't have to imagine it. I live it. Another reason I avoid doctors whenever I can, because being lectured about the body that wasn't good enough when it was thin either is triggery as hell. That's got to be awful, not having the option to avoid. (((Nay)))

 
I don't like being weighed by doctors and nurses, who lecture on how overweight I am. I actually don't look it because the weight is centered on my thighs, being into hard physical regimes esp when I was a bit younger. I'm more muscle and hourglass framed but I don't care if people call me big.

I'm not going on any starvation diet just to knock off a couple of stone in weight. This is how I've always been. When I was measured and weighed at school, I wasn't skinny but frail looking, and the teacher said "you do eat a lot of big dinners." Meaning I weighed a lot for a girl my age back then.

Some people are at their healthiest size and weight, but because they don't fit in with the standard numbers, they're regarded as overweight.

Btw I was anorexic in my late 20's and I shrunk, because my clothes sizes changed but my weight on the scales barely altered.

Oíche

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2014, 11:54:19 am »
Quote from: Dark Midnight;134772
Agreed. I have a 12 year old child who, due to genetics, will always find it difficult to put on weight

 
I can empathize with her :(
I suffered with being very underweight most of my life (undiagnosed medical condition caused it) and when consulting a doctor recently because I was worried about slipping back he told me that due to my physical build and genetics (which is naturally very slight framed and short) I'm likely to remain very small and on the thin side but I just to watch myself to be careful.
At 21 I'm two inches taller than your 12 year old and am currently just about 84 pounds, when I was her age I was around 62 pounds or so- maybe slightly less.

Quote from: stephyjh;134811
I don't have to imagine it. I live it. Another reason I avoid doctors whenever I can, because being lectured about the body that wasn't good enough when it was thin either is triggery as hell. That's got to be awful, not having the option to avoid. (((Nay)))

 
<3 I've been there, still get it on occasion too.
I spent my childhood being scolded on a regular basis by hospital doctors about 'not eating enough' when now I know I'm very intolerant to most of the diet they were trying to put me on :(
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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2014, 02:08:57 pm »
Quote from: Cág;134927
I spent my childhood being scolded on a regular basis by hospital doctors about 'not eating enough' when now I know I'm very intolerant to most of the diet they were trying to put me on :(

 
Oh yeah, that can be a serious problem that falls under this heading. Lots of people are intolerant or simply unsuited to the diets that doctors want them to be on. With a wheat intolerance and, apparently, a need for a different mix of nutrients than some people, I end up more overweight and sicker on the diets they want to put me on. Getting them to listen to that is impossible, though, because they believe that, when it comes to food, one size fits all. :hdsk:
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Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2014, 02:09:15 pm »
Quote from: Cág;134927
I can empathize with her :(
I suffered with being very underweight most of my life (undiagnosed medical condition caused it) and when consulting a doctor recently because I was worried about slipping back he told me that due to my physical build and genetics (which is naturally very slight framed and short) I'm likely to remain very small and on the thin side but I just to watch myself to be careful.
At 21 I'm two inches taller than your 12 year old and am currently just about 84 pounds, when I was her age I was around 62 pounds or so- maybe slightly less.


 
<3 I've been there, still get it on occasion too.
I spent my childhood being scolded on a regular basis by hospital doctors about 'not eating enough' when now I know I'm very intolerant to most of the diet they were trying to put me on :(

I went to the doctor recently with weird cramps and muscle tingles and was berated for being fat without him asking about my diet at all... so yeah, I feel you. So many variables go into body composition and caloric intake is only one of them.
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rocquelaire

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Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2014, 03:17:27 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;134949
Oh yeah, that can be a serious problem that falls under this heading. Lots of people are intolerant or simply unsuited to the diets that doctors want them to be on. With a wheat intolerance and, apparently, a need for a different mix of nutrients than some people, I end up more overweight and sicker on the diets they want to put me on. Getting them to listen to that is impossible, though, because they believe that, when it comes to food, one size fits all. :hdsk:

And of course the only exercise that helps is cardio. I actually had a GP tell me that strength training was a waste of time and that I should try to go for a ten minute walk every day. At that time I regularly walked 3 miles a day!
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Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2014, 03:28:14 pm »
Quote from: rocquelaire;134962
And of course the only exercise that helps is cardio. I actually had a GP tell me that strength training was a waste of time and that I should try to go for a ten minute walk every day. At that time I regularly walked 3 miles a day!

????? That's an absolute riot. Strength training has a ton of benefits and is so much better on my back than endless cardio - not to mention the only exercise that nets me any change in body composition is, in fact, using weight machines.

Endless cardio.... it's a nightmare. Plus it's incredibly daunting! I think the national recommendations for America are something like 150 minutes a week of cardio /in addition to/ full body weight training twice a week. (Learned this in a health class a few years ago, take it with a grain of salt.) I get creaky in my back after 10 minutes of tread milling.
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yewberry

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2014, 03:34:10 pm »
Quote from: Sage;134963
Endless cardio.... it's a nightmare. Plus it's incredibly daunting! I think the national recommendations for America are something like 150 minutes a week of cardio /in addition to/ full body weight training twice a week. (Learned this in a health class a few years ago, take it with a grain of salt.) I get creaky in my back after 10 minutes of tread milling.


I'm one of those weirdos who really, really loves cardio and hates weight training.  I can walk a 14-minute mile without blinking an eye, but please, please, please don't make me lift heavy things for no reason!

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2014, 04:26:43 pm »
Quote from: Naomi J;134949
Oh yeah, that can be a serious problem that falls under this heading. Lots of people are intolerant or simply unsuited to the diets that doctors want them to be on. With a wheat intolerance and, apparently, a need for a different mix of nutrients than some people, I end up more overweight and sicker on the diets they want to put me on. Getting them to listen to that is impossible, though, because they believe that, when it comes to food, one size fits all. :hdsk:

It's wheat intolerance I have! XD (Alongside IBS)
The doctors were trying to get me to eat more food like bread, etc. which I recently discovered is the source of the bloating and ill feeling/severe pain I put up with all those years!

Quote from: Sage;134950
I went to the doctor recently with weird cramps and muscle tingles and was berated for being fat without him asking about my diet at all... so yeah, I feel you. So many variables go into body composition and caloric intake is only one of them.

Strangely, I had a way better diet than most I knew with similar problems with their diets at the time! O.o We ate healthy balanced home-cooked food with lots of veg and I never skipped meals! Very rarely ate junk food either :/

Quote from: rocquelaire;134962
And of course the only exercise that helps is cardio. I actually had a GP tell me that strength training was a waste of time and that I should try to go for a ten minute walk every day. At that time I regularly walked 3 miles a day!

I had that when I was a kid. I have asthma too and was told I need to exercise and do sports to help it. I currently walk an hour and a half to and fro for college every day and back then I walked 2 miles everyday for school pulling a heavy bag. XD That was on top of the various outdoor activities I did such as gymnastics, ballet and horse-riding XD
Only thing I can say is that both then and now I was quite toned and strong- especially my legs despite being skinny and with a 'thigh-gap'.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 04:28:29 pm by Oíche »
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britbeauty

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2014, 08:47:15 pm »
Quote from: mlr52;134560
Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?

See the photo and read more: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/plus-size-barbie-should-dolls-reflect-real-world-body-types-1.1609453#ixzz2p4ohg8vx

Although the doll is out, the question is still a vaild one.  Does it give childern the idea that being big is ok?, Does it promote accecptance of ones self and others?  Or does it promote an unhealthy body image?

 

Could there not be a all natural average sized barbie? Or does she have to be this dolled up (mind the pun!) below average blonde girl? I think if the media wants to promote a healthy lifestyle and way of living, then they should make this.

stephyjh

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2014, 08:54:45 pm »
Quote from: britbeauty;136080
Could there not be a all natural average sized barbie? Or does she have to be this dolled up (mind the pun!) below average blonde girl? I think if the media wants to promote a healthy lifestyle and way of living, then they should make this.

 
I think "below average" is a very rude and insulting term to use for either Barbie.
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That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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beith

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Re: Plus-size Barbie: Should dolls reflect real-world body types?
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2014, 09:40:07 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;136083
I think "below average" is a very rude and insulting term to use for either Barbie.

 
I read "below average" to mean below the average woman's weight, due to the use of "average-sized" earlier in their post.  I can't speak for britbeauty though, of course, so hopefully they get a chance to respond and clarify what they meant by "below average".

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