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Author Topic: Spirits, and such. Advice please?  (Read 2476 times)

Jewitch

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Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« on: July 27, 2012, 03:31:48 am »
My husband and I have recently learned that our spirits have been together for a very long time. That not only have we been previously hand-fastened but that we have been siblings, lovers, friends. As much as it elates us to know this, because it explains a lot in our relationship, it is also difficult. Maybe even scary. Not to mention a heck of a lot of pressure not to screw it up in this life time.

How do you deal with this sort of information? And the jealousy that comes from people whom you have told about the connect?
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Annie Roonie

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 04:26:55 am »
Quote from: Jewitch;66234
How do you deal with this sort of information? And the jealousy that comes from people whom you have told about the connect?

I have never been told that kind of information and, no offense intended, had someone told me that about my husband, I would have doubted it. But he is now my ex so clearly I had a different situation.  :whis:

I am not sure why people are jealous of your having that information. Like you note, such a thing seems like it could be problematic at times. Nothing to be jealous of - unless somehow they think it gives your relationship some status over their relationships? This is something I don't understand. I am sorry I could not help you!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 04:27:23 am by Annie Roonie »

monsnoleedra

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 04:46:33 am »
Quote from: Jewitch;66234
My husband and I have recently learned that our spirits have been together for a very long time. That not only have we been previously hand-fastened but that we have been siblings, lovers, friends. As much as it elates us to know this, because it explains a lot in our relationship, it is also difficult. Maybe even scary. Not to mention a heck of a lot of pressure not to screw it up in this life time.

How do you deal with this sort of information? And the jealousy that comes from people whom you have told about the connect?


Truthfully I'd ask first how you learnt of this information?  Especially given that Hand-fasting is really a new term and not something historically recorded earlier than the Wiccan movement (1950's)  to my knowledge.  Makes one suspious to my mindset.

Faemon

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 05:41:09 am »
Quote from: Jewitch;66234
How do you deal with this sort of information?
I've been fortunate enough to be raised in an environment where reincarnation is kind of taken for granted. Like, to the point that "I married someone in this life who was my sibling in a past life" just doesn't squick me with the suggestion of incest.

I wouldn't be elated, because it's normal. It wouldn't explain anything, because it's stating the obvious. It's like saying the sky is blue because the sun rose in the east today. Nothing to be envious... or, even, excited about.

It would be weirder if somebody I formed a deep bond with, didn't build some of that spiritual resonance by crossing paths with me in a past life. That would be pressure, like not offending an acquaintance and making bonds of bad blood to follow in a future life. But... I don't really look for that, you know? Our memories were lost for a reason. The memories will return when they will, if they will-- but the most significant life is most likely the present one.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 05:41:50 am by Faemon »
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Jewitch

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 02:25:22 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;66239
Nothing to be jealous of - unless somehow they think it gives your relationship some status over their relationships?


This is exactly why I have been shown jealousy. I only told a few close people this but I have been met with a lot of 'I am sure that they would say the same about me and my spouse/partner/ect'
 
Quote from: monsnoleedra;66240
Truthfully I'd ask first how you learnt of this information?  Especially given that Hand-fasting is really a new term and not something historically recorded earlier than the Wiccan movement (1950's)  to my knowledge.  Makes one suspious to my mindset.


Well I should first say that I am not Wiccan and I was told this by a native american wise-woman. And while the term is fairly new in the wiccan movement the act is very similar to acts done in various cultures for years.
 
Quote from: triple_entendre;66242
I've been fortunate enough to be raised in an environment where reincarnation is kind of taken for granted. Like, to the point that "I married someone in this life who was my sibling in a past life" just doesn't squick me with the suggestion of incest.

I wouldn't be elated, because it's normal. It wouldn't explain anything, because it's stating the obvious. It's like saying the sky is blue because the sun rose in the east today. Nothing to be envious... or, even, excited about.

It would be weirder if somebody I formed a deep bond with, didn't build some of that spiritual resonance by crossing paths with me in a past life. That would be pressure, like not offending an acquaintance and making bonds of bad blood to follow in a future life. But... I don't really look for that, you know? Our memories were lost for a reason. The memories will return when they will, if they will-- but the most significant life is most likely the present one.


Ah I should have problem elaborated. The women also told us that our spirits had unfinished business that we previously have no been able to carry out together, which is mostly the scary part.
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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 05:02:31 pm »
Hi. Spiritual emotional manipulation of this kind is sort of one of my hot buttons. And I'm worried that's what you got handed.

Quote from: Jewitch;66280

Well I should first say that I am not Wiccan and I was told this by a native american wise-woman. And while the term is fairly new in the wiccan movement the act is very similar to acts done in various cultures for years.


It is. But using that term, in that way should be a red flag. Someone coming from a different cultural or religious perspective should be using *their* culture's term for it. (Unless what she said was something like "[Thing], which is sort of like - are you familiar with the term handfasting?" and used it as an explanation.)

There are a lot of people out there claiming to be Native American wise women or wise men who are neither particularly Native American in background or training, nor particularly wise. There's no way we, here, second hand, can tell you for sure, but it's always good to be cautious when getting advice from people who tell you this kind of thing without a lot of other context.

Quote

Ah I should have problem elaborated. The women also told us that our spirits had unfinished business that we previously have no been able to carry out together, which is mostly the scary part.

 
Here's my take on *anyone* trying to give me that kind of general commentary:

1) Take it in. No sense wasting a source of information.

2) Keep it in quarantine. Does this information match up with other sources of info? My own sense of how the world works? What people I respect have told me? What my own sources of connection to deity or other entities have told me? What divination has told me? I try to match anything I get - and *especially* from people who I don't have a known personal track record for - with at least three sources of cross-checking, and over a reasonable period of time.

(There are, oh, three or four people - and I've been doing this Pagan thing for about 12 years now, and have a bunch of community connections and friends and people I've done deep intense work with over an extended period of time - where if they said "Jenett, this thing, here" - where I wouldn't automatically do that kind of cross-checking in detail first. And even with them, there are topics I still cross-check on, and I still cross-check whenever possible. Make sure people can support the trust you give them.)

3) Apply reason and questions.

You can sit down and rationally go "Ok, what would I do differently if this thing *were* true?" So in your case: what would you do differently if you really did decide that there was unfinished business between you and your spouse that you wanted to fix?

You might decide that you want to carve out more time for the two of you to work on a particular goal. Or just talk. Or figure out a way to solve problems together better. Or push your lives in a different direction (in terms of work, where you live, how you spend your time.) But make those choices consciously, together, and not just because someone tells you there's this Big Important Quest in your lives. Do it because there's other reasons to do it.

If there really *is* a Big Important Quest in your lives, well, chances are your lives will line up so that going that direction becomes the more and more obvious choice. If there isn't, making thoughtful, caring, loving decisions after a suitable amount of rational discussion that you and your spouse agree on isn't a bad thing. Making changes just because someone points you that way, or makes you feel pressure from some spiritual thing is. One of these is pretty clearly a better pick than the other.
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 05:24:11 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;66299
Hi. Spiritual emotional manipulation of this kind is sort of one of my hot buttons. And I'm worried that's what you got handed.



It is. But using that term, in that way should be a red flag. Someone coming from a different cultural or religious perspective should be using *their* culture's term for it. (Unless what she said was something like "[Thing], which is sort of like - are you familiar with the term handfasting?" and used it as an explanation.)

There are a lot of people out there claiming to be Native American wise women or wise men who are neither particularly Native American in background or training, nor particularly wise. There's no way we, here, second hand, can tell you for sure, but it's always good to be cautious when getting advice from people who tell you this kind of thing without a lot of other context.

..

All I can say is here here.  You said so much better what I had written that I decided not to post my reply.

The only question I would add is why does the OP equate another's disbelief to being jealous of thier supposed specialness?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 05:24:46 pm by monsnoleedra »

Jewitch

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 05:37:34 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;66302
All I can say is here here.  You said so much better what I had written that I decided not to post my reply.

The only question I would add is why does the OP equate another's disbelief to being jealous of thier supposed specialness?

 
If you would have read what I said you would see that is not why I think people are jealous. I think people are jealous because as said previously was when I have told people that they have said I am sure that me or my spouse/partner/ect have the same background. And of course the tone in which they have responded to me.

I am not proclaiming to be special. I am just trying to find a way to deal with the information I have been given.
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Jewitch

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 05:38:50 pm »
Quote from: Jenett;66299
Hi. Spiritual emotional manipulation of this kind is sort of one of my hot buttons. And I'm worried that's what you got handed.



It is. But using that term, in that way should be a red flag. Someone coming from a different cultural or religious perspective should be using *their* culture's term for it. (Unless what she said was something like "[Thing], which is sort of like - are you familiar with the term handfasting?" and used it as an explanation.)

There are a lot of people out there claiming to be Native American wise women or wise men who are neither particularly Native American in background or training, nor particularly wise. There's no way we, here, second hand, can tell you for sure, but it's always good to be cautious when getting advice from people who tell you this kind of thing without a lot of other context.


 
Here's my take on *anyone* trying to give me that kind of general commentary:

1) Take it in. No sense wasting a source of information.

2) Keep it in quarantine. Does this information match up with other sources of info? My own sense of how the world works? What people I respect have told me? What my own sources of connection to deity or other entities have told me? What divination has told me? I try to match anything I get - and *especially* from people who I don't have a known personal track record for - with at least three sources of cross-checking, and over a reasonable period of time.

(There are, oh, three or four people - and I've been doing this Pagan thing for about 12 years now, and have a bunch of community connections and friends and people I've done deep intense work with over an extended period of time - where if they said "Jenett, this thing, here" - where I wouldn't automatically do that kind of cross-checking in detail first. And even with them, there are topics I still cross-check on, and I still cross-check whenever possible. Make sure people can support the trust you give them.)

3) Apply reason and questions.

You can sit down and rationally go "Ok, what would I do differently if this thing *were* true?" So in your case: what would you do differently if you really did decide that there was unfinished business between you and your spouse that you wanted to fix?

You might decide that you want to carve out more time for the two of you to work on a particular goal. Or just talk. Or figure out a way to solve problems together better. Or push your lives in a different direction (in terms of work, where you live, how you spend your time.) But make those choices consciously, together, and not just because someone tells you there's this Big Important Quest in your lives. Do it because there's other reasons to do it.

If there really *is* a Big Important Quest in your lives, well, chances are your lives will line up so that going that direction becomes the more and more obvious choice. If there isn't, making thoughtful, caring, loving decisions after a suitable amount of rational discussion that you and your spouse agree on isn't a bad thing. Making changes just because someone points you that way, or makes you feel pressure from some spiritual thing is. One of these is pretty clearly a better pick than the other.


Thank you for the suggestions, I will talk to my husband.
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 05:57:15 pm »
Quote from: Jewitch;66304
If you would have read what I said you would see that is not why I think people are jealous. I think people are jealous because as said previously was when I have told people that they have said I am sure that me or my spouse/partner/ect have the same background. And of course the tone in which they have responded to me.

I am not proclaiming to be special. I am just trying to find a way to deal with the information I have been given.

Interesting.  I did read it.  By having a person say they'd get the same reading if they went to the same person implies disbelief in your position and conclusions.  Probability wise a disbelief in the ability or truthfulness of the person you went to as well.  Then stating that disbelief in such a manner as to suggest its something everyone would have received potentialy shows why they have settled upon such a position.  Not only settled upon it but reply in such a way as to indicate they are making light of your willingness to accept it or suggest it.

The only party appearing to display jealousy seems to be you.  That jealousy being derived from thier not being willing to accept your special message and have received some sort of unique message indicating such.

That not even touching upon the termonology being used to suggest its from a Native American Wise-Woman.  Though I admit its possible to give that aspect a bit more creditability if we knew where this encounter took place.  For instance some store in town, highly dis-believable, occuring at some Pow-Wow where the woman just walked up to you a bit more probable as she would have nothing to gain and no payment received.

Yet if any money changed hands then even more improbable in my opinion.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 06:01:31 pm by monsnoleedra »

Nyktipolos

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 06:34:05 pm »
Quote from: monsnoleedra;66309
Yet if any money changed hands then even more improbable in my opinion.

 
I wouldn't say that's entirely an indicator that this woman is a fraud. Plenty of people take money (or other services) when doing divination for others, Native people included. I'd be more suspect in HOW money was exchanged, and also the setting in which it took place. (And also, what kind of tools were used.)
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monsnoleedra

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 06:43:47 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;66314
I wouldn't say that's entirely an indicator that this woman is a fraud. Plenty of people take money (or other services) when doing divination for others, Native people included. I'd be more suspect in HOW money was exchanged, and also the setting in which it took place. (And also, what kind of tools were used.)


I think for me so many I have spoken to go out of their way to show its a gifting that I never think of it now as taking money.  When I hear specifically of 'Gifts" being sold I think of charlatan though I admit that is more personal bias than anything.  
I do agree though the HOW it was exchanged and the setting is a big one.

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Re: Spirits, and such. Advice please?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2012, 09:26:30 am »
Quote from: Jewitch;66234
My husband and I have recently learned that our spirits have been together for a very long time.


I have one person that I connected with quickly and seamlessly. Even though we don't live together or even follow a common relationship path, we don't skip a beat when we are together. I honestly don't miss him when I can't be with him and texting and phone calls are enough for me. We are only physically together once a year. I personally think that we were together in a past life. Like others have said, resonance. If you have found someone you resonate with, good for you.

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