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Author Topic: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety  (Read 10618 times)

Etheric1

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2012, 10:24:45 pm »
Quote from: Altair;47711
I'm holding you and Etheric personally responsible for my pain.

I know a woman, married to a famous man and richer than Midas, and you'd never know it to talk to her. She's utterly down to earth--and a devout Christian Scientist. You'd never know that either.

That the way to do it. That's what I respect.

 
Honestly, I'd rather have seen him with a team like the Browns.  That's where any NFL athlete goes to have their career die.

Seriously though, I think he'll be forgotten quickly.  He's going to get the crap knocked out of him by the teams in that division.  The Patriots humiliated him twice last year, and Buffalo did as well.   Even Miami beat him often, even though he did manage to pull out a win there.  

I'm still waiting for him to play the Ravens and I will be watching with popcorn for Ray Lewis to break him in half we he tries to run on them.
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Etheric1

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2012, 10:25:59 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;47684
I absolutely hate Tim Tebow.

At first, I thought he was pretty brave to be so up front about his faith. Then it started to become highly annoying and now it's just down right obnoxious.

The NFL, not to mention mainstream society, would never tolerate a pagan's overly religious celebrations and salutes in the end zones and on the side lines in public, and the audience would have a field day with it. So why in the hell should people have to tolerate it with Tim Tebow??? We shouldn't.

They need to start fining his rear end every single time he does that in the games and that would wipe that crap out in a hurry. I'm sick and tired of the double standards when it comes to Christians being able to subject everyone to their religious piety.

 
x2.  Well said!
No matter how dark the fur, the bunny is still fluffy. - Mel\'s Law of Dark Fluffs.
Nothing is more despicable than respect based on fear. – Albert Camus
You can easily judge the character of a person by how they treat those who can do nothing for them. - unknown
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MadZealot

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2012, 10:31:04 pm »
Quote from: Altair;47711
I'm holding you and Etheric personally responsible for my pain.
I'm laughing all day about Tebow's leaving Denver.  
I'm a Bronco fan.  (yes, I'm an archaic male, a real knuckle-dragger)  And I'm glad to see him go.  
It was great to see his 'revival' (sorry, too easy) of the team during the season and put together a nice winning streak.  But I don't want to hear about his piety, I want to hear about how many passes he can complete, how many points he can get on the board.

There are  lots of folks I admire: Stephen King, Martin Gore, Bono, Ronan Harris... but I don't give a shit who they pray to.  It's not why I like them.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 10:33:35 pm by MadZealot »
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LiminalAuggie

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2012, 10:59:00 pm »
Quote from: Annie Roonie;47702
Every time I hear this happen I think of the several Bible passages that actually warn against this kind of thing in way; especially in the New Testament where the rewards are meant to be in heaven and those given on earth almost mar an existence. The beatitudes come to mind too. The meek shall inherit and the last shall be first, not the one with the Oscar or best pr tactic. But that's my cherry picking too.

 
I try to actively avoid knowing anything about professional sports and up until a few months ago I had no idea what a Tebow was. Alas, I weep for my innocence.
I do recall former Rams QB Kurt Warner, who is evangelical himself, saying something in some sports publication basically taking Tebow to task for being so vocal and thanking God for every victory. I think the jist of it was something like he ought to be selling the faith with his deeds, not his words. And I don't think winning at sports really counts as good deeds.

And that approach I can totally get behind, despite my disagreements with the faith in question. Why are you praying to God to help you win a football game when there are a lot more important things you could be praying to God for? Also, chances are good the folks on the opposing team are also praying to God for victory so what exactly is the point here? Do the prayers cancel each other out? Do you honestly believe that like, your prayers are better than the other peoples' prayers and that's why you win? What is the objective here? Seriously can someone explain it to me because I have tried to understand why SportsPrayer happens and I just cannot wrap my head about it.

Auress

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2012, 11:01:32 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;47686
I know nothing about Tim Tebow except that he's a football player and a Christian.  We're not a "sports family".  What's he doing that's problematic?

Brina



Basically, Tebow kneels and salutes the sky every time his team makes a good play, a touchdown or wins the game. He's got a cult following in the colleges and such now and the students are "Tebowing" and getting not only reprimanded for it, but suspended in certain cases.

At first, it was really no big deal. But, after about the first couple games the media jumped on it and started to make it into a bigger deal than it needed to be. Mostly with praise for what a great guy Tebow was and how wonderful his faith in God was.

They were right. Tebow is a fabulous guy, and his faith in God is fabulous.......it's just hella annoying and downright obnoxious when thrown in people's faces the way it has been.

I was sort of upset at his ad for the Superbowl in 2011, when his mother and he decided to talk about how he came to be born. Most people didn't want to admit that it was an anti-abortion ad, but it was. No matter what your stance on abortion, THAT subject has no bloody business at the Superbowl in the commercials. So, I already didn't really like the little whelp.

Fact of the matter is, the NFL wouldn't tolerate it from any other religion, I don't know why they're making such an exception for him. Plus, NFL players get fined every bloody day for excessive celebrations in the end zones. They need to start doing that to Tebow because that's what it is.

Melamphoros

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2012, 11:08:22 pm »
Quote from: LiminalAuggie;47723
I try to actively avoid knowing anything about professional sports and up until a few months ago I had no idea what a Tebow was. Alas, I weep for my innocence.


I didn't know what a Tebow was until a few hours ago when I first read this thread.  If you think that's bad, I didn't know (or more likely, remember) who fought in this year's Super Bowl until someone mentioned it in this thread.  I don't know who won, but it doesn't really matter to me.

*reads last paragraph*

Is it strange that I take pride in things that probably alienate me from society at large?

Quote

Also, chances are good the folks on the opposing team are also praying to God for victory so what exactly is the point here? Do the prayers cancel each other out? Do you honestly believe that like, your prayers are better than the other peoples' prayers and that's why you win? What is the objective here? Seriously can someone explain it to me because I have tried to understand why SportsPrayer happens and I just cannot wrap my head about it.

 
I distinctly remember a sitcom (I want to say it was Third Rock From The Sun) where this was poked fun of.


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MadZealot

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2012, 11:23:08 pm »
Quote from: LiminalAuggie;47723
I think the jist of it was something like he ought to be selling the faith with his deeds, not his words. And I don't think winning at sports really counts as good deeds.  

 Funny, I think Jesus said the same thing.  "Faith without works is dead."  "Show me faith without works, and I'll show you faith through works." nuff said.

Quote
Why are you praying to God to help you win a football game when there are a lot more important things you could be praying to God for? Also, chances are good the folks on the opposing team are also praying to God for victory so what exactly is the point here? Do the prayers cancel each other out?

Interesting theological conundrum, innit?  It's like the Crusades, but with beer ads.  
Personally, I don't think the Creator of the unverse gives one metric shit about football, any more than S/He/It does about music or movies.  Think of the typical grammy-type show, where the winning artist wants to thank Gaaaawd for his success.  I get an old-man-in-the-sky image in my head, the Creator thinking 'oh, Me, please... don't thank me for that, that song's utter crap...."
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sailor

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2012, 11:35:00 pm »
Quote from: Vermillion;47725
Basically, Tebow kneels and salutes the sky every time his team makes a good play, a touchdown or wins the game. He's got a cult following in the colleges and such now and the students are "Tebowing" and getting not only reprimanded for it, but suspended in certain cases.

Fact of the matter is, the NFL wouldn't tolerate it from any other religion, I don't know why they're making such an exception for him. Plus, NFL players get fined every bloody day for excessive celebrations in the end zones. They need to start doing that to Tebow because that's what it is.

 
Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds?  If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door.  Now, I"ve heard of students getting punished for blocking hallways or disrupting classes for the physical action time & place of Tebowing.

Tebow's celebration apparently falls within the guidelines of the NFL.  He kneels and whatever in a very short time.  Or are you proposing that the NFL have a special rule against religious expression?   If so, the NFL will go broke paying him for civil rights violations.

MadZealot

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2012, 11:39:18 pm »
Quote from: sailor;47738
Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds?  If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door.


No citations here, but I've seen at least one article.  Seriously, I had to google 'tebowing.'
Problem is, who's gonna bring suit?  The kids' parents on their own might not have the money to see it through, and a group like the ACLU might or might not have the balls to do its job.
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Asch

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2012, 11:41:33 pm »
Quote from: sailor;47738
Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds?  If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door.  Now, I"ve heard of students getting punished for blocking hallways or disrupting classes for the physical action time & place of Tebowing.

Tebow's celebration apparently falls within the guidelines of the NFL.  He kneels and whatever in a very short time.  Or are you proposing that the NFL have a special rule against religious expression?   If so, the NFL will go broke paying him for civil rights violations.

 
Banning it solely because it is religious would be problematic, however banning it based on the ridiculous amount of media coverage it's receving and its defacto distracting nature because of it might be feasible

Nachtigall

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2012, 07:10:20 am »
Quote from: Altair;47678

Am I overreacting? Is he worthy of scorn? Or are his public pieties harmless? Or maybe his devotion to his beliefs should even be applauded? What's your take?

 
Frankly, yes. I don't know who Tim Tebow is, and I can judge only by the articles cited in this thread - but yes, if the fact that someone thanks their god for their accomplishments on public bothers you, and you consider it "enforcing religious hegemony", in my opinion you are overreacting.

Nachtigall

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2012, 07:16:59 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;47735

Interesting theological conundrum, innit?  It's like the Crusades, but with beer ads.  
Personally, I don't think the Creator of the unverse gives one metric shit about football, any more than S/He/It does about music or movies.  Think of the typical grammy-type show, where the winning artist wants to thank Gaaaawd for his success.  I get an old-man-in-the-sky image in my head, the Creator thinking 'oh, Me, please... don't thank me for that, that song's utter crap...."

 
I'm not necessarily disagreed with you, but one encounters this type of thinking in Pagan community all the time. "Deity X helped me find a boyfriend", "deity Y helped me get the job I wanted", "deity Z helped me with my psychological issues", etc. How is it different from "Jesus helped me get the music award"?

HeartShadow

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2012, 07:56:48 am »
Quote from: Nachtigall;47770
I'm not necessarily disagreed with you, but one encounters this type of thinking in Pagan community all the time. "Deity X helped me find a boyfriend", "deity Y helped me get the job I wanted", "deity Z helped me with my psychological issues", etc. How is it different from "Jesus helped me get the music award"?

 
I think there's also a difference between *God X helped me with problem Y* and *Jesus is my best bud and makes everything shiiiiiiny!*  And we tend to hear much more of the second one.  (Buddy Jesus, anyone?)

And as far as I'm concerned, they're not displaying piety - they're diminishing their god.  "I'm soooo important God cares that I got a touchdown!  go God!" .. REALLY?  REALLY?  God is some old guy on a recliner watching football?  Probably with a beer and pretzels?  REALLY?

It's not illegal or anything, but GODS is it annoying as fuck!

MadZealot

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2012, 08:04:43 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;47775
I think there's also a difference between *God X helped me with problem Y* and *Jesus is my best bud and makes everything shiiiiiiny!*  And we tend to hear much more of the second one.  (Buddy Jesus, anyone?)

And as far as I'm concerned, they're not displaying piety - they're diminishing their god.  "I'm soooo important God cares that I got a touchdown!  go God!" .. REALLY?  REALLY?  God is some old guy on a recliner watching football?  Probably with a beer and pretzels?  REALLY?

It's not illegal or anything, but GODS is it annoying as fuck!


Yep.  Pretty much this.  While I was trying to compose a reply you beat me to it...
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Auress

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2012, 08:13:24 am »
Quote from: sailor;47738
Do you have a citation for students getting suspended for Tebowing on religious grounds?  If so, that is one school district that is about to go broke. Students do not lose their 1st amendment rights at the school door.  Now, I"ve heard of students getting punished for blocking hallways or disrupting classes for the physical action time & place of Tebowing.

Tebow's celebration apparently falls within the guidelines of the NFL.  He kneels and whatever in a very short time.  Or are you proposing that the NFL have a special rule against religious expression?   If so, the NFL will go broke paying him for civil rights violations.


I don't have any citations, right now, but I could do some digging. The events I've heard about happened back the end of November or so, just as the Tebow fever was ramping up and he was getting serious media attention.

Basically, students were gathering en masse and Tebowing out in the courtyard or something. They got reprimanded for it. I don't exactly agree with the suspensions (if those are true, you never know even when it's reported by news), but I definitely think that the religion in public places has gotten far, far out of control and Mr. Tebow hasn't done us any favors.

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