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Author Topic: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety  (Read 10617 times)

victoreia

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2013, 01:32:49 am »
Quote from: Altair;97731
It strikes me as either proselytizing, an attempt to impose religious hegemony, insecurity, or a combo of all three.

Nobody else cares what your spiritual beliefs are (or they shouldn't). Just as nobody else cares who you're banging (or they shouldn't). Public displays of piety are as tacky to me as public displays of affection; you might as well have a heavy petting session on a crowded city bus while you're at it.

Private is private. But I guess that's just me.


THIS. Seriously, this.
 
Quote from: MattyG;97957
I suppose, but I just wonder, do you feel the same about Muslims bowing to Mecca in public? I think there's a difference between performing a personal act of prayer in a public place, and trying to convert the masses. I just don't like telling people where they are and aren't allowed to pray so long as 1) they're not being disruptive to normal, peaceable behavior, and 2) they're not an authority figure leading unwilling underlings in prayer.

 
It's my understanding that Muslims bowing to Mecca in public is a requirement of their religion; like Jews not working on the Sabbath or not eating pork. They're (as far as I know) not trying to make a spectacle or grab attention. They aren't doing it to show off.

I find it irritating that so many people feel the need to brag about how devout and/or pious they are. The only opinions about an individual's devotion to his/her deity(-ities) that should matter are the individual's and that of  the god(s) involved.
Do. Or do not. There is no try.  --Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back

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MadZealot

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2013, 01:40:12 am »
Quote from: victoreia;77551
Oh, give me a break! (And I can just imagine someone screaming "free speech" as soon as he tries to sue somebody.....)


"Free speech" or "fair use," depending on context.
Spider Man 3 never happened. Change my mind.

Nyktipolos

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2013, 02:11:02 am »
Quote from: MattyG;97959
Sorry, but am I the only one who thinks it's incredibly inappropriate to compare public prayer to sexual assault? It's incredibly disrespectful to victims of rape and with this metaphor, specifically molested children. That's just my opinion though. Maybe I'm overly sensitive.

 
No, you're not the only person who is (incredibly) bothered by it.
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Nyktipolos

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2013, 02:15:35 am »
Quote from: victoreia;97960
It's my understanding that Muslims bowing to Mecca in public is a requirement of their religion;


It's one of the five pillars of Islam (salah), but there's no requirement about being public. The point is more along the lines of praying (with gestures) at five specific times during the day, and you're always facing towards Mecca while doing so.
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
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Owl

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2013, 05:27:52 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;97959
Sorry, but am I the only one who thinks it's incredibly inappropriate to compare public prayer to sexual assault? It's incredibly disrespectful to victims of rape and with this metaphor, specifically molested children. That's just my opinion though. Maybe I'm overly sensitive.

 
Perhaps you've never had religion shoved down your child's throat.  I have, and the analogy is good for me.  And knowing my daughter (now an adult), she would laugh if someone flashed her, but go ballistic if someone shoved religion down her (soon to be born) child's throat.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

MattyG

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2013, 05:50:55 pm »
Quote from: victoreia;97960
It's my understanding that Muslims bowing to Mecca in public is a requirement of their religion; like Jews not working on the Sabbath or not eating pork. They're (as far as I know) not trying to make a spectacle or grab attention. They aren't doing it to show off.


To be fair, many Christians view evangelism as a requirement of their religion. It can certainly be annoying, but I'd personally say that, as long as they're not being aggressive or disruptive, there's no reason to get too angry.
 
Quote from: Owl;98140
Perhaps you've never had religion shoved down your child's throat.  I have, and the analogy is good for me.  And knowing my daughter (now an adult), she would laugh if someone flashed her, but go ballistic if someone shoved religion down her (soon to be born) child's throat.

 
Unless you've had both religion and a penis shoved down your child's throat, I don't think you're allowed to state that it's an apt analogy. And even if you don't mind being sexually violated, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't respect that it's an incredibly sensitive issue for victims. I highly doubt that if someone told you about their being molested as a child, you'd respond with "I know just how you feel. One time I had Mormons knock on my door." This thread isn't about people who were raised in abusive, religious environments, or people who were actively oppressed by an authority figure. This is about a football player doing a brief prayer on television. The analogy is, IMO, disrespectful and insensitive.

Owl

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2013, 08:43:52 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;98150
To be fair, many Christians view evangelism as a requirement of their religion. It can certainly be annoying, but I'd personally say that, as long as they're not being aggressive or disruptive, there's no reason to get too angry.
 

 
Unless you've had both religion and a penis shoved down your child's throat, I don't think you're allowed to state that it's an apt analogy. And even if you don't mind being sexually violated, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't respect that it's an incredibly sensitive issue for victims. I highly doubt that if someone told you about their being molested as a child, you'd respond with "I know just how you feel. One time I had Mormons knock on my door." This thread isn't about people who were raised in abusive, religious environments, or people who were actively oppressed by an authority figure. This is about a football player doing a brief prayer on television. The analogy is, IMO, disrespectful and insensitive.

Excuse me!  I WAS NOT talking about Mormons at the front door.  That would not even begin to qualify.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

MattyG

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2013, 08:57:18 pm »
Quote from: Owl;98176
Excuse me!  I WAS NOT talking about Mormons at the front door.  That would not even begin to qualify.

 
I'm sorry, but seeing as you've posted these comments in a thread about a football player kneeling on a field, I could only assume that you were addressing issues at a similar level of religious expression. Nonetheless, I still maintain that comparing these actions to child molestation is insensitive, to say the least. Perhaps Godwin's Law should be expanded to include child molesters.

stephyjh

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Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2013, 10:49:01 pm »
Quote from: Owl;98140
Perhaps you've never had religion shoved down your child's throat.  I have, and the analogy is good for me.  And knowing my daughter (now an adult), she would laugh if someone flashed her, but go ballistic if someone shoved religion down her (soon to be born) child's throat.

Or perhaps those who say it have never actually had a penis forced down their throat. I have. Just sayin'. That expression is fine for me as long as it stops at waving it around, but when it starts likening words to sexual assault, that's different.

In other news, there's one person in my life who has seen me pray. As mentioned upthread, private is private.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

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stephyjh

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Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #129 on: February 25, 2013, 12:00:57 am »
Quote from: stephyjh;98195
Or perhaps those who say it have never actually had a penis forced down their throat. I have. Just sayin'. That expression is fine for me as long as it stops at waving it around, but when it starts likening words to sexual assault, that's different.

In other news, there's one person in my life who has seen me pray. As mentioned upthread, private is private.

Also, when one's personal life becomes public, that's tacky as shit. When one makes their personal life public in order to push their opinions on others, that's a choice to violate the boundaries of others. And it's wrong.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

Altair

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #130 on: February 25, 2013, 12:43:01 am »
Quote from: MattyG;97957
I suppose, but I just wonder, do you feel the same about Muslims bowing to Mecca in public?


Good question. It depends on context, I suppose. People gathering in a public place for prayer doesn't bother me, as a general rule. That's the purpose they've gathered for, and for whatever reason (wanting an outdoor service, for example), they're doing it in a public place. There's no chance that other participants in the activity are going to be subjected to displays of piety unwillingly, since they're all there for that purpose.

It's the folks who feel the need to inject it into nonreligious activities in an ostentatious manner who grate. The inside of one's skull serves quite nicely for that, thank you.

Please note that I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it's tacky.
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
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DashesAgainst

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #131 on: February 25, 2013, 04:27:22 am »
Quote from: Altair;98225

Please note that I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying it's tacky.

 
Regarding Tebow - Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible that one should pray to God behind closed doors, in one's innermost chamber, or something like that?  Iow, in private?

I can understand him not wanting to hide or be ashamed of his faith when asked, or to display his piety in a more religious setting - but football?  I agree, it's tacky. If he's serious about his God's involvement in his game, I don't see why he can't pray before the game, and give thanks afterwards, in private.  I wouldn't think his God would be in any hurry!

But, meh, that's just me.   As long as someone isn't pushing their beliefs on me, and they're not breaking any rules/laws, then to each his own.  I won't be praising them for their "piety," though!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 04:29:09 am by DashesAgainst »
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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #132 on: February 25, 2013, 09:55:09 am »
Quote from: SeaShine;98248
Regarding Tebow - Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible that one should pray to God behind closed doors, in one's innermost chamber, or something like that?  Iow, in private?

 
And concludes that those who pray in private will recieve spiritual gifts in private, and those who pray in public in order to get public attention have already gotten their gifts.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

DashesAgainst

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #133 on: February 25, 2013, 04:49:00 pm »
Quote from: Darkhawk;98291
And concludes that those who pray in private will recieve spiritual gifts in private, and those who pray in public in order to get public attention have already gotten their gifts.


Interesting.  Thanks!
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Owl

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Re: Tim Tebow & public displays of piety
« Reply #134 on: February 26, 2013, 06:11:41 pm »
Quote from: stephyjh;98213
Also, when one's personal life becomes public, that's tacky as shit. When one makes their personal life public in order to push their opinions on others, that's a choice to violate the boundaries of others. And it's wrong.

 Exactly!
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

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