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Author Topic: Public Displays of Spirituality  (Read 2331 times)

MattyG

Public Displays of Spirituality
« on: February 25, 2013, 01:09:42 am »
So I often find myself winding up on the unpopular side of arguments about appropriate displays of spirituality in public (I have rather wide personal boundaries), so I was hoping to maybe get a bit of clarification on everyone's opinions. I've made, to the best of my knowledge, a list of the most common forms of public displays of religion. I've put them in order from least offensive to most offensive, IMO, and I was hoping you could let me know what you think. Where do you draw the line for yourself? Where do you draw the line for others socially? Where do you draw the line for others legally? Would you reorder anything on the list? Would you add or alter anything? I'm honestly curious.

Clothing: Wearing pentacles, crucifixes, turbans, etc.

Small to elaborate personal prayer: Crossing oneself, reciting a prayer to oneself, other small, ritual actions, etc.

Small group prayer/celebration: Any kind of small prayer/religious group meeting in a public place, minding their own business, but loud enough that they can be heard.

Friend-to-Friend (possibly acquaintance) Discussion: A friend or close acquaintance broaches the topic of religion, possibly inviting you to a service or ritual. (Clearly the tact of this one depends on how well acquainted you are.)

Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing: Blessed Be, God bless you, Dia Duit, Merry Christmas, etc.

Larger personal prayer: Bowing to Mecca, shouting "Hallelujah" for personal celebration, (I don't know how common this is, but I did see what I believe was a Buddhist chanting in a moderately loud voice on the street once), etc.

Polite Strangers Who Back off When Turned Down: Handing out pamphlets for churches or school, pagan groups, maybe a quick "Would you like to hear about Jesus," etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

Street Preachers (Being annoying, but not hateful): Name says it all.

Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested): Name says it all.

Strangers, Street Preachers, and Door to Door Evangelists (Being aggressive and rude, but not necessarily hate speech): Name says it all.

Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior: Name says it all.

People Using Secular Positions of Authority to Preach or Discriminate: Teachers, bosses, politicians, etc.

Personally, I draw my own personal line at "Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing." That's just how I express myself sometimes. For others, I draw the social line at "Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested)". So long as I don't have to open the door when they knock, or they're willing to leave when I say "no thank you," I don't mind. I might think they're silly, but it doesn't bother me. I draw the legal line at "Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior". I think that's fairly self explanatory.

I know this is a pretty sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I am interested.

Dark Waters

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 01:40:04 am »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
So I often find myself winding up on the unpopular side of arguments about appropriate displays of spirituality in public (I have rather wide personal boundaries), so I was hoping to maybe get a bit of clarification on everyone's opinions. I've made, to the best of my knowledge, a list of the most common forms of public displays of religion. I've put them in order from least offensive to most offensive, IMO, and I was hoping you could let me know what you think. Where do you draw the line for yourself? Where do you draw the line for others socially? Where do you draw the line for others legally? Would you reorder anything on the list? Would you add or alter anything? I'm honestly curious.

 

I have no problem up to street preachers. Them and the Door to Doors annoy me - more so when the Door to Doors wake me up (I work Graveyards and sleep during the day) - but no more so than telemarketers.

After that where they are being intentional rude and insulting - that is line crossed in my view.
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My Path shines by the Moon\'s fragile light, it frees my Mind and keeps my Heart pure.

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 02:39:20 am »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
So I often find myself winding up on the unpopular side of arguments about appropriate displays of spirituality in public (I have rather wide personal boundaries), so I was hoping to maybe get a bit of clarification on everyone's opinions. I've made, to the best of my knowledge, a list of the most common forms of public displays of religion. I've put them in order from least offensive to most offensive, IMO, and I was hoping you could let me know what you think. Where do you draw the line for yourself? Where do you draw the line for others socially? Where do you draw the line for others legally? Would you reorder anything on the list? Would you add or alter anything? I'm honestly curious.

Clothing: Wearing pentacles, crucifixes, turbans, etc.

Small to elaborate personal prayer: Crossing oneself, reciting a prayer to oneself, other small, ritual actions, etc.

Small group prayer/celebration: Any kind of small prayer/religious group meeting in a public place, minding their own business, but loud enough that they can be heard.

Friend-to-Friend (possibly acquaintance) Discussion: A friend or close acquaintance broaches the topic of religion, possibly inviting you to a service or ritual. (Clearly the tact of this one depends on how well acquainted you are.)

Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing: Blessed Be, God bless you, Dia Duit, Merry Christmas, etc.

Larger personal prayer: Bowing to Mecca, shouting "Hallelujah" for personal celebration, (I don't know how common this is, but I did see what I believe was a Buddhist chanting in a moderately loud voice on the street once), etc.

Polite Strangers Who Back off When Turned Down: Handing out pamphlets for churches or school, pagan groups, maybe a quick "Would you like to hear about Jesus," etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

Street Preachers (Being annoying, but not hateful): Name says it all.

Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested): Name says it all.

Strangers, Street Preachers, and Door to Door Evangelists (Being aggressive and rude, but not necessarily hate speech): Name says it all.

Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior: Name says it all.

People Using Secular Positions of Authority to Preach or Discriminate: Teachers, bosses, politicians, etc.

Personally, I draw my own personal line at "Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing." That's just how I express myself sometimes. For others, I draw the social line at "Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested)". So long as I don't have to open the door when they knock, or they're willing to leave when I say "no thank you," I don't mind. I might think they're silly, but it doesn't bother me. I draw the legal line at "Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior". I think that's fairly self explanatory.

I know this is a pretty sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I am interested.

 
I have absolutely no problem with public displays of spirituality as long as it's not violent/disturbing (beheading chickens or whatever), forcing their beliefs on those around them ("have you found jesus yet?"), or otherwise pulling anyone else into the fray if they refuse to take part.

I won't bite the heads of people who come door to door talking about god and their church, but I won't be shy about telling them that I just got off a 14 hour shift and have to go back in 8 hours so I'd just rather not. Besides, whenever I've said "sorry, I'm pagan" they all put on a blank face and say "what's that?" No point. Easier just to say I need my beauty sleep (because I'm getting wrinkles at 25 years old!!!!).

But hey, if they don't mind my regular meditative/trance work out in the parks, I don't mind whatever it is they're doing. :)

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 09:57:53 am »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
Polite Strangers Who Back off When Turned Down: Handing out pamphlets for churches or school, pagan groups, maybe a quick "Would you like to hear about Jesus," etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

 
A parade is not harassing me personally and demanding an individual response, and thus is less invasive to me than a person who is harassing me personally and demanding an individual response.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

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Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 11:12:08 am »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
So I often find myself winding up on the unpopular side of arguments about appropriate displays of spirituality in public (I have rather wide personal boundaries), so I was hoping to maybe get a bit of clarification on everyone's opinions. I've made, to the best of my knowledge, a list of the most common forms of public displays of religion. I've put them in order from least offensive to most offensive, IMO, and I was hoping you could let me know what you think. Where do you draw the line for yourself? Where do you draw the line for others socially? Where do you draw the line for others legally? Would you reorder anything on the list? Would you add or alter anything? I'm honestly curious.

Clothing: Wearing pentacles, crucifixes, turbans, etc.

Small to elaborate personal prayer: Crossing oneself, reciting a prayer to oneself, other small, ritual actions, etc.

Small group prayer/celebration: Any kind of small prayer/religious group meeting in a public place, minding their own business, but loud enough that they can be heard.

Friend-to-Friend (possibly acquaintance) Discussion: A friend or close acquaintance broaches the topic of religion, possibly inviting you to a service or ritual. (Clearly the tact of this one depends on how well acquainted you are.)

Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing: Blessed Be, God bless you, Dia Duit, Merry Christmas, etc.

Larger personal prayer: Bowing to Mecca, shouting "Hallelujah" for personal celebration, (I don't know how common this is, but I did see what I believe was a Buddhist chanting in a moderately loud voice on the street once), etc.

Polite Strangers Who Back off When Turned Down: Handing out pamphlets for churches or school, pagan groups, maybe a quick "Would you like to hear about Jesus," etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

Street Preachers (Being annoying, but not hateful): Name says it all.

Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested): Name says it all.

Strangers, Street Preachers, and Door to Door Evangelists (Being aggressive and rude, but not necessarily hate speech): Name says it all.

Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior: Name says it all.

People Using Secular Positions of Authority to Preach or Discriminate: Teachers, bosses, politicians, etc.

Personally, I draw my own personal line at "Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing." That's just how I express myself sometimes. For others, I draw the social line at "Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested)". So long as I don't have to open the door when they knock, or they're willing to leave when I say "no thank you," I don't mind. I might think they're silly, but it doesn't bother me. I draw the legal line at "Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior". I think that's fairly self explanatory.

I know this is a pretty sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I am interested.

I'm good up until people become rude/hateful/etc.

I actually find it fun (and educational) to discuss various beliefs with people of other faiths (again, as long as they're not being hateful) and while I don't live in a community that has large religious festivities/parades/etc, I'm quite sure I'd enjoy seeing that.

Wear your symbolic jewelry or clothing, celebrate, pray, sing, do your thing. :)

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 11:25:03 am »
I'm okay, up to the person handing out pamphlets and proselytizing. Kind or not, it's still proselytizing and unsolicited.
"Trebech faelte, a Brig, i mu bethu. Do beannacht form, mo láes dair. Indossa ocus co dé mbrátha."

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 11:49:17 am »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
So I often find myself winding up on the unpopular side of arguments about appropriate displays of spirituality in public (I have rather wide personal boundaries), so I was hoping to maybe get a bit of clarification on everyone's opinions. I've made, to the best of my knowledge, a list of the most common forms of public displays of religion. I've put them in order from least offensive to most offensive, IMO, and I was hoping you could let me know what you think. Where do you draw the line for yourself? Where do you draw the line for others socially? Where do you draw the line for others legally? Would you reorder anything on the list? Would you add or alter anything? I'm honestly curious.

Clothing: Wearing pentacles, crucifixes, turbans, etc.

Small to elaborate personal prayer: Crossing oneself, reciting a prayer to oneself, other small, ritual actions, etc.

Small group prayer/celebration: Any kind of small prayer/religious group meeting in a public place, minding their own business, but loud enough that they can be heard.

Friend-to-Friend (possibly acquaintance) Discussion: A friend or close acquaintance broaches the topic of religion, possibly inviting you to a service or ritual. (Clearly the tact of this one depends on how well acquainted you are.)

Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing: Blessed Be, God bless you, Dia Duit, Merry Christmas, etc.

Larger personal prayer: Bowing to Mecca, shouting "Hallelujah" for personal celebration, (I don't know how common this is, but I did see what I believe was a Buddhist chanting in a moderately loud voice on the street once), etc.

Polite Strangers Who Back off When Turned Down: Handing out pamphlets for churches or school, pagan groups, maybe a quick "Would you like to hear about Jesus," etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

Street Preachers (Being annoying, but not hateful): Name says it all.

Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested): Name says it all.

Strangers, Street Preachers, and Door to Door Evangelists (Being aggressive and rude, but not necessarily hate speech): Name says it all.

Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior: Name says it all.

People Using Secular Positions of Authority to Preach or Discriminate: Teachers, bosses, politicians, etc.

Personally, I draw my own personal line at "Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing." That's just how I express myself sometimes. For others, I draw the social line at "Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested)". So long as I don't have to open the door when they knock, or they're willing to leave when I say "no thank you," I don't mind. I might think they're silly, but it doesn't bother me. I draw the legal line at "Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior". I think that's fairly self explanatory.

I know this is a pretty sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I am interested.

 
I don't mind as long as what others do doesn't bother myself or others by causing an obstruction. As long as people are polite and courteous I don't mind. I think it's nice that a person can expressed their beliefs through clothing choice but as long as they respect the choice of others to do or not do likewise. :)
Also, as a interesting note, the greeting 'Dia Duit' while literally meaning 'God be with you' is actually how you say a normal 'hello' in modern Irish. I presume there is perhaps another way but it's the way I was taught in school and I have never read of or heard of another way. It wouldn't be considered offensive really because it simply IS the phrase we use for 'hello' :) It's interesting :)
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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 11:55:17 am »
Quote from: Gaudior;98297
I'm okay, up to the person handing out pamphlets and proselytizing. Kind or not, it's still proselytizing and unsolicited.

 
I'm pretty much okay with anything as long as it doesn't personally affect me, but I personally feel awkward if someone asks me to pray with them (even among family) or discussing religion with strangers (or friends who haven't brought it up first). I wear jewellery that isn't obviously religious just so I can avoid talking about the significance of it. Part of that is a "broom closet" thing, but I just find it kind of awkward in general.

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 12:32:52 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

 
I'm okay up to here so long as the group isn't being destructive or overly disruptive to other people's daily lives. It's one thing to make people take an alternate route to work, it's another thing to spill into the streets and cause mayhem.

My community is super religious, so large gatherings are the norm here. Most gatherings are filled with well-behaved people, but on occasion we get troublemakers.
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 02:16:03 pm »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;98302
I'm pretty much okay with anything as long as it doesn't personally affect me, but I personally feel awkward if someone asks me to pray with them (even among family) or discussing religion with strangers (or friends who haven't brought it up first). I wear jewellery that isn't obviously religious just so I can avoid talking about the significance of it. Part of that is a "broom closet" thing, but I just find it kind of awkward in general.

 
If they are really close to me, like really good friends, I'll pray with them. But that has more to do with them than their God. I won't pray with a random stranger xD
"Trebech faelte, a Brig, i mu bethu. Do beannacht form, mo láes dair. Indossa ocus co dé mbrátha."

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 11:58:21 pm »
Quote from: Gaudior;98297


 
A Reminder:
Hi, Gaudior,

Just a quick note:  Please remember to quote (as you did in your later response, to Lokabrenna), even if you're just replying to the first message in the thread.  It makes the discussion  easier to follow, and it's required by  our  rules.

This isn't a formal warning, just a reminder.  No  reply is necessary, but if you have questions or need clarification,  please feel free to contact a member of staff privately.

Thanks!
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CalamityJane

Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 05:01:18 am »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
So I often find myself winding up on the unpopular side of arguments about appropriate displays of spirituality in public (I have rather wide personal boundaries), so I was hoping to maybe get a bit of clarification on everyone's opinions. I've made, to the best of my knowledge, a list of the most common forms of public displays of religion. I've put them in order from least offensive to most offensive, IMO, and I was hoping you could let me know what you think. Where do you draw the line for yourself? Where do you draw the line for others socially? Where do you draw the line for others legally? Would you reorder anything on the list? Would you add or alter anything? I'm honestly curious.

Clothing: Wearing pentacles, crucifixes, turbans, etc.

Small to elaborate personal prayer: Crossing oneself, reciting a prayer to oneself, other small, ritual actions, etc.

Small group prayer/celebration: Any kind of small prayer/religious group meeting in a public place, minding their own business, but loud enough that they can be heard.

Friend-to-Friend (possibly acquaintance) Discussion: A friend or close acquaintance broaches the topic of religion, possibly inviting you to a service or ritual. (Clearly the tact of this one depends on how well acquainted you are.)

Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing: Blessed Be, God bless you, Dia Duit, Merry Christmas, etc.

Larger personal prayer: Bowing to Mecca, shouting "Hallelujah" for personal celebration, (I don't know how common this is, but I did see what I believe was a Buddhist chanting in a moderately loud voice on the street once), etc.

Polite Strangers Who Back off When Turned Down: Handing out pamphlets for churches or school, pagan groups, maybe a quick "Would you like to hear about Jesus," etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

Street Preachers (Being annoying, but not hateful): Name says it all.

Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested): Name says it all.

Strangers, Street Preachers, and Door to Door Evangelists (Being aggressive and rude, but not necessarily hate speech): Name says it all.

Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior: Name says it all.

People Using Secular Positions of Authority to Preach or Discriminate: Teachers, bosses, politicians, etc.

Personally, I draw my own personal line at "Casual Religious Greeting/Blessing." That's just how I express myself sometimes. For others, I draw the social line at "Door to Door Evangelists (Being polite and leaving when requested)". So long as I don't have to open the door when they knock, or they're willing to leave when I say "no thank you," I don't mind. I might think they're silly, but it doesn't bother me. I draw the legal line at "Public Hate Speech/Forceful Behavior". I think that's fairly self explanatory.

I know this is a pretty sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I am interested.

 
I don't mind public displays of spirituality as long as it doesn't disrupt other people (and my) life. If it's polite I probably won't mind much as I won't give it much thought. Just don't be overly insistent, violent, abusive or rude.
Other than that just do your thing. Wear jewelry, pray in public, whatever.

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 06:22:04 pm »
Quote from: MattyG;98229
Larger personal prayer: Bowing to Mecca, shouting "Hallelujah" for personal celebration, (I don't know how common this is, but I did see what I believe was a Buddhist chanting in a moderately loud voice on the street once), etc.

Large group prayer/celebration: Ranging from groups of Krishnas to religious parades (Mardi Gras, Xmas Parade, etc.) to gatherings in public areas.

 
I'd place both of these closer to the "inoffensive" side. I have no problem with people practicing their religion in public, as long as they don't try to make me participate against my will. People bowing to Mecca or reciting the Rosary or whatever in front of me is both less annoying and less offensive than someone trying to hand me a religious pamphlet or telling me Jesus loves me (though I don't personally get upset or offended by either of those things, I can understand why people would and think they have a right to; I don't think people have a right to get offended by personal religious observance, even if it's in a public space, unless some other social taboo like nudity or animal sacrifice or swearing at children or something is happening).

Basically, the line for me is that if someone's religious practice steps on my personal liberties, there's a problem. If it doesn't affect other people's constitutional and civil rights, then I don't care what you believe or how you observe it.

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Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 06:48:00 pm »
Quote from: River at Night;98607


Basically, the line for me is that if someone's religious practice steps on my personal liberties, there's a problem. If it doesn't affect other people's constitutional and civil rights, then I don't care what you believe or how you observe it.


Yes.

Stay out of my personal space and do not limit my freedom in any way, and the same for the rest of the world who doesn't agree with you, and I don't care what you believe or practice.
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

MattyG

Re: Public Displays of Spirituality
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 11:14:46 pm »
Quote from: Gaudior;98297
I'm okay, up to the person handing out pamphlets and proselytizing. Kind or not, it's still proselytizing and unsolicited.

Fair enough, but I have a question. If someone on the street hands you a petition for something, a handout informing you about local concerts, or a pamphlet informing you about local/political issues (like gay marriage or drug laws possibly), would you be equally offended? Is it the soliciting that bothers you, or the fact that the content is religious in nature? One could say that those other things can have a similar moral/personal element to them. From the other person's point of view in all these cases, they are just trying to spread education.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 11:15:28 pm by MattyG »

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