collapse
2020 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $710 to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 30 November 2020: $636 donated. Only $74 more needed! Thank you, donors!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* Recent Posts

Re: Crazy thought by Anon100
[Yesterday at 07:01:24 pm]


Re: Crazy thought by Anon100
[Yesterday at 06:05:32 pm]


Re: Tigereye by PerditaPickle
[Yesterday at 07:56:54 am]


Re: Tigereye by sevensons
[Yesterday at 06:16:03 am]


Re: Recently Blogged by PerditaPickle
[November 28, 2020, 06:21:02 pm]

Author Topic: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?  (Read 347 times)

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 761
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 192
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« on: October 21, 2020, 03:53:55 am »
I've had a certain friend a long time associated with the Catholic Church whom I've confided in spiritually.

However, he has come to pressure me repeatedly to return to the Church, and I freely admitted to him that I am unconvinced of the Nicene Creed and it holds little meaning to me to say it these days.

Since I have drifted from the Church, I tend to worship Jesus and Mary as members of the human Dead who were deified, according to my standards of who and what is a god or worthy of worship.

My "friend" became aggressive and shouted at me that I will be a New Age idiot all on my own with no one, and no center or grounding.

What in the actual...?

He glared and hung up on me.

One of my "angels" -- or little gods, as I sometimes think of them -- has been warning me that she dislikes him, and I didn't listen to my gut.

I feel like he is fear mongering me, and although there are possible pitfalls in an eclectic religious practice, I am no idiot and I am careful to avoid religious extremes. My religious practice is largely rooted in relationships, with a certain degree of skepticism.

I believe I need to end this relationship.  Have you dealt with hostility from a trusted person because of your religion?  What did you do to protect yourself?

Any thoughts on how to handle religious intolerance or hostility from people who were friends or family?
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Allaya

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Location: Out of My Mind
  • Posts: 914
  • Country: no
  • Total likes: 59
    • View Profile
  • Religion: It's Complicated
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2020, 11:55:04 am »
I've had a certain friend a long time associated with the Catholic Church whom I've confided in spiritually.

However, he has come to pressure me repeatedly to return to the Church, and I freely admitted to him that I am unconvinced of the Nicene Creed and it holds little meaning to me to say it these days.

Since I have drifted from the Church, I tend to worship Jesus and Mary as members of the human Dead who were deified, according to my standards of who and what is a god or worthy of worship.

My "friend" became aggressive and shouted at me that I will be a New Age idiot all on my own with no one, and no center or grounding.

What in the actual...?

He glared and hung up on me.

One of my "angels" -- or little gods, as I sometimes think of them -- has been warning me that she dislikes him, and I didn't listen to my gut.

I feel like he is fear mongering me, and although there are possible pitfalls in an eclectic religious practice, I am no idiot and I am careful to avoid religious extremes. My religious practice is largely rooted in relationships, with a certain degree of skepticism.

I believe I need to end this relationship.  Have you dealt with hostility from a trusted person because of your religion?  What did you do to protect yourself?

Any thoughts on how to handle religious intolerance or hostility from people who were friends or family?


1. Your "friend" sounds like a controlling, abusive jackass.

2. In my case, I ended the friendship immediately.

3. My advice would be to tell your "friend" to fuck right off, then keep fucking off until the heat-death of the universe.
Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth.  — Shirley Chisholm
No doubt the truth can be unpleasant, but I am not sure that unpleasantness is the same as the truth.  — Roger Ebert
It is difficult to get a person to understand something when their livelihood depends upon them not understanding it. — Upton Sinclair (adapted)
People cannot be reasoned out of an opinion that they have not reasoned themselves into. — Fisher Ames (adapted)

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 761
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 192
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2020, 12:53:35 pm »
3. My advice would be to tell your "friend" to fuck right off, then keep fucking off until the heat-death of the universe.

You have no idea how helpful you have been!  Thank you so much, sincerely!
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Allaya

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Location: Out of My Mind
  • Posts: 914
  • Country: no
  • Total likes: 59
    • View Profile
  • Religion: It's Complicated
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her/hers
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 02:18:17 pm »
You have no idea how helpful you have been!  Thank you so much, sincerely!

I am very glad to have been of help to you!  :D
Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth.  — Shirley Chisholm
No doubt the truth can be unpleasant, but I am not sure that unpleasantness is the same as the truth.  — Roger Ebert
It is difficult to get a person to understand something when their livelihood depends upon them not understanding it. — Upton Sinclair (adapted)
People cannot be reasoned out of an opinion that they have not reasoned themselves into. — Fisher Ames (adapted)

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3369
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 861
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2020, 02:57:23 pm »
Any thoughts on how to handle religious intolerance or hostility from people who were friends or family?

I'm very much with Allaya on this one, though, um, as is typical for me, about to be wordy. You do not need someone who treats you like this in your life. It is entirely fine to look at this interaction, and go "Right, done here." and take whatever steps you feel you need to make that clear, and get on with having a good life elsewhere.

There's a couple of things that leap out at me here, besides the "Wow, that's abusive."

The first is that it is in fact possible to have very different opinions about something in someone's life, and still care about them, and talk about those concerns, but to do it in a way that's a conversation, not one person shouting. Shouting is not a caring behaviour. Hanging up on someone is unilaterally ending a conversation. He wants to monologue at you, and lecture, not listen to what you're thinking or feeling or caring about.

It is entirely sensible to go "Whether or not he might have a point about some things, that is not okay behaviour, and I am not going to set myself up for more of it."

In parallel situations in the past, sometimes I've just said "Look, this isn't working, let's go our own ways." Sometimes I've just cut someone off.

In a couple of cases, I just didn't reach out to talk with that person, they didn't reach out to me, it's still lingering out there, but meh. (None of those involved shouting or anger or aggression, but did involve someone saying something blatantly hurtful and ignoring my lived experience and my ability to make choices based on that that were different from theirs.)

In a couple of cases, I've had friendships get seriously tangled for some reason, and we sat down and figured it out and did something different going forward, but the key in that case was that it hadn't gotten to the point of anger, lashing out, or deliberate nastiness - we had things we were frustrated about, but we could sit down and talk about them like adults with different experiences. That is not what you have here.

The other thing that strikes me here is that ... what are his stated values in religious life? I am betting he is not living them in this situation, whatever they are (both because they involve nasty and abusive language and actions, and because ... um, how does he think treating you like that is going to change your mind? On a purely pragmatic level, it's not a good choice.) 

The third thing is - and you touch on this, as did he - the way that isolation in our religious lives can complicate some things. However, chances are good that you can find people to have meaningful religious conversations with (including "Hey, do you think this particular thing is a good idea? Why?") in a bunch of places. (Here, among them.)

But it might be really good to think about which places are giving you meaningful feedback that does raise questions when they're relevant, but are also supportive and helpful about it. (And kind! Kindness is good. I have been watching a lot of Great British Baking Show recently, and I am fascinated by the way the feedback goes, because it is often both kind and also super clear about what didn't work or what could be a lot better.)
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

EclecticWheel

  • Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2013
  • Location: Texas
  • Posts: 761
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 192
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Christo-Eclectic
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2020, 03:54:13 pm »
But it might be really good to think about which places are giving you meaningful feedback that does raise questions when they're relevant, but are also supportive and helpful about it. (And kind! Kindness is good. I have been watching a lot of Great British Baking Show recently, and I am fascinated by the way the feedback goes, because it is often both kind and also super clear about what didn't work or what could be a lot better.)

At one time on particular topics I valued some of his feedback.  Since he has disclosed to me his wish that religious minorities are forced into ghettos and made to attend Catholic churches by law, I value his feedback much, much less on any topic.  I noticed he used concepts of objective morality to justify his behavior and views.  ("Error has no rights," is another thing he is fond of.)

I normally get along with people across the religious and political spectrum, but I suppose even I have my limits.  Frankly, his worldview, now that I know that, is abhorrent to me.

Sometimes I can get along even with people whose views I abhor, at least if we have some other common interest.  But not if they shout at me.

As for "error has no rights," I'm sure the ones saying that don't intend for me to be the one to discern what is an error.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Sefiru

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Location: In the walls
  • Posts: 2128
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2020, 06:38:02 pm »
My "friend" became aggressive and shouted at me that I will be a New Age idiot all on my own with no one, and no center or grounding.

He sounds like the religious version of a Nice Guy. Like his actual reason for talking to you was always to convert you, and he got pissed off when you didn't follow his script.

Jenett

  • Senior Staff
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Boston, MA
  • Posts: 3369
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 861
    • View Profile
    • Seeking: First steps on a path
  • Religion: Initiatory religious witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: she/her
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2020, 07:07:38 pm »
I normally get along with people across the religious and political spectrum, but I suppose even I have my limits.  Frankly, his worldview, now that I know that, is abhorrent to me.

Sometimes I can get along even with people whose views I abhor, at least if we have some other common interest.  But not if they shout at me.

There's a big difference between getting along with people and letting them take up space in your brain or influence your decisions directly by asking advice.

(I mean, I mostly don't have time or patience for people who have views I abhor in general. But there are situations where either I suspect but don't know for sure, or need to be pleasantly civil for some reason. But those people do not generally get my private time or a chance to shout at me for making my own choices.)

In other words, boundary here sounds totally healthy and good and sensible.
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

anubisa

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2016
  • Location: Morgantown, WV
  • Posts: 93
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 9
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Egyptian Wicca
Re: Hostility toward your religion from a friend?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2020, 02:50:44 pm »
I've had a certain friend a long time associated with the Catholic Church whom I've confided in spiritually.

However, he has come to pressure me repeatedly to return to the Church, and I freely admitted to him that I am unconvinced of the Nicene Creed and it holds little meaning to me to say it these days.

Since I have drifted from the Church, I tend to worship Jesus and Mary as members of the human Dead who were deified, according to my standards of who and what is a god or worthy of worship.

My "friend" became aggressive and shouted at me that I will be a New Age idiot all on my own with no one, and no center or grounding.

What in the actual...?

He glared and hung up on me.

One of my "angels" -- or little gods, as I sometimes think of them -- has been warning me that she dislikes him, and I didn't listen to my gut.

I feel like he is fear mongering me, and although there are possible pitfalls in an eclectic religious practice, I am no idiot and I am careful to avoid religious extremes. My religious practice is largely rooted in relationships, with a certain degree of skepticism.

I believe I need to end this relationship.  Have you dealt with hostility from a trusted person because of your religion?  What did you do to protect yourself?

Any thoughts on how to handle religious intolerance or hostility from people who were friends or family?

My brother-in-law and sister are both Catholics. I was raised Catholic, but eventually I couldn't follow it anymore because I felt drawn to Wicca and I felt that the religion just is harsh. One time my b-i-l asked me about my dark god and I got really upset. Everyone, except my nephew, knows that I practice a different religion. I have to deal with my b-i-l so I just let it slide from now on. I don't give two shits what he says to me and just tell him that my dark god is doing fine if he ever asks. You can't let people force their views on you and you definitely can't let them put you down. Sounds like you need to kick this jackass to the curb.
Anubisa

Daughter of Lord Anubis and Lady Bast.

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
9 Replies
2343 Views
Last post November 26, 2011, 04:15:16 am
by SunflowerP
2 Replies
2628 Views
Last post March 17, 2014, 09:13:49 pm
by veggiewolf
218 Replies
16366 Views
Last post April 22, 2017, 04:35:21 pm
by Abigail
17 Replies
4477 Views
Last post August 19, 2017, 07:00:34 pm
by MadZealot
2 Replies
756 Views
Last post May 24, 2019, 05:26:35 pm
by PerditaPickle

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 37
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 0

There aren't any users online.

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal