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Author Topic: hate and ''pagan''  (Read 3180 times)

EclecticWheel

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 11:07:03 am »
In Greek Orthodox Christianity, pagan Gods are fake.
What about other christians you know?
Christianity and paganism are the same mostly than different. An example? The Orthodox Christianity and the Ancient Greek Religion both talk about one divine essense.
There is no stealing. Christianity, when the hate cools down, can be an excellent pagan religion.

I have come across the belief in Orthodoxy as well.  This is not a majority belief in Christianity by any means.  I'm just saying that it exists, and one should be careful of generalizations.  My point is that there are a variety of responses in Christianity to other religions -- some are much more tolerant than others.
My personal moral code:

Love wisely, and do what thou wilt.

Darkhawk

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2018, 11:15:04 am »
I've never heard of this before. Is it in the ancient scripture?

Why on earth would it be in scripture? Folk religion is intrinsically noncanonical.  It's just basic historical study.

Quote
What is paganism?

A modern sociocultural movement with religious manifestations with roots in the disenchantment shock of the aftermath of the industrial revolutions, the invention of nationalist sentiment in the mid-nineteenth-century, the horror experience of modern warfare, the invention of nature and pastoralism, the shocks of modern physics and the invention of archaeology, the developing interest in folklore studies, and the revival of Classicism among artists and poets, among a few other factors.  It is a response to the depersonalization of the modern era with an attempt to re-enchant and, often, to connect with an often-fictionalized past through reimaginings of ancient experience.

It shares roots with, and is related to, a number of non-religious sociocultural movements of the same period, including but not limited to: environmentalism, fantasy and science fiction literature, fascism, liberation movements, Westernised yoga, UFO crazes, alternative medicine, pacifist movements, the New Age movement, several varieties of alternate schooling, hippies, and the KKK.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Darkhawk

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2018, 11:16:08 am »
Modern pagan movement eh? Does it unite with ancient paganism?

Understandings of the various ancient paganisms - some archeological and historical, some mythologized - are among the component inspirations of the modern pagan movement.
as the water grinds the stone
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we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

Jenett

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2018, 11:17:05 am »
I've never heard of this before. Is it in the ancient scripture?

Take a look at a Latin dictionary - or here's a resource from an etymology dictionary.

Alternately (I think these URLs should work, but they are from standard Latin dictionaries, found through the search tools at the Perseus Project, a major project for classical and humanities texts and research. In this case, the dictionary tool.)

paganus and paganicus.

The latter has the 'heathenish, pagan' meaning, but notes this meaning is from ecclesiastical Latin which obviously involves there being ecclesiastical Latin in the first place (i.e. post rise of the Catholic Church, though I think this usage does date from before various later splits. However, I'm at work, catching up after vacation, and making an attempt to not go further down research rabbit holes than this.)
Seek Knowledge, Find Wisdom: Research help on esoteric and eclectic topics (consulting and other services)

Seeking: first steps on a Pagan path (advice for seekers and people new to Paganism)

arete

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2018, 11:31:30 am »
A modern sociocultural movement with religious manifestations with roots in the disenchantment shock of the aftermath of the industrial revolutions, the invention of nationalist sentiment in the mid-nineteenth-century, the horror experience of modern warfare, the invention of nature and pastoralism, the shocks of modern physics and the invention of archaeology, the developing interest in folklore studies, and the revival of Classicism among artists and poets, among a few other factors.  It is a response to the depersonalization of the modern era with an attempt to re-enchant and, often, to connect with an often-fictionalized past through reimaginings of ancient experience.

It shares roots with, and is related to, a number of non-religious sociocultural movements of the same period, including but not limited to: environmentalism, fantasy and science fiction literature, fascism, liberation movements, Westernised yoga, UFO crazes, alternative medicine, pacifist movements, the New Age movement, several varieties of alternate schooling, hippies, and the KKK.
Thanks! It is a very interesting term. I personally thought paganism as the opposite of Abrahamics. A Wiccan? Pagan. A Christian? Not Pagan. Polar opposites.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

arete

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2018, 11:33:16 am »
Take a look at a Latin dictionary - or here's a resource from an etymology dictionary.

Alternately (I think these URLs should work, but they are from standard Latin dictionaries, found through the search tools at the Perseus Project, a major project for classical and humanities texts and research. In this case, the dictionary tool.)

paganus and paganicus.

The latter has the 'heathenish, pagan' meaning, but notes this meaning is from ecclesiastical Latin which obviously involves there being ecclesiastical Latin in the first place (i.e. post rise of the Catholic Church, though I think this usage does date from before various later splits. However, I'm at work, catching up after vacation, and making an attempt to not go further down research rabbit holes than this.)
I know that pagan means villager. It is the christians that connected pagan with a religious meaning.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Jenett

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2018, 11:43:50 am »
I know that pagan means villager. It is the christians that connected pagan with a religious meaning.

And as those citations point out, it's not clear that the original meaning *was* religious, but rather 'those people who live not in the cities who still do that other stuff'. It eventually became heavily religious, but your assumptions about what that meant don't have a lot of data behind them.

(If you have sources that say otherwise, from reliable experts in the relevant fields, please do share!)
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arete

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2018, 11:51:51 am »
And as those citations point out, it's not clear that the original meaning *was* religious, but rather 'those people who live not in the cities who still do that other stuff'. It eventually became heavily religious, but your assumptions about what that meant don't have a lot of data behind them.

(If you have sources that say otherwise, from reliable experts in the relevant fields, please do share!)
pagan means villager. christians added on the meaning to mean ''worshiper of fake gods''.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Darkhawk

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2018, 12:01:11 pm »
Thanks! It is a very interesting term. I personally thought paganism as the opposite of Abrahamics. A Wiccan? Pagan. A Christian? Not Pagan. Polar opposites.

What is the opposite of a religion?

The concept is utterly nonsensical.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

arete

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2018, 12:07:56 pm »
What is the opposite of a religion?

The concept is utterly nonsensical.
Religious doctrines that negate other religious doctrines.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Darkhawk

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2018, 12:16:16 pm »
Religious doctrines that negate other religious doctrines.

So... you mean... disagreement?

There's disagreement on doctrine within religions, you know.
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

ehbowen

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2018, 12:23:52 pm »
I've never heard of this before. Is it in the ancient scripture?
What is paganism?

"Pagan", as Darkhawk correctly stated, is simply a Roman/Latin term for "villager" or "rural". It was used, even before Christianity in the days of the Roman Republic, as a perjorative in much the same way as we might today call someone a "bumpkin". Pagans, again as Darkhawk correctly noted, were looked down upon for not holding to all the ins and outs of "standard" Roman religion. After Constantine recognized Christianity and it began to take the place of the old religion as the official practice of the Empire, the rural areas were again among the last to convert. So "pagan" continued its former usage as a perjorative even under Christianity, with much the same connotations.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 12:26:24 pm by ehbowen »
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

arete

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2018, 12:43:51 pm »
So... you mean... disagreement?

There's disagreement on doctrine within religions, you know.
Yes, that's why denominations exist.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

Darkhawk

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2018, 12:49:10 pm »
Yes, that's why denominations exist.

So are denominations also "opposites"?  Even though, given that they are denominations of the same religion, they also agree on substantial amounts of practice, theology, and symbolism?
as the water grinds the stone
we rise and fall
as our ashes turn to dust
we shine like stars    - Covenant, "Bullet"

arete

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Re: hate and ''pagan''
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2018, 01:41:58 pm »
So are denominations also "opposites"?  Even though, given that they are denominations of the same religion, they also agree on substantial amounts of practice, theology, and symbolism?
Yes, they are opposites.
I pray that religious animosity will end.

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