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Author Topic: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts  (Read 903 times)

LapisLazuli

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Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« on: December 11, 2018, 06:59:38 am »
I'm just gonna leave this little gem here:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/you-neednt-believe-in-magic-to-worry-about-witchcraft/

I have to say my favourite line, possibly from any article ever, is the following:

'There’s Harry Potter of course, and also the sinister Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, complete with devil worship, cannibalism, human sacrifice and, inevitably, feminism.'
'Do not let one's tongue outrun one's sense'

LadyBug

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 08:20:11 am »
I'm just gonna leave this little gem here:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/you-neednt-believe-in-magic-to-worry-about-witchcraft/

I have to say my favourite line, possibly from any article ever, is the following:

'There’s Harry Potter of course, and also the sinister Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, complete with devil worship, cannibalism, human sacrifice and, inevitably, feminism.'

I mean, at least they recognize the inevitability of feminism?  ;D

This line struck me:

Quote
Magic, unlike traditional prayer, is not understood to be subject to the will of a good and all-powerful God to control what it is about. Instead, the spell is conceived as being entirely a projection of the will of the one casting it, and that will can be for good or for ill, to bless or to harm.

I want to meet whoever thought "Lets underline the difference between our God making us ask certain things at certain times so it can be perceived as He is helping us and a person deciding for themselves to ask Powers The May Be for something and being open to being told no."

Uneryx

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 09:32:22 am »
I'm just gonna leave this little gem here:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/you-neednt-believe-in-magic-to-worry-about-witchcraft/

*a very long-suffering lengthy sigh*

The utter lack of self-awareness is sad. Surely Christianity and conservative ideologies are perfect and not at all toxic or problematic in their own ways, right?

Articles and thought-stopper arguments like hers kept me from allowing myself to explore something I always yearned for and, even now, cause me to behave in ways I don't even fully understand until someone points out the assumptions and un-examined worldviews I still carry from 30 years of toxic Christianity.

I want people to be happy. And yet, it seems to me, that a lot of people like this article writer, are fixated on finding every culture war they can so they can spend their lives wringing their hands in fear and feeling superior and self-righteous.

EnderDragonFire

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 01:16:50 pm »
This line struck me:
Magic, unlike traditional prayer, is not understood to be subject to the will of a good and all-powerful God to control what it is about. Instead, the spell is conceived as being entirely a projection of the will of the one casting it, and that will can be for good or for ill, to bless or to harm.

It's even worse when you realize that they are over-generalizing. There are plenty of schools of theistic witchcraft that do involve beseeching Dieties. There's even Christian Witchcraft.

Yeah, lots of magic does come from within the caster, and there's nothing wrong with that (unlike these fanatics seem to think), but that's not a valid characterization of all concepts of magic from all cultures, nor even of all magic within the religious witchcraft movement.
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

Kylara

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 01:57:52 pm »
I'm just gonna leave this little gem here:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/you-neednt-believe-in-magic-to-worry-about-witchcraft/

I have to say my favourite line, possibly from any article ever, is the following:

'There’s Harry Potter of course, and also the sinister Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, complete with devil worship, cannibalism, human sacrifice and, inevitably, feminism.'

I really cringe every time I read articles like this (but I always read them, because I want to see what people are saying...) 

Quote
It doesn’t take any great insight to see that such a movement, dwelling on the dark, the morbid, the occult and the violent, cannot be healthy for young women or anyone to be drawn into. There is admittedly no research into the impact of involvement in witchcraft on a person’s mental health or life prospects, but it isn’t hard to see how a fixation on the dark and macabre side of things will breed negative attitudes and states of mind.

Ugh, just ugh.  I consider my path darker (not in the "I curse anyone who looks at me funny" way, but in the "I work well with darker aspects, and I am comfortable with them"), and exploring those parts of myself and the world makes me a better and happier person.  I don't function well when only working on 'light' things, or trying to hide all the darkness under the rug and pretend that the world is full of nothing but fluffy bunnies and rainbows.  And it really frustrates me when people who do take that attitude, who refuse to see the blatant HARM their rose-colored attitude does to people who don't fit into their version of perfect, flat out dismisses me and others like me.

Quote
It is very attractive to teenage girls in particular – a Christian-based spiritual helpline in California reported Wicca as the most common reason people contacted them, and almost all such callers were teenage girls.

I'm not sure that I think that whoever supplied this statement is trying to mislead...but I have a hard time accepting this as valid.  Perhaps, in a very small window of time, like RIGHT after a new show depicting witchcraft was popular, then maybe (be even then, wouldn't they call because of witchcraft and not Wicca...?)  Given the prevalence of pressure towards things like sex, drugs, drinking, and other mainstream teen pressures, I just don't see Wicca as being the forerunner.

Quote
Neither was there any outcry from among the supposedly all-white witches of modern Wicca protesting at the turning of their innocent art to malevolent ends.

This was in the bit talking about the call to curse Brett Kavanaugh, and again, I have no clue how they came to this conclusion.  By far and beyond the loudest and most common responses to this incident (the call to curse) that I saw was negative.  I saw SO many people, in many groups, get very upset about this and what it might mean for the community and how people perceive us.  Same goes for the groups that have called for taking magical action against Trump. 

Ultimately, what scares me most about articles like this is that they are fuel for the fire for the people who want to call for violence in order to 'stamp out the darkness'.  And the people who do this in the name of religion completely fail to see how they are hurting anyone, how they are doing exactly what they claim to be fighting against.  Because in their mind, they are doing God's work (whatever deity they connect with, this isn't a statement targeting Christians by any means), and they are taking care of the evil in the world...to protect people.  It's more than a little terrifying.
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Donal2018

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 03:26:20 pm »
I'm just gonna leave this little gem here:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/you-neednt-believe-in-magic-to-worry-about-witchcraft/

I have to say my favourite line, possibly from any article ever, is the following:

'There’s Harry Potter of course, and also the sinister Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, complete with devil worship, cannibalism, human sacrifice and, inevitably, feminism.'

There is obviously the assumption by the author of the article that ALL magic is a "dark art", whereas my personal view is that there is a diverse variety of practices and motivations in magic. I have used the term "dark arts" elsewhere to indicate magic that is specifically designed to harm another person or property. This is versus magic that does not intend to harm, such as healing magic, prosperity magic. Of course, magic for self-protection might be different from deliberately harmful magic.

I also speculated that there might be magical philosophies or worldviews that promote this kind of harmful magic, but this does not seem to really be a "thing" in most pagan communities. Sort of apples and oranges. There might be magical practitioners out there than mean harm, but this has nothing really to do with paganism.

Donal2018

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 03:30:03 pm »
I'm just gonna leave this little gem here:

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/you-neednt-believe-in-magic-to-worry-about-witchcraft/

I have to say my favourite line, possibly from any article ever, is the following:

'There’s Harry Potter of course, and also the sinister Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, complete with devil worship, cannibalism, human sacrifice and, inevitably, feminism.'

I would add that the author does not believe magic "is real" or "works", but is a destructive social force. So, whether magic "works" or not, it is a bad thing. according to the author.

Donal2018

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 04:04:08 pm »
I consider my path darker (not in the "I curse anyone who looks at me funny" way, but in the "I work well with darker aspects, and I am comfortable with them"), and exploring those parts of myself and the world makes me a better and happier person.  I don't function well when only working on 'light' things, or trying to hide all the darkness under the rug and pretend that the world is full of nothing but fluffy bunnies and rainbows.  And it really frustrates me when people who do take that attitude, who refuse to see the blatant HARM their rose-colored attitude does to people who don't fit into their version of perfect, flat out dismisses me and others like me.

I am in agreement with this. My own "path" is "darker". I think that there is a lot to be gathered from the negative, the "shadow self", in a Jungian sense, and a spiritual sense. I think what these conservatives do is see a "straw man" where everything different is demonized.

There should be a strong distinction between people who delve into "darker" spirituality versus the negative image projected by these conservatives. And it is literally a "projection" in Jungian terms. These people are unaware and disconnected from their own shadow aspects, so in their denial, they see "boogie men", "demons", in others.

They need to deal with their own negativity before they go projecting it on other people and other communities. They have their own "darkness" to process.

MamaThistle

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 04:37:56 pm »
I am in agreement with this. My own "path" is "darker". I think that there is a lot to be gathered from the negative, the "shadow self", in a Jungian sense, and a spiritual sense. I think what these conservatives do is see a "straw man" where everything different is demonized.

There should be a strong distinction between people who delve into "darker" spirituality versus the negative image projected by these conservatives. And it is literally a "projection" in Jungian terms. These people are unaware and disconnected from their own shadow aspects, so in their denial, they see "boogie men", "demons", in others.

They need to deal with their own negativity before they go projecting it on other people and other communities. They have their own "darkness" to process.

Kind of realated to this. I have an uncle who is a conservative Christian and he is for sure projects his one failings onto his siblings (my mother). He has done some pretty messed up things, became a Christian, and then instead of making himself a better person he  uses his religion it to manipulate others. BTW, he was raised Christian but I guess became a better Christian (??) and uses it to harass his family members. I find it very bizarre, but I’m more surprised where there are other people like him. :o

I will say though that equating witchcraft and paganism with Satan is clearly nothing new. I don’t find people that do it today very original, only lazy.  8)
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Donal2018

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 04:46:54 pm »
I will say though that equating witchcraft and paganism with Satan is clearly nothing new. I don’t find people that do it today very original, only lazy.  8)

Is this complicated by the fact that there might be some actual Satanists out there? Are any kinds of Satanists considered pagan, or are they a separate thing? I was sort of driving at this question on another thread, but maybe I was not being clear. I believe that most (all? many?) pagans do not admit any kind of idea of Satan. It is a Christian idea and they do not believe in it. Some Christians just project their own "idea" of the devil onto anyone with different views from theirs.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 04:48:26 pm by Donal2018 »

Donal2018

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 04:52:05 pm »
Is this complicated by the fact that there might be some actual Satanists out there? Are any kinds of Satanists considered pagan, or are they a separate thing? I was sort of driving at this question on another thread, but maybe I was not being clear. I believe that most (all? many?) pagans do not admit any kind of idea of Satan. It is a Christian idea and they do not believe in it. Some Christians just project their own "idea" of the devil onto anyone with different views from theirs.

I do not mean to divert this thread from the original topic. I do believe that many Christians "project" their own ideas of "good", "evil", etc. on others, pagans in this case. Perhaps the topic deserves its own thread.

MamaThistle

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 05:23:13 pm »
Is this complicated by the fact that there might be some actual Satanists out there? Are any kinds of Satanists considered pagan, or are they a separate thing? I was sort of driving at this question on another thread, but maybe I was not being clear. I believe that most (all? many?) pagans do not admit any kind of idea of Satan. It is a Christian idea and they do not believe in it. Some Christians just project their own "idea" of the devil onto anyone with different views from theirs.

I think the historical evidence is that this idea surfaced out of fear. It is likely coming from the same place, only they are in fear of their own “darkness”.

As far as true Satanism goes, I admittedly know very little about it. I have never met a pagan that worshiped Satan, like you said, most don’t even acknowledge the idea. I was also raised by a Christian, my Grandmother, who didn’t believe in the devil and thought is was a manipulation tactic. She also raised that monster of an uncle I have lol.
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LapisLazuli

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 06:23:01 pm »
I would add that the author does not believe magic "is real" or "works", but is a destructive social force. So, whether magic "works" or not, it is a bad thing. according to the author.

To me that logic is on par with me say, writing an article denying the existence of sentient garden gnomes. Yet still warning people to wear steel toe capped shoes in bed so that the wily toe-eating bastards can't get at your precious foot-meat.

I mean, it's just baffling.
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LapisLazuli

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 06:26:27 pm »
I mean, at least they recognize the inevitability of feminism?  ;D

Frankly I'm rather in love with the idea that Feminism is spawned from cannibalistic devil worship. It also tickles me that feminism was listed last, as if were the Ultimate Evil.
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Donal2018

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Re: Conservative Women vs. the Dark Arts
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 06:45:31 pm »
To me that logic is on par with me say, writing an article denying the existence of sentient garden gnomes. Yet still warning people to wear steel toe capped shoes in bed so that the wily toe-eating bastards can't get at your precious foot-meat.

I mean, it's just baffling.

This made me laugh, in a good way. If magic is not "real", or does not "work", why are they getting so twisted up about it? Beware the gnomes...

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