Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?

[Catherine]

I was just wondering... how do you guys feel about all of this?

Well, I think relationships can be complicated. Relationships between humans certainly are, how much more so between a human and a god? I think for some, that kind of dedication is perfectly natural and right, maybe even required. Others, not so much.

I also think that different people can have vastly different relationships with the same deities. What is required of one devotee, may not be required of another for whatever reason.

Personally, I'm not in that kind of relationship with any deity. I never have been. It's just not who I am. I wouldn't make that kind of commitment  because I know I can't live up to it. Luckily, I haven't been asked to go that far. If I was, I'd have to say no. Why set myself up for failure, you know?

[yarnwitch]

(1) What is God-Slavery?  Why is "-Slave" used to define the relationship?
(2) Does being a God-Slave have anything to do with BDSM?  Is it primarily sexual in nature?
(3) What makes a God-Slave different from a Servant of a God?"

 
I have no experience in this life-path, but I hope its not too rude of me to interject my thoughts on the matter.

1)I think the word slave, despite its historical association, means that you've entered something similar to a contract with your Deity. That is... that consequences for breaking this contract might be more severe than if you were just a devoted follower who is taking a small break. Whatever the conditions of the contract are, they would be severe enough to warrant use of the word "slave".

2)I don't know much about this, but I think a parallel might be able to be drawn in that it's the job of the s to do everything in their power to please the M. Because a M is generally human and has limited power, the "slave" has much greater responsibility to the Deity. I cannot speak for any sexual aspect.

3)Wouldn't a servant of God, at least in the way I'm familiar with hearing it, be something people strive to be? Rather, a God-Slave is something you fall into rather than aspiring to be, as I imagine "Servant of God" being.

Please feel free to correct me at any point. I don't follow this life-path, as I said before, but I am curious about it and am trying to relate my thoughts to it. I know that I probably have it wrong, so I'm looking forward to a response.

[Darkhawk]

Uhhhh....How do I put this?

Your not batting in Galina Krasskova's league, not by a long shot

 
Subbier-than-thou claims are still tacky when delivered by proxy.

[Darkhawk]

Even when it's made clear that they are trying to overcome a cultural reaction to the word 'slave' in order to understand a relationship that does not involve abused indentured servitude in the historical sense?  Several people have expressed that it is not the relationship they are having this knee-jerk reaction to, but the history of slavery in the western world.

 
I am pretty sure the terminology comes out of the BDSM community if one chases it back far enough; personally, I'm a little burnt out on the subject because I just watched a chunk of the actual BDSM community throwing a near-identical "EW!" fit ... last week, I think it was.

I'll do something I saw someone do in that conversation, though:

slave:
1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3: a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another

(... now I want to be Neb.y's printer.  It's a hilariously accurate concept, so long as one goes at it through the dictionary definition of 'slave'.)

Concepts of slavery vary wildly over historical periods, too; it's my understanding that the American slave trade, while obviously culturally overwhelming, was aberrant on a number of levels.  (Indentured servitude, which was also common in parts of the colonies, is also a form of slavery, and one which has a lot more historical parallels.)

[Devo]

(... now I want to be Neb.y's printer.  It's a hilariously accurate concept, so long as one goes at it through the dictionary definition of 'slave'.)

 
Totally irrelevant, but this made me laugh out loud. In my office. Oops XD

-Devo

[Darkhawk]

Totally irrelevant, but this made me laugh out loud. In my office. Oops XD

 
I did SAY hilariously!

[Catherine]

there are people who really feel they need to earn their pats on the head and doggee biscuits from their patron,

This is kind of bugging me.

Are you saying that when I'm given a task by my Matron, I fulfill my obligations to Her, and am rewarded in some way for a job well done, that I'm Her pet?

Would you feel the same way if it were a promotion, or a pay raise in the workplace? Perhaps your gods don't ask anything of you. That's fine, but some of us have jobs to do. Why shouldn't we strive to do those jobs to best of our ability? Why shouldn't we feel good about it when we we've done well?

Would you make the same analogy if we were talking about human relationships? Let's say I spend the day cleaning out the garage. My husband sees how hard I've worked and brings me home some flowers to say thank you. Am I his dog, too?

Honestly, this statement comes off as really condescending and I'm trying to understand why you'd make such a comparison.

[Juniperberry]

Uhhhh....How do I put this?

Your not batting in Galina Krasskova's league, not by a long shot

The heathens collect stories about her and use them to scare their kids with

 
*chuckles*

Kids are the last people that need to hear any stories about Galina's activites.

Which is why I think heathens make that distinction between a tradition you can share with your family, and one such as Galina's that is relatively private and reserved for a more mature crowd. This, by default, sets it up as a recreational spiritual activity rather that a heathen tradition that encompasses the wider and diversified community. Which is what heathens have been saying about it all along. Don't you find that to be appropriate?

I suppose it could be because we're all big, bad, intolerant meanies that need acceptance from the mainstream, though.  :

[Darkhawk]

Which is why I think heathens make that distinction between a tradition you can share with your family, and one such as Galina's that is relatively private and reserved for a more mature crowd. This, by default, sets it up as a recreational spiritual activity rather that a heathen tradition that encompasses the wider and diversified community. Which is what heathens have been saying about it all along. Don't you find that to be appropriate?

 
Generally speaking, ordeal work is not considered "recreational" by anyone who actually has to deal with it.

[Darkhawk]

Generally speaking, ordeal work is not considered "recreational" by anyone who actually has to deal with it.

 
... nor for that matter is any other closed-tradition, mystery-oriented, calling-based, or otherwise elective religious practice.

[SkySamuelle]

I concur, wholeheartedly.  God-Slave is one of the terms I use to describe my religious path.  I can therefore only assume that people posting here that are going "Ew!" about GK, or god-slavery, are also doing that about MY life.

 
I apologize wholeheartedly if my comment made you uncomfortable or if it has insulted you. My 'ew'ness is not something I was directing to the concept of god-slavery in itself but rather to the idea of someone scarring herself repeteadly as a ritual choice.

I do understand that pain can be an useful ritual tool but the idea of bringinging it to the point of physical disfigurement strikes me as a bit unhealthy. That's only my POV, obviously and it can be flawed. Especially since all i know of GK is what I read on this thread.

I am a squeamish when it comes to physical pain, so i can't imagine my Lady would ask that from me... because I am not comfortable with it.

This doesn't mean I disrespect those who are on a different path . My reaction and feelings were uniquely directed to the idea of disfigurement... as it triggered thoughts of medieval Cristianity and monks whipping themselves bloody because they didn't feel whorty enough.

Of course, the same gesture has a  different value within pagan context, one that has little to do with shame and self-loathing.

[Nehet]

If you volunteer, then I find slave to be an incorrect word choice. Priestess, maybe, instead?

 
Well, technically not there yet.  

The word priestess is so loaded that I'm trying to stay away from it.

I guess "servant" is the best term I can use ATM.

[Nehet]

Uhhhh....How do I put this?

Your not batting in Galina Krasskova's league, not by a long shot

A).  Never said I was.  

B).  Not heathen, so not sure why you're using that yardstick to measure my path.

C).  Not sure why I should want to bat in that league.  My path is my path, and it works (shrugs).  That's all that really matters.  

My point in posting my experience was to say "you can belong to somebody without being forced, coerced or threatened."  That was it.

[Darkhawk]

I apologize wholeheartedly if my comment made you uncomfortable or if it has insulted you. My 'ew'ness is not something I was directing to the concept of god-slavery in itself but rather to the idea of someone scarring herself repeteadly as a ritual choice.

 
Ritual scarification has existed and exists in a wide variety of cultures across the world and across history.  It is obviously something that some people have found valuable since, as best as can be judged, prehistory; it seems reasonable to me to expect that such wide-spanning things will continue to persist.

The primary difference I see between a lot of Western attitudes to pain and that of other cultures is that we are often taught to be intensely pain-phobic: if it hurts, it is bad.  People who are willing to endure pain for a goal seen as legitimate and prestigious (say, marathon runners) are commonly referred to in terms that suggests that their capacity to handle pain is superhuman or their dedication superlative - but many members of, say, the Rarámuri tribe will regularly do hundred mile runs in a day or two.

When one is coming from 'if it hurts, it is bad', it is easy to frame practices that value pain endurance, pain transcendence, or pain used as a tool as 'bad'.  Religious experiences are not culturally framed as legitimate and prestigious (maybe a tiny narrow range are, but my experience is that mainstream religion is also treated as highly mockable if one takes it too seriously), and thus pain-utilising religious practices are marginalised and treated with contempt in various ways.


I would also note that this is actually tangential from the original conversation; while many people conflate godslavery and physical ordeal work, much like many people assume that d/s or m/s in BDSM include sadomasochistic activity, they are not the same.  One can do one or the other, both, or neither.

[Darkhawk]

Perpetuating the tangent, though:

The primary difference I see between a lot of Western attitudes to pain and that of other cultures is that we are often taught to be intensely pain-phobic: if it hurts, it is bad.

 
A number of years ago I had a number of conversations with a BDSM sadist who was also a disability activist around this.  She found it intensely frustrating, because she felt that the pain-phobia of surrounding culture not only marginalised and defined as negative some of her sexuality, but also her existence as someone who had to deal with chronic pain and health issues.  If "good" is "pain-free", then she was incapable of living in a good manner.

It's actually a kind of insidious thing, and I think it's worth questioning why, precisely, certain value judgements get put on pain.  It's easy to see why people who utilise pain as part of their practices are negatively viewed - they are choosing to do the Bad Thing.  But that's something I, at least, consider problematic, not least because while I don't have an interest in sadomasochism or do physical ordeal work, I do have mild chronic pain, and do have techniques that use pain as a magical tool, and thus am very wary around the pain-phobia of people who are closer to mainstream attitudes on that point.

I used to kind of disturb my ex by quoting the Princess Bride at him.  "Life is pain, highness.  Anyone who tells you different is selling something."  He found it depressing; I found it reassuring and at some level inspiring.