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Author Topic: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?  (Read 33119 times)

HeartShadow

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #255 on: April 09, 2013, 08:34:07 pm »
Quote from: Chaldi;104857
My problem is not religious service or people feeling a strong religious obligation but I won't call it god-SLAVERY. It does have some extreme aspects resembling slavery but it is still encompassed by the free choice of belief IN this system which cannot be forced. It does not contain ownership rights, slave trade etc.

 
Again, you are saying that YOUR definition (in what you say is not your primary language, no less) trumps the LIVES of the people that do take this label.

Why does your definition mean more than theirs?  No one's saying you have to LIKE the label, or TAKE the label.  Just have respect for the people that DO take it.  Or if you cannot do that, for whatever reason, say nothing.

Jumping up and down telling people what our own language REALLY MEANS just sounds .. rude.

Chaldi

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #256 on: April 09, 2013, 09:37:55 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;104863
Again, you are saying that YOUR definition (in what you say is not your primary language, no less) trumps the LIVES of the people that do take this label.

Why does your definition mean more than theirs?  No one's saying you have to LIKE the label, or TAKE the label.  Just have respect for the people that DO take it.  Or if you cannot do that, for whatever reason, say nothing.

Jumping up and down telling people what our own language REALLY MEANS just sounds .. rude.

 

Why do you use a specific label, add your own definition and then complain about those who use the old definition? There is a reason why words have a specific range of definition. Different views or a misunderstanding might be unfortunate but inevitable if you use a single word in different ways and I tend to stick to the legal definition of slavery because this new kind of usage neglects some of the cruel key points of the so-to-say "traditional" meaining of the word "slavery".
                                  I did not criticise their way of veneration, devotion or what-so-ever. I'm not interested in that but I criticise the use of words for the use of a label can be rude under various circumstances and in my opinion in this case misleading for I don't think that these people think of themselves as real slaves who can be bought, sold, forced to do something etc.

It is a word I'd avoid to use because of reasons I at least tried to explain above.

You dont' have to share my opinion but this is a FORUM and you should be able to accept that someone might have another opinion as I do accept yours. A forum makes totally no sense and is of no use if everyone is prohibited to take sides in favor of another opinion. This is a place of discourse to exchange ideas AND opinions - in a civilized frame, yes, but I think I did not violated any terms of etiquette. I'm just trying to clarify my statement. I do not demand you to share it. I clearly stated everything to by MY opinion and MY view.

Simply having another opinion isn't rude and as far as I see I did not insult anyone. If I did I'll be sorry for that but it wasn't intended.

And with all due respect english might not be my native tongue but I did not hear of any language that'd be the possession of its native speakers and the legal definition of the UNO seems very reliable to me to serve as a starting point for my thoughts . You are totally free to explain your own definition and I won't complain if it'll make more sense to me.

Rainbo

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #257 on: April 09, 2013, 11:30:31 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;104823
All paths have potential for problems or risk...and moreso without the consent of all involved parties.  The key for me, as a god-slave, is that I consented to the role and the risks that come with it.

I understand that you might be uncomfortable with the word 'slave' (there are a lot of people who are) but just note that some of us get twitchy when our chosen title/label/role is put in quotes.
I'm curious about two things with regard to your statements above...and yes, these are serious questions and not an attempt to tear apart what you've said.  

(1) Why did you emphasize 'healthy'?  Did you intend to communicate that god-slave relationships are not healthy, or was there something else you were trying to get across?


I apologize, I meant no offense at all. Like I said, I come from a pretty rough background with religion and spirituality (raised by extreme cultist parents, and accidentally stumbled into a couple of pretty bad New Age cults in the years since along my spiritual path), so I'm always a bit reserved with new spiritual stuff I encounter. I really don't know enough about the concept of god-slave either way, I just wasn't sure what it entailed so there was a brief moment of caution since there was such strong terminology used to describe it. Sometimes when I encounter someone (or a group of someones) who is extremely intense about their chosen spirituality right off the bat, there's potential for some unhealthy behavior. But that's not always the case - sometimes people believe something really strongly and they're cool about it, you know? Just a momentary hesitation on my part. My apologies, I had no intention of insinuating that god-slaves are unhealthy, I mean I can't possibly know or even guess at that from just a few paragraphs.



Quote from: veggiewolf;104823
(2) What, exactly, do you mean by 'Old Ways'?  I've not heard that descriptor in a long time and it doesn't mean what the last people I heard use it thought it meant.


I don't really know much about how others use the phrase - I'm sorry, I've always struggled to put things into words, and over time I've had to sort of grasp at straws and figure out silly terms of my own for things I guess. When I say "Old Ways" it's sort of just a random reference to ancient lore, pantheons, deities, and so on and so forth, extending all the way back to the stuff that archaeology leaves us with only the smallest shreds of understanding about. It's a fondly-spoken term for me. I'm terribly fascinated with it all and it sometimes bugs me that history and wisdom so valuable as that is lost or forgotten among the general populace. To think that there are thriving, avid believers in ancient Deities who would truly dedicate their lives to Them warms my heart to the core! It just makes me happy in a way that's hard to describe.
 
Quote from: veggiewolf;104823
Given the descriptions noted throughout this thread by god-slaves and those who consider themselves servants rather than slaves, how do you differentiate the two?  

Obviously, the path of a god-slave is not for everyone, nor should everyone expect to find themselves in such a relationship.  In your explanation, I can't tell if you've been asked to fill the role and have rejected it or if it hasn't come up for you at all but you plan to reject it if it does.

 
I apologize, I haven't read the entire thread. I had very little time to post this morning and sort of posted and then had to jet for a long day. I'll be sure to go back and read as soon as I can and catch up. I'm not sure yet what terms have been used thus far, I just sort of think of servants as a tiny bit less dedicated maybe? Seemed like a slightly lesser term is all.

Anyway, it hasn't come up for me really. I've been asked for one thing or another but never for complete dedication to any one God/dess. Personally I do not believe I would accept a request of this caliber. Technically I guess you could say I am already in service to one Deity who insists He is without name, although I'm not used to thinking about it in that way exactly (He insists, also, that I am not bound to Him unless I wish to be, and has urged me many times to never be enslaved to anyone, be it man, woman or God/dess). I guess in a sense I feel it would be a conflict of interest, but then again, one may say that I myself am perhaps a god-slave, so who knows? haha...I'll just have to do more research on the matter!

HeartShadow

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #258 on: April 10, 2013, 09:03:30 am »
Quote from: Chaldi;104866


 
You are still telling people that your definition is more important their own.  That they are WRONG.  That other people need to validate their lives to you.

Should I come over to Germany and demand that you validate why you call soccer Fussbal?  I mean, CLEARLY you're doing it WRONG!  Wouldn't you find that a bit rude?  Maybe arrogant and condescending?

If you want to understand, actually READ THE THREAD.  If you want to be holier-than-thou about other people's lives, that's your right - but it's still rude as hell, and I've no reason not to call you on it.

RandallS

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #259 on: April 10, 2013, 09:04:51 am »
Quote from: Chaldi;104838
Quote from: veggiewolf;104828
You have completely dedicated your entire life to this god/dess that has chosen you.

*** MOD HAT ON ***
Veggiewolf did not say that. The post you are quoting does not say that anywhere. Our rules require you to quote properly. This means replying to the post you wish to quote so that the autogenerated link back points to the post you are actually replying to. Do not do this again as it not only violates our quoting rules but puts words in the mouth of another member. This is unacceptable behavior.
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veggiewolf

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #260 on: April 10, 2013, 09:05:33 am »
Quote from: Chaldi;104838
Sorry, I really didn't read all the 24 pages this thread contains, it is a bit much but I have a problem concerning the pure meaning of "slave" and the complex of slavery as it is stated in the initial post.


If your issue is with the initial post, why didn't you quote that one?  You're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say by quoting me but inserting someone else's text.

Also, by not reading the entire thread, you've missed the lengthy discussions about why those of us who are god-slaves choose to use the word slave and the fact that other groups out there, including the very large BDSM community, also uses the word slave.  

Quote
Devotion as the single and most striking key element of slavery is quite unsatisfying for there is clearly more that defines this subject in contrast to others. And assuming slaves to be always devoted to their masters, owners etc. is quite ... uh ... let's say sarcastic. Surely, slavery and different forms of servitude - motivated by religion or not - might have some characteristics in common but you shouldn't melt it into one single thing.

Being a slave or slavery as a practice is clearly something with an emphasis on a condition maintained by force but not always made by it. You are forced into slavery simply by lasting physical force or an abstract force like law - because of a crime, debt etc - tradition etc. by someone or something that demands and dictates slavery in certain circumstances. Your choices are being restricted and chanelled as are your rights in a sometimes quite extreme manner.


Again, by not reading the entire thread you're missing a key point that's been made over and over again - god-slavery, like slavery in the BDSM community, is consensual.  Period.  End of story.

Quote
All in all I think it's the most important step to discuss the role of voluntariness and belief as a prerequisite in a specific case to decide if it's a form of slavery - physically or psychologically - or anything else. I'm really far too lazy to list all the possibilities to combine and incorporate slavery and concepts of religious service into another but at least I think they're quite different social phenomena.

 
And, once again, if you read before you comment you can learn amazing things...and actually participate in a discussion from an informed point of view.
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veggiewolf

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #261 on: April 10, 2013, 09:10:01 am »
Quote from: Chaldi;104850
Well , I read a good part of it but at some point I was wondering how much there was still left *gg* I maybe missed the important posts uh but well, my bad. ...

 
Seriously???  You take the time to belittle those of us who are god-slaves and then admit you might've missed all of the important information by not reading...and toss it off with a "my bad"???

I am incredibly offended by this.
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Morag

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #262 on: April 10, 2013, 09:31:27 am »
Quote from: Chaldi;104866
Why do you use a specific label, add your own definition and then complain about those who use the old definition? There is a reason why words have a specific range of definition. Different views or a misunderstanding might be unfortunate but inevitable if you use a single word in different ways and I tend to stick to the legal definition of slavery because this new kind of usage neglects some of the cruel key points of the so-to-say "traditional" meaining of the word "slavery".
                                  I did not criticise their way of veneration, devotion or what-so-ever. I'm not interested in that but I criticise the use of words for the use of a label can be rude under various circumstances and in my opinion in this case misleading for I don't think that these people think of themselves as real slaves who can be bought, sold, forced to do something etc.

It is a word I'd avoid to use because of reasons I at least tried to explain above.


See, this is where reading the thread comes in handy. Because if you'd read the thread, you would see why we godslaves use the term godslave.

Quote from: Chaldi;104866
You dont' have to share my opinion but this is a FORUM and you should be able to accept that someone might have another opinion as I do accept yours. A forum makes totally no sense and is of no use if everyone is prohibited to take sides in favor of another opinion. This is a place of discourse to exchange ideas AND opinions - in a civilized frame, yes, but I think I did not violated any terms of etiquette. I'm just trying to clarify my statement. I do not demand you to share it. I clearly stated everything to by MY opinion and MY view.


This is a debate and discussion forum. Opinions are not sacred nor above discussion or debate.

Quote from: Chaldi;104866
Simply having another opinion isn't rude and as far as I see I did not insult anyone.


You insulted me.

Quote from: Chaldi;104866
You are totally free to explain your own definition and I won't complain if it'll make more sense to me.

 
Oh, gee, thanks. So glad to know I'm free to educate you because you didn't read the thread that would have done just that. Really happy you're allowing me to spend my time telling you things you could have gleaned from the rest of the thread if you'd bothered to read it.
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veggiewolf

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Re: Are You a God-Slave? Will You Be?
« Reply #263 on: April 10, 2013, 09:41:29 am »
Quote from: Rainbo;104873
I apologize, I meant no offense at all. Like I said, I come from a pretty rough background with religion and spirituality (raised by extreme cultist parents, and accidentally stumbled into a couple of pretty bad New Age cults in the years since along my spiritual path), so I'm always a bit reserved with new spiritual stuff I encounter. I really don't know enough about the concept of god-slave either way, I just wasn't sure what it entailed so there was a brief moment of caution since there was such strong terminology used to describe it. Sometimes when I encounter someone (or a group of someones) who is extremely intense about their chosen spirituality right off the bat, there's potential for some unhealthy behavior. But that's not always the case - sometimes people believe something really strongly and they're cool about it, you know? Just a momentary hesitation on my part. My apologies, I had no intention of insinuating that god-slaves are unhealthy, I mean I can't possibly know or even guess at that from just a few paragraphs.


Not a problem, and I completely understand where you're coming from.  I always like to check, though - it's just how my brain works.

For the record, I wasn't offended by what you wrote but I was trying to head you in another direction. ;)


Quote
I don't really know much about how others use the phrase - I'm sorry, I've always struggled to put things into words, and over time I've had to sort of grasp at straws and figure out silly terms of my own for things I guess. When I say "Old Ways" it's sort of just a random reference to ancient lore, pantheons, deities, and so on and so forth, extending all the way back to the stuff that archaeology leaves us with only the smallest shreds of understanding about. It's a fondly-spoken term for me. I'm terribly fascinated with it all and it sometimes bugs me that history and wisdom so valuable as that is lost or forgotten among the general populace. To think that there are thriving, avid believers in ancient Deities who would truly dedicate their lives to Them warms my heart to the core! It just makes me happy in a way that's hard to describe.


Your happiness is making me smile all over the place this morning.  Thanks for that.

Some people use 'Old Ways' to legitimize practices and/or paths that aren't actually ancient and there are a number of books out there that back up the use of the phrase with lovely pseudo-history.  

I can't necessarily think of better terminology (I tend to avoid the phrase entirely, myself) but you can probably understand why I was asking.

 
Quote
I apologize, I haven't read the entire thread. I had very little time to post this morning and sort of posted and then had to jet for a long day. I'll be sure to go back and read as soon as I can and catch up. I'm not sure yet what terms have been used thus far, I just sort of think of servants as a tiny bit less dedicated maybe? Seemed like a slightly lesser term is all.

Anyway, it hasn't come up for me really. I've been asked for one thing or another but never for complete dedication to any one God/dess. Personally I do not believe I would accept a request of this caliber. Technically I guess you could say I am already in service to one Deity who insists He is without name, although I'm not used to thinking about it in that way exactly (He insists, also, that I am not bound to Him unless I wish to be, and has urged me many times to never be enslaved to anyone, be it man, woman or God/dess). I guess in a sense I feel it would be a conflict of interest, but then again, one may say that I myself am perhaps a god-slave, so who knows? haha...I'll just have to do more research on the matter!


Anything that involves more research and learning is a good thing, IMO.
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

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