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Author Topic: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism  (Read 4440 times)

MadZealot

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2016, 09:06:18 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;199640
That was my first thought, too. Then I saw the avatar and guessed it was old Doctor Who or something. Hah, did I miss some very important reference again? :P

 
If so, we've missed it together.  I've never seen any Prisoner or Dr Who.
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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2016, 11:54:53 pm »
Quote from: Faemon;199640
That was my first thought, too. Then I saw the avatar and guessed it was old Doctor Who or something. Hah, did I miss some very important reference again? :P

 
The avatar is (according to a reverse image search Jenett did) a picture of Robert Anton Wilson. The linked Wikipedia article doesn't have that particular photo, but it has a couple of others, which resemble the avatar pic well enough that I'd say Jenett's result is confirmed.

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Faemon

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2016, 01:55:19 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;199651
The avatar is (according to a reverse image search Jenett did) a picture of Robert Anton Wilson. The linked Wikipedia article doesn't have that particular photo, but it has a couple of others, which resemble the avatar pic well enough that I'd say Jenett's result is confirmed.

Thanks both of you for helping clear that up! :)
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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2016, 02:11:16 am »
Quote from: MadZealot;199633
I was thinking blonde-Cylon-in-a-red dress.

 
Quote from: Faemon;199640
That was my first thought, too. Then I saw the avatar and guessed it was old Doctor Who or something. Hah, did I miss some very important reference again? :P

 
This looks like a cue for a joke about Cylon Baker.

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2016, 02:15:49 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;199527
I am not, nor have I ever been, a Marxist.

 
Based on what I can extrapolate from Number 6's posts about what he means by 'Marxist', it seems I need to retract this, since I am Canadian.

Sunflower
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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2016, 03:00:33 am »
Quote from: Number 6;199620
I'll leave you to verify my claims on your own since I'm not into digging up material due to the 99% chance I'll just be labeled as a Right Wing Conspiracy Theorist and dismissed.

A Reminder:
Just as an informational note regarding interactions here on TC, I draw your attention to one of our 'Do' rules, which reads, 'DO expect to be asked for sources to support any unusual factual claims you may make. If you chose to back those claims with poor sources (wikipedia and other encyclopedias, dictionaries, popular press books written by non-experts, out-of-date academic books, etc.), do not be surprised when they are not considered convincing, let alone authoritative.'

In other words, while you are certainly free to decline to provide sources for your claims, or to provide poor-quality ones, without violating any rules, it is very likely that other people will be less inclined to take your claims seriously.

Indeed, since you state that providing sources will result in a 99% chance you'll be categorized as a conspiracy theorist, I am moving this thread to the subforum 'Conspiracy Theories' - either you suppose that you already sound like one, and the sources you would provide would only marginally change that, from 100% to 99%; or you suppose that the chances of you being labelled a conspiracy theorist are much lower if you don't provide sources, which in turn implies that your sources themselves are sources we'd reject as 'conspiracy theory'. Either way, you yourself have positioned it as being out of the realm of 'Political Discussions'.

ETA: This has the advantage for you of allowing you more latitude in your sources, arguments, and definitions than you would have had in the previous location.

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 03:05:40 am by SunflowerP »
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Yei

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2016, 04:57:40 am »
Quote from: Number 6;199620
Note:
I have to take a few steps back here and take cross-Atlantic cultural differences into account. For a variety of reasons Europe is more open to Marxist and Socialist thought, with exception to ex-Soviet states. You guys in the United States don't share the West European fascination with Socialism, but I'm not entirely wrong, as the first popular interest in pre-Christian identity before this current one came from the hippie culture. They were most definitely Marxist.


Hippie =/= communist. Unless you are going with the CIA definition of the word.

Quote
We'll get to my interpretation of "polytheistic systems" later, but are you referring to my observation that Communism murdered in excess of 100,000,000 people? I'm not about to go using Google on your behalf or write a whole thesis, because we're talking about several countries and historical events spanning 70 years. While we were busy fighting Hitler we were also being told that Joseph Stalin was one of the greatest men to have ever existed, so Marxism world-wide got a free pass as a result. The vast crimes of these regimes still are not mainstream knowledge or taught in history classes.


Both. Your beliefs about Contemporary Polytheism and historical Socialist Regimes is questionable. I actually have some knowledge of this issue, though I am no expert, and I suspect that your own knowledge is not great. For example, I think that your 100, 000, 000 death toll figure comes from the Black Book of Communism, which as been widely criticised for its poor scholarship.

Quote
I believe I gave context to my use of "our" earlier in that paragraph. I'm going to go ahead and assume that question to be a challenge to my suggesting there might be some commonality between pre-Abrahamic cultures. It's not an assumption or some far-fetched idea. Some academics base their whole careers around clarifying their uncanny similarities. My favourite subject is how ancient law systems have similar structures. If you'll excuse the layout being messed up on this site, I reprinted How the Infidels Can Save Civilization by James W. Zion which focuses on the Brehon-Native American connection.


I disagree. You can find similarities between many different cultures sure, especially when the issue in question is a practical matter. However, to focus on that alone ignores how cultures can be very different on other issues. Yet, in other cases, the similarities are only superficial, and disappear under closer inspection.
 
Quote
Yeah, I know. I knew I made an awful mistake when I looked at it and saw it was 5 paragraphs long. But hey, we worked it out! Right?


That remains to be seen.

Quote
I don't have to. The idea there was spirit and matter as two distinct realities didn't exist in the first place until Zarathustra and expanded upon by Descartes. Until Zarathustra's mental illness spread to Europe, Africa, and America, there was no language to make that distinction with. The lack of that delusion is my citation.


I highly doubt this, especially as it depends on your definition of 'spirit' and 'matter'. Is spirit identical to soul? For example.

And why is Zoroaster mentally ill? I am not too familiar with his history, but I'm not sure that it is practical to define a mental illness in someone who's history has been so highly mythologised.

Jabberwocky

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2016, 05:35:39 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;199660
Based on what I can extrapolate from Number 6's posts about what he means by 'Marxist', it seems I need to retract this, since I am Canadian.

Sunflower

There's also an odd lack of theory for an ex Trot.

(Being both an ex Trot and an ex cultural Marxist is somewhat strange as well.  The two interpretations of Marx don't overlap that frequently. Partly because the Frankfurt School aren't really that compatible with the structured vanguardism inherent to Trotskyism).

There's also the conflation of Stalinist regimes with Marxism in general.  Whereas Trots tend to either claim that those states are "degenerated worker's states" (orthodox) or "state capitalist" (IS traditional influence).

While I don't think the distance between Lenin, Trotsky and Stalin is as big as is sometimes claimed on the hard left, it's at least an argument I'd expect to see acknowledged by someone who's been in the Trot milieu.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 05:40:40 am by Jabberwocky »
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Sefiru

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2016, 06:38:54 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;199660
Based on what I can extrapolate from Number 6's posts about what he means by 'Marxist', it seems I need to retract this, since I am Canadian.

Sunflower


You know, that probably explains what confused me about this bit:

Quote from: Number 6;199620

The real world result of that is almost every piece of Feminist literature and almost every Feminist group/organisation is now Marxist.

 
Number 6, you are using one or both of those words ('Feminist' and 'Marxist') in a very different way than I do.

Sefiru

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2016, 06:51:44 pm »
Quote from: Number 6;199620
Note:
The idea there was spirit and matter as two distinct realities didn't exist in the first place until Zarathustra and expanded upon by Descartes. Until Zarathustra's mental illness spread to Europe, Africa, and America, there was no language to make that distinction with. The lack of that delusion is my citation.


(1) As a Kemetic, I can tell you that matter/spirit dualism existed long before Zarathustra.
(2) The dualism of Zarathustra was order/chaos (or good/evil or truth/falsehood, depending on the interpretation), not matter/spirit.
(3) If we're discussing matter/spirit dualism, Plato was more infuential than either Zarathustra or Descartes.
(4) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


Quote
All there was was the Law and the Chief, who was the embodiment of the Law and the people he/she served. Everything else in terms of social structure was a result of people working things out for themselves.
Essentially, a Libertarian paradise. Libertarians talk today of a system like this and try to convince people that it's possible, yet I find it strange they don't point people to the fact that it had been done before and stood for countless 1,000s of years before our current system of Law gradually eroded it through the sword and forced assimilation.


I suspect the decline of this social system has to do with it not scaling up well. Large populations and economic systems require more complex governments in order to function.

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Re: Paganism and (Marxist) Communism
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2016, 12:10:13 pm »
Quote from: Jabberwocky;199671
There's also an odd lack of theory for an ex Trot.

 
Yes, I found that quite noticeable, too, and I'm not ordinarily all that theory-focused.

Sunflower
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