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Author Topic: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?  (Read 5473 times)

RandallS

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2013, 07:17:42 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;132915
Where and when. The USian social construction of 'white enough' hasn't always included the Irish.

There was a lot of prejudice against Irish when they started arriving in the US in large numbers. They got a double whammy, the usual slight prejudice against immigrants from Europe combined (slight in comparison to those from other places at the time, at least) combined with a much more major prejudice against Catholics. The later prejudice is much reduced in the US today, at least outside of the Fundies, many of whom are convinced Catholics are really following Satan -- because that's what their preachers claim.
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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2013, 08:32:10 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;132982
The later prejudice is much reduced in the US today, at least outside of the Fundies, many of whom are convinced Catholics are really following Satan -- because that's what their preachers claim.

 
It's a fair bit better, but there's a lot under the surface still, even in places you wouldn't expect like the Northeast.

(I also got *way* more grief for being Catholic than I ever have for being Pagan, and that's in the 90s.)
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Merin

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2013, 01:55:02 am »
Quote from: EmissaryOfMinong;132654
Well, hey, at least you didn't start a land war in Central Asia. :)

NEVER get involved with a land war in Asia or go in on a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line! :D

Btw, how's the witchcraft going?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 01:55:37 am by Merin »

EmissaryOfMinong

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2013, 02:32:58 am »
Quote from: Merin;133013
NEVER get involved with a land war in Asia or go in on a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line! :D

Btw, how's the witchcraft going?

 
It was going pretty well, thanks, but I'm currently taking a break from studying it to put in a couple hours a night doing past life...stuff. Should get back to it in early 2014. :)

Lionrhod

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2013, 05:10:29 pm »
Quote from: Nyktipolos;132967
I understand. That was the only part I saw referenced to a goddess and potatoes, hence why I was wondering if I had missed a particular mention of this meme. I do understand why that paragraph can be offensive, but I feel like McCoy's work should be criticized for what she is writing, and not statements or figures created that are falsely attributed to her. It doesn't need it, in any case.


Exactly this.

IMO there are two kinds of people. (Well lol there are many more, but for the sake of this argument...)

People who conflate a problem by paraphrasing an author rather than sticking to the exact words that person use, and then further add to the problem by using charged words such as "racist."

AND

People who inform others about what is wrong with said author's work and focus on attacking the misinformation, not the person.

AND

(Slips into Cardinal Ximiez voice) Three! Three kinds of people: Those who are willing to realize that in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter.

Incidentally, if anyone thinks I can easily copy/paste someone's name, accents and all, then they haven't met my present very evil email program. Actually it might be a problem with system memory.

Lest someone call ME racist, understand that I don't have room to be. I'm a mix of over a dozen cultures, including at least 3 from the British Isles, Rom, Native American and the rest (that I know of) various shades of Western European, Eastern European, Scandanavian and possibly Mongol Hun.

If someone doesn't like McCoy, fine. Creating strawman arguments is less effective/useful than pointing out what actually IS wrong with her work.
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Valentine

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2013, 06:01:44 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;133132


Lest someone call ME racist, understand that I don't have room to be. I'm a mix of over a dozen cultures, including at least 3 from the British Isles, Rom, Native American and the rest (that I know of) various shades of Western European, Eastern European, Scandanavian and possibly Mongol Hun.

If someone doesn't like McCoy, fine. Creating strawman arguments is less effective/useful than pointing out what actually IS wrong with her work.

 
That...isn't how racism works.
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Lionrhod

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2013, 08:51:21 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;133139
That...isn't how racism works.

 
My point being that I have so far been convinced (as if I wasn't already) that McCoy does crappy research.

I have yet to be shown proof that she is a racist.

Why? Because she's fixated on potatoes? Because she presented something as Irish that obviously wasn't, based on her lack of knowledge/research into her own former trad?

So far that doesn't scream racist to me. Stupidity maybe, racism not yet.

So, what I have been asking for from the beginning - what specific examples of racism can be pointed out from this book/her books?

In other words instead of screaming "she is an evil person" I'd like to see concrete examples of specifically what she has done that's evil and specifically how what she has said has harmed someone.

If I were to say that X (a former trad member who may or may not be fictional) was an evil person, would everyone just take me at my word because I said so and over the course of one email exchange in which X may have been 1) trying to placate me 2) not feeling he had a reason to apologize 3) felt the whole thing was tedious? Or would you instead question me and whether I was in fact being fair since I did not make any concrete statements regarding why I said X was evil.

So far we've got

A) A statement that this was the old Irish way of doing stuff (which may have been "true" from the author's understanding of their path) Even if it is not true in fact.

B) A potato goddess who is no longer a potato goddess, but is now merely an association with root vegetables, of which the author seems to have an anachronistic fondness for potatoes.

C) No proof that the author has harmed anyone nor whether any "harm" was intentional.

D) Someone spending an inordinate amount of time/energy/electrons to "out" someone, who they could have as easily 1) published info on why the author was incorrect 2) laughed off and ignored.
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stephyjh

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2013, 09:57:15 pm »
Quote from: Valentine;133139
That...isn't how racism works.

 
Can I just second this? I mean, I'm descended from at least that many groups, and y'all saw me fuck up upthread. Aside from the fact that racism is an institutional thing.
A heretic blast has been blown in the west,
That what is no sense must be nonsense.

-Robert Burns

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