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Author Topic: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?  (Read 5588 times)

Aranel

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 02:34:59 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;130889
It's been years since I read anything by Edain McCoy, however having tried to read 2 or 3 pages of the site you offered, I find myself far more in sympathy with McCoy than the website author. I am not clear why he suggests that she is bigoted or racist either.

As I recall her books are a bit fluffy, but "a terrible person"? If she really IS a terrible person, can you link to specific pages/examples rather than a whole site, as to why we should believe this?

 
"A bit fluffy." A bit?!

Yeah... You see when somebody tries to claim that something is "the Old Religion of Ireland", and then calls said religion by a name that is a completely impossible word in Gaeilge, that's not "a bit fluffy". That's living inside of a cushion fluffy.

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 02:41:36 pm »
Quote from: EmissaryOfMinong;124027
I do want something that's roughly equivalent to a third degree course, but I'm not interested in being a priestess right now, so something not totally focused in that direction. If it's impossible to find a book that fulfills all of these requirements, please tell me that, and tell me which ones it does fulfill.

 
Quote from: EmissaryOfMinong;124027
I do want something that's roughly equivalent to a third degree course, but I'm not interested in being a priestess right now, so something not totally focused in that direction. If it's impossible to find a book that fulfills all of these requirements, please tell me that, and tell me which ones it does fulfill.

 
Granted, my personal path makes a strong delineation between the magickal side of teaching and the priestly side. As such, we study 2o arts/sciences of magick and then we also study the priestly arts. Mastery of 5 of the a/s are required per "elevation" (the magick side) which differs from "initiation" (the priestly side). Other paths may work this differently.

To study the magick arts, I highly suggest that you look into books that deal with each of the many different facets of magick on an individual basis. For instance, in studying what we call "runecraft and configuration" you might learn about the magick of several different symbolic systems including but not limited to the runes, gematria, sigils and sacred geometry.

On the priest side (and in my path when we say "third degree" we're speaking ONLY of the priest side) studies would be things like philosophy, counseling, how to deal with difficult/challenging people, hypnosis/NLP and so on.

Most importantly, studies for 3rd degree would include the day in/day out challenges that go into leading/being a member of a coven, handling the energies involved in group magick and so on. Things that really cannot be "taught" other than in a group setting.

I doubt there are any single texts that could possibly be a comprehensive "third degree-ish" substitute. The field of study, whether or not you include the priestly side or not, is just too broad and expansive to fit in any single book.
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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 02:47:51 pm »
Quote from: Aranel;130891
"A bit fluffy." A bit?!

Yeah... You see when somebody tries to claim that something is "the Old Religion of Ireland", and then calls said religion by a name that is a completely impossible word in Gaeilge, that's not "a bit fluffy". That's living inside of a cushion fluffy.

 
LOL as I said, it's been approximately 20-30 years since I read anything of hers. And since I don't have any of her books on my shelf to draw quotes from, I'm not going to draw conclusions from my vague recollection of reading a book that far back. Besides, there might be a chance that I'm thinking of one of the other fluffy authors that I've since weeded from my bookshelf. (LOL well since the house fire, virtually ALL books have been weeded from my shelf.)

I'm positive that I never read Witta at all. Not sure what book I did read. I do recall that one of my students came in with a book on Dragon Magick that was by her, and if I am correct that she was the author of that one, then it was incredibly over the top with feather pillows and clouds of whip cream fluffy.
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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2013, 02:49:34 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;130889
It's been years since I read anything by Edain McCoy, however having tried to read 2 or 3 pages of the site you offered, I find myself far more in sympathy with McCoy than the website author. I am not clear why he suggests that she is bigoted or racist either.

As I recall her books are a bit fluffy, but "a terrible person"? If she really IS a terrible person, can you link to specific pages/examples rather than a whole site, as to why we should believe this?


100% agreed.  Also [pet peeve alert here] if you read the intro text on this page, you'll learn hat "contacting Ms. McCoy directly did nothing other than illicit a negative response..."
 
All I'm going to say is there are several ways to elicit a negative response, some of which may or may not be illicit.  Ahem.

If you expect me to linger on your (arguably slanderous) "This Person Sucks" website, you need to not come across as a fucking idiot.  Call me picky.
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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2013, 08:47:39 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;130894
I do recall that one of my students came in with a book on Dragon Magick that was by her, and if I am correct that she was the author of that one, then it was incredibly over the top with feather pillows and clouds of whip cream fluffy.

 
That sounds more like D.J. Conway's Dancing with Dragons.

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 09:12:30 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;130920
That sounds more like D.J. Conway's Dancing with Dragons.

Sunflower

Conway also did a Mystical Dragon Magick.  4 stars on Amazon, fwiw.  I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot broom.

Nice cover art though, very D&D worthy.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 09:15:05 pm by MadZealot »
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Allec

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 11:26:39 pm »
Quote from: Lionrhod;130889
It's been years since I read anything by Edain McCoy, however having tried to read 2 or 3 pages of the site you offered, I find myself far more in sympathy with McCoy than the website author. I am not clear why he suggests that she is bigoted or racist either.

As I recall her books are a bit fluffy, but "a terrible person"? If she really IS a terrible person, can you link to specific pages/examples rather than a whole site, as to why we should believe this?

 
Which website are you referring too? I linked to stopedainmccoy.com, which is a site run by someone from Ireland who finds offense to her appropriation of his culture. Read his email, her reply, and his comments on her reply. McCoy's attitudes are disrespectful at best.

Disregarding the website directly, in Witta she claimed Ireland to have an ancient potato goddess (that's not true in the slightest.) The entire book is a disgrace to the actual culture of Ireland.

The consecsuallyreading.tumblr.com is a witch from the USA commenting on the misinformation given about witchcraft by McCoy. And yes, she's angry because these types of misinformation causes her personal grief in her day-to-day life as a secular witch. She also criticizes using quotes from the book with cited page numbers so you or anyone else can verify her reviews.
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Asch

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2013, 01:46:34 am »
Quote from: Allec;131083
Which website are you referring too? I linked to stopedainmccoy.com, which is a site run by someone from Ireland who finds offense to her appropriation of his culture. Read his email, her reply, and his comments on her reply. McCoy's attitudes are disrespectful at best.

Disregarding the website directly, in Witta she claimed Ireland to have an ancient potato goddess (that's not true in the slightest.) The entire book is a disgrace to the actual culture of Ireland.

The consecsuallyreading.tumblr.com is a witch from the USA commenting on the misinformation given about witchcraft by McCoy. And yes, she's angry because these types of misinformation causes her personal grief in her day-to-day life as a secular witch. She also criticizes using quotes from the book with cited page numbers so you or anyone else can verify her reviews.

 

That shit about the potato goddess is her being racist, period. It is in no way or shape true and equating potatoes with Irish people is not rooted in nice things to say the least. She's a disgrace and an object lesson in how not to do All The Things.

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 01:06:45 am »
Quote from: EmissaryOfMinong;124027
It's kind of hard for me to quantify where I am on my path, but I am not completely new to paganism. I know the majority of the basics (though there may be holes in my education), and I've just finished the Christopher Penczak second degree book The Outer Temple of Witchcraft, much to my relief (there were some things that went very badly when I did the exercises, and now that I've gotten to the initiation I don't feel at all comfortable initiating myself or seeking the next book in the series).


I'm running on little sleep, so if this post makes no sense, you all have my apologies.

So, what you are interested in is Witchcraft (and not Wicca)?  Yes?

As you probably know there a many different styles of Witchcraft--many traditions and ways of doing things.  At this point, I think you will need to figure what your "label" is or what direction you want to go.  Ceremonial? Folk? Discordian?  

And as someone else has said upthread, this is where you start to specialize in things that interest you.  Do you like working with herbs or crystals?  Do you enjoy creating/performing rituals?  Look for books on those topics.

BUT in all seriousness...you might want to consider putting the books down.  Assuming you are one who is seeking a spiritual connection in addition to your practice, I would suggest doing things like: celebrating the holidays, making offerings to the God/desses, meditating, and getting out into Nature.  Part of advancing to a new level is getting off that armchair...

EmissaryOfMinong

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 02:36:13 am »
Quote from: Merin;131858
So, what you are interested in is Witchcraft (and not Wicca)?  Yes?

Yes, exactly. I realize after reading many of the responses to the thread that I wasn't terribly clear on that in the OP, probably because I was having difficulty putting into words what I was searching for. Your input has helped me clarify that in my own mind. Thanks!

Quote from: Merin;131858

As you probably know there a many different styles of Witchcraft--many traditions and ways of doing things.  At this point, I think you will need to figure what your "label" is or what direction you want to go.  Ceremonial? Folk? Discordian?  


Mainly folk. In general I find myself more drawn to folk magic (not sure if that's the right label though) than anything else. I don't find a lot of stuff in books especially useful to begin with, because a lot of it is focused on spells or structured workings similar to spells, and I'm more intuitive with what I do. I also wish there were more books than one on the "godphone" phenomenon, but it's kind of a new and trendy term, and I don't know how to word a search for older material that may exist. Those are the two main avenues I'm pursuing at this point.

Quote from: Merin;131858

BUT in all seriousness...you might want to consider putting the books down.  Assuming you are one who is seeking a spiritual connection in addition to your practice, I would suggest doing things like: celebrating the holidays, making offerings to the God/desses, meditating, and getting out into Nature.  Part of advancing to a new level is getting off that armchair...

 
Good idea, thanks. I'm already incorporating offerings and meditation. It's in the single digits outside where I live at night (which is when I'm awake and not working - I'm on 2nd shift), so I'm not too keen on getting outside right now. But maybe I can get up and go on a snow walk some mornings when it's warm enough to breathe.

I have to admit I'm a little confused, though - what in the OP suggested that I don't have any kind of practice outside of reading? I mean, I said specifically I don't celebrate the Wheel of the Year holidays and don't use circles. I didn't say I don't talk to deities, don't honor deities, or don't use magic at all. I do all three of those things on a regular basis.

Thanks for all the responses, everyone.

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2013, 10:09:32 am »
Quote from: EmissaryOfMinong;131860
I have to admit I'm a little confused, though - what in the OP suggested that I don't have any kind of practice outside of reading? I mean, I said specifically I don't celebrate the Wheel of the Year holidays and don't use circles. I didn't say I don't talk to deities, don't honor deities, or don't use magic at all. I do all three of those things on a regular basis.

Thanks for all the responses, everyone.


As with the previous post I commented on in this thread, I'm not sure why you're getting all huffy at suggestions that don't precisely conform to your expectations (or read your mind).  Merin was responding to your first post in which you talked about books.  Just books.  In that light, it's not surprising the answer might have something to do with, you know, books.

Also, the huffy makes the "thanks" seem a little perfunctory.
 
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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 11:27:00 pm »
Quote from: yewberry;131887
As with the previous post I commented on in this thread, I'm not sure why you're getting all huffy at suggestions that don't precisely conform to your expectations (or read your mind).  Merin was responding to your first post in which you talked about books.  Just books.  In that light, it's not surprising the answer might have something to do with, you know, books.

Also, the huffy makes the "thanks" seem a little perfunctory.
 
Brina

 
I'm not trying to be huffy. I'm sorry that I've been coming off that way. I have difficulty expressing myself in forums in a neutral voice. Yes, I talked about books in the first post, and I also mentioned in said post that I didn't celebrate the Wheel of the Year holidays and didn't typically use a circle. No, I didn't say anything about what my regular practice actually consists of, so it is fair to assume from reading the OP that I only read about paganism and don't practice.

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2013, 07:31:22 am »
Quote from: EmissaryOfMinong;131860
I have to admit I'm a little confused, though - what in the OP suggested that I don't have any kind of practice outside of reading? I mean, I said specifically I don't celebrate the Wheel of the Year holidays and don't use circles. I didn't say I don't talk to deities, don't honor deities, or don't use magic at all. I do all three of those things on a regular basis.

I think it was more or less an assumption on my part to where you said that you don't celebrate the 8 holidays or communicate with the Deities (much).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 07:31:45 am by Merin »

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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2013, 11:16:17 am »
Quote from: Allec;131083
Which website are you referring too? I linked to stopedainmccoy.com, which is a site run by someone from Ireland who finds offense to her appropriation of his culture. Read his email, her reply, and his comments on her reply. McCoy's attitudes are disrespectful at best.

Disregarding the website directly, in Witta she claimed Ireland to have an ancient potato goddess (that's not true in the slightest.) The entire book is a disgrace to the actual culture of Ireland.

The consecsuallyreading.tumblr.com is a witch from the USA commenting on the misinformation given about witchcraft by McCoy. And yes, she's angry because these types of misinformation causes her personal grief in her day-to-day life as a secular witch. She also criticizes using quotes from the book with cited page numbers so you or anyone else can verify her reviews.

 
I read the same letter you linked to, but not the one with all the citations. By the time of my last post I was getting sick and tired of the subject. This time I went back and read the letter with the author's replies.

When from line one the author starts whining about a missing accent on their name, I know that I'm going to spend the rest of my letter rolling my eyes. Guess what? I don't have that kind of accent on my keyboard. I know there's a function somewhere in windows but I'm not going to go searching for it. So if this person wrote me an email they would most likely get an unaccented Hi so-and-so back too.

As said, I have not read Witta so I can't verify for myself this person's claim that McCoy is racist etc. I do agree that the claim that the USA is responsible for religions in South America was pretty funny. Racist, however is a strong word.

As for ancient Irish potato goddesses, that's pretty darn funny, and should probably serve as a warning to anyone that reads McCoys' book that something is a bit fishy. I suppose next someone will be writing about ancient Italian tomato goddesses.

However what I don't see on this site is any proof that the existence of this book in any way harms the author of the site.

Nor (as I would expect from all the nonsense of the letters) do I even see the author doing something which might actually be useful, which would be to point out the specifics of what is wrong with the book so that future potential readers of the book would be warned. Other than the potato goddess and the claim that this is an Irish tradition as taught her by her teachers, I am given no idea why this book is allegedly evil.

And no, I'm not going to go out and find a copy to read for myself. I have better things to spend my money on than a book which is obviously (at least in part) junk.

However, historical inaccuracies aside, I don't know that the entire book is junk, and it's even possible that some parts of it have helped some people.

It also appears that there was an earlier exchange of emails which was not printed on this site? Or is this person saying that other's have corrected him/her? That part is confusing. If there were earlier letters the author should probably have provided them. If not, it would certainly help to know what on earth the author is talking about.

(Can't seem to get it to copy/paste but I'm talking about the 3rd paragraph starting with "I have been corrected.")

Anyway, having read the letter, I still don't understand why the author thinks he/she is owed an apology.

Further, the author has made the mistake of attacking a person not the work in question. Thereby putting me in sympathy with McCoy no matter what I think of her work.
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Re: Edain McCoy: Good, bad, or indifferent? And where else should I be looking?
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2013, 11:34:11 am »
Quote from: Merin;132008
I think it was more or less an assumption on my part to where you said that you don't celebrate the 8 holidays or communicate with the Deities (much).

 
I would suspect that the overwhelming majority of people on this forum don't celebrate "the 8 holidays", since they're not actually a part of our religions.  We have our own, don't need those.
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