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Author Topic: Spoiler Tags  (Read 6700 times)

Juniperberry

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Spoiler Tags
« on: September 10, 2014, 02:46:55 am »
Something said in another thread about the decency of adding trigger warnings made me think it might be a good idea to go one step further and provide "spoiler tags" to hide that type of text from posts altogether, leaving it up to the reader to chose to read it.  

?

[Spoiler Tag Added -- see post #26 in this thread. -- Randall]
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 06:32:53 pm by RandallS »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

carillion

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 03:09:28 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;158569
Something said in another thread about the decency of adding trigger warnings made me think it might be a good idea to go one step further and provide "spoiler tags" to hide that type of text from posts altogether, leaving it up to the reader to chose to read it.  

?


How can one be sure what will be a 'trigger' for somebody? Also, threads drift - the only thing a mod. could do is tag something retroactively and even then it's hard to judge how many people will have read it by then.

Unless you can think of a way of listing those subjects that some people will be bothered by so they can be tagged *beforehand*?

Juniperberry

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 03:18:39 am »
Quote from: carillion;158576
How can one be sure what will be a 'trigger' for somebody? Also, threads drift - the only thing a mod. could do is tag something retroactively and even then it's hard to judge how many people will have read it by then.


Spoiler tags are usually a poster option, like italics or bold. So it'd be at your own discretion.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

carillion

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 03:27:18 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;158578
Spoiler tags are usually a poster option, like italics or bold. So it'd be at your own discretion.

 

Yes, but if one doesn't *know* what other people will respond to is I guess what I was trying to say...

Morag

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 04:04:50 am »
Quote from: carillion;158576
How can one be sure what will be a 'trigger' for somebody?

 
There are some big ones that you can be sure will always be a trigger for someone. Rape, abuse, graphic violence -- those come to mind, seeing as they're often upsetting to people who don't even have triggers around them. It's not a stretch to imagine they might be widely triggering for many people.

Basically, it involves thinking about what might affect other people before posting.
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carillion

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 04:34:22 am »
Quote from: Morag;158587
There are some big ones that you can be sure will always be a trigger for someone. Rape, abuse, graphic violence -- those come to mind, seeing as they're often upsetting to people who don't even have triggers around them. It's not a stretch to imagine they might be widely triggering for many people.

Basically, it involves thinking about what might affect other people before posting.


Yes, and I do appreciate warnings. For example, I'm not at all interesting in horror or violence as stand alone topics. I avoid the grisley details of such things even in news stories. However, if it is *in context* with a subject and not just a gratuitious throw in, then I can take it onboard. One doesn't have to go into the details of , say, FGM but I'm glad it's in the news as for so many years people didn't know or didn't want to know.
And for topics such as can come up here, the myths surrounding Osiris for example always grossed me out. But it's important for the mythology that one reads through it otherwise significant symbols and rituals would be lost. But certainly, one doesn't have to dwell on the explicit/horrifying parts but rather on how they relate to the greater story .

I think most adults would be able to figure out where most people's sensitivities lay though perhaps not for all people.

Scales

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 03:18:53 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;158569

It's also just kind of handy for hiding large photos or if you add an only semi-relevant anecdote to the end of a post or whatever. If it's doable in this forum software, I think it would be worth it.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 03:26:35 pm by Scales »

RandallS

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 08:28:34 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;158569
Something said in another thread about the decency of adding trigger warnings made me think it might be a good idea to go one step further and provide "spoiler tags" to hide that type of text from posts altogether, leaving it up to the reader to chose to read it.  

I've read this thread and I can probably add a "spoiler" BBCode. However, if they are added, TC will never require people to use them to hide material that might trigger someone else and will consider telling someone that they should have or ought to use them to hide such material to be a rules violation (telling others how to post).  

(Also, if we do add the tags, they will be added on a test basis -- if they interfere with quoting messages, they would have to be removed.)

Why will TC not require them:

1) Literally anything said might trigger someone (for example, this post might trigger someone who has problems with people refusing to do things they consider important), so thee only way to ensure that one one suffers would be to hide the totality of every post behind spoiler/trigger tags.

2) This is a debate and discussion board. Lots of issues (and the mere fact that debate is going on) are uncomfortable to some people. Hiding too much behind spoiler tags just makes discussion harder (and making discussion harder goes against the purpose of this board).

Given these limits, is this still something people would like to see.
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Valeria Crowe

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 08:51:47 am »
Quote from: RandallS;159882

Given these limits, is this still something people would like to see.

Heck yeah!

Besides, there're more reasons for spoilers than hiding triggers. Hiding spoilers, for starters!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 01:06:14 pm by SunflowerP »
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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 01:15:54 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;159882
Given these limits, is this still something people would like to see.

 
I will note that this is already something people can do voluntarily, by changing the text color to white (it's the bold underlined capital A, between 'sizes' and the emoticon, above the reply box). We'd disable that if we could, to prevent people from breaking the rule about sticking to the default font/color for their posts, but we can't; using it for spoilers or probable triggers would be a legitimate use for it.

Like so (highlight the seemingly-blank part to read): I LIKE PURPLE, BUT NOT TO READ POSTS IN!!!

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Amphibian

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 02:02:38 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;159920
I will note that this is already something people can do voluntarily, by changing the text color to white (it's the bold underlined capital A, between 'sizes' and the emoticon, above the reply box). We'd disable that if we could, to prevent people from breaking the rule about sticking to the default font/color for their posts, but we can't; using it for spoilers or probable triggers would be a legitimate use for it.

Like so (highlight the seemingly-blank part to read): I LIKE PURPLE, BUT NOT TO READ POSTS IN!!!

Sunflower

While I applaud the idea of using something that already exists, this is less than ideal from an accessibility standpoint, as it a) requires highlighting, which is difficult-to-impossible on some devices, and b) only properly hides if the background color is also white. (I don't know if the forum offers a light-on-dark style option, but this would break horribly with it.)

My vote is for an actual bbcode tag.

random417

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 02:05:45 pm »
Quote from: Amphibian;159926
While I applaud the idea of using something that already exists, this is less than ideal from an accessibility standpoint, as it a) requires highlighting, which is difficult-to-impossible on some devices, and b) only properly hides if the background color is also white. (I don't know if the forum offers a light-on-dark style option, but this would break horribly with it.)

My vote is for an actual bbcode tag.
I use a dark theme on Tapatalk, and the hidden text wasn't hidden for me. I'm pretty thick skinned, so going that route isn't gonna be a problem for me, but someone who's more easily triggered may have the same setup.
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Melamphoros

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 02:19:00 pm »
Quote from: Amphibian;159926
a) requires highlighting, which is difficult-to-impossible on some devices,


My laptop doesn't do highlighting well (if the bit of text is long enough, the highlight will disappear after you release the button) so I can imagine what it would be like to people who use a phone.

Quote

b) only properly hides if the background color is also white. (I don't know if the forum offers a light-on-dark style option, but this would break horribly with it.)

My vote is for an actual bbcode tag.

 
We do, it's called 'bold grey.'  I just switched over to it and the whitened text is visible on in.


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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 02:42:14 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;159930
We do, it's called 'bold grey.'  I just switched over to it and the whitened text is visible on in.

 
Aha. I really should have thought of this, since it was not long ago at all that I tested the new (blue) color for reminder moderation on all our style templates.

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Scales

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Re: Spoiler Tags
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2014, 02:49:25 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;159882
I've read this thread and I can probably add a "spoiler" BBCode. However, if they are added, TC will never require people to use them to hide material that might trigger someone else and will consider telling someone that they should have or ought to use them to hide such material to be a rules violation (telling others how to post).  

(Also, if we do add the tags, they will be added on a test basis -- if they interfere with quoting messages, they would have to be removed.)

Why will TC not require them:

1) Literally anything said might trigger someone (for example, this post might trigger someone who has problems with people refusing to do things they consider important), so thee only way to ensure that one one suffers would be to hide the totality of every post behind spoiler/trigger tags.

2) This is a debate and discussion board. Lots of issues (and the mere fact that debate is going on) are uncomfortable to some people. Hiding too much behind spoiler tags just makes discussion harder (and making discussion harder goes against the purpose of this board).

Given these limits, is this still something people would like to see.

 
Yes, absolutely.

Other than on fandom forums (which, actually, I'm not very familiar with, but based on the name I'm assuming it's a thing on them), I've never seen spoiler tags used as an actual ruled requirement.

They don't necessarily stop people from seeing triggering/offensive things, but they can make the difference between someone posting something and not, because they have the option to filter parts for only people who want to read them. Encouraging discussion is always good.

Plus, there's the hiding photos and text blocks thing.

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