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Author Topic: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection  (Read 8942 times)

Dragonoake

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2012, 04:04:19 pm »
Quote from: Sage;53378
In the fact they're both Indo-European?


My reading on the subject was 20 years ago and may be out-dated, but my understanding is that classical sources mention similarities in language and traditions between the Celts and the "white Syrians" - suggesting a common origin - and research at the time was placing the origin of both in the region of the Hars Mountains

Dragonoake

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2012, 04:09:00 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;53231
I wasn't even aware that Egyptians (or anyone from the Mediterranean region for that matter) were even black.  


Most of the people I have met from that area are dark, but I would hardly call them black.
OTOH, have you noticed that Alexander the Great is often depicted as blonde? :eek:
That would also seem rather unusual in that area

Devo

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2012, 04:51:37 pm »
Quote from: Sage;53393
I haven't seen the video and probably won't. Is she claiming some real-world "evidence", or is it all personal revelation from the gods?

 
We don't know. You have to pay money to attend her webinar to see what her revealed/learned knowledge is. So.. yeah.

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dionysiandame

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2012, 07:07:40 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;53231
I wasn't even aware that Egyptians (or anyone from the Mediterranean region for that matter) were even black.  Learn something new everyday, I suppose:whis:


So I guess all of that artwork and statuary of Egyptians with OBVIOUS black African features were just flukes? I will say that the Egyptian civilization was one of national and racial mixture, but black Africans were a part of that history whether as Kushites or Pharaohs.

And you ARE aware that Africans come in more shades than just one? Or are you of the impression that all of them look like the Masai?

I think afrocentrism is deplorable; but I find how quickly many people are to pretend as if black Africa had no part in the development of Egypt (since it IS part of Africa. At least the last time I looked on the map.) just as pathetic.

We ARE a part of history. Black Africans WERE part of the dynasty and history of Egypt; just as much as we were a part of the Kingdoms of Ethiopia, Great Zimbabwe, and Mali.
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Melamphoros

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2012, 07:32:10 pm »
Quote from: dionysiandame;53441
So I guess all of that artwork and statuary of Egyptians with OBVIOUS black African features were just flukes? I will say that the Egyptian civilization was one of national and racial mixture, but black Africans were a part of that history whether as Kushites or Pharaohs.

And you ARE aware that Africans come in more shades than just one? Or are you of the impression that all of them look like the Masai?


I didn't say that Egyptians weren't African, I was saying that they weren't Black African.  And IIRC, DNA tests show that the ancient Egyptians weren't that much different than the modern ones.  There may have been some darker-skinned Africans living in Ancient Egypt, but more than likely they were a minority.

Quote

I think afrocentrism is deplorable; but I find how quickly many people are to pretend as if black Africa had no part in the development of Egypt (since it IS part of Africa. At least the last time I looked on the map.) just as pathetic.

We ARE a part of history. Black Africans WERE part of the dynasty and history of Egypt; just as much as we were a part of the Kingdoms of Ethiopia, Great Zimbabwe, and Mali.

 
The thing is that there just isn't that much evidence to say what influenced Ancient Egyptian culture.  Given how it is located at a historically-important crossroad, it probably drew influence from many different peoples.


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dionysiandame

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2012, 08:06:00 pm »
Quote from: Melamphoros;53445
I didn't say that Egyptians weren't African, I was saying that they weren't Black African.  And IIRC, DNA tests show that the ancient Egyptians weren't that much different than the modern ones.  There may have been some darker-skinned Africans living in Ancient Egypt, but more than likely they were a minority.



So by your logic, the fact that Ethiopians have about 65% of their genome with Caucasians must mean THEY'RE European! Wow, I'm sure they would be fascinated to know that their culture, language, and history have nothing to do with who they are/were but merely who their genetic code link them to.

Actually, how about you come to Washington D.C. and tell that to the community yourself? I'm sure they'll be so honored.

While here, you can also tell the black Egyptians (a few of which identify as Nubian, despite being born in Southern Egypt...where Upper Egypt was, but that's just nonsense) at the local college campus that they're Arabs.

But wait who cares what those people have to say; right? Anecdotal evidence is so passe and not scholarly enough. What do those people who were born there and have years of family history, lore, legend, and cultural education know about anything?

I find it odd how no one questions Europeans portrayal of themselves in art yet show someone a (living) black Egyptian or a piece of culture, art, or even sarcophagi showing clearly black African features/people and people can think of all KINDS of reasons why that image should be ignored or considered a "one-off."

I mean crap, you can claim Irish in America and no one will bat an eyelash even if haven't had any Irish in you since that one night stand in college.

How about we just say "aliens" and call it even?
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HeartShadow

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2012, 08:41:13 pm »
Quote from: dionysiandame;53449
I find it odd how no one questions Europeans portrayal of themselves in art yet show someone a (living) black Egyptian or a piece of culture, art, or even sarcophagi showing clearly black African features/people and people can think of all KINDS of reasons why that image should be ignored or considered a "one-off."

 
I'm not sure that's true - there are PLACES it's true, yes.  But there's also a lot of people that get pissed over blond blue-eyed Jesus and whatnot as well.  (I really hate how the Greeks get turned blond, f'ex - because REALLY?)

Egypt itself was a big ol mixing pot - it was rich and it stood on a boundary.  So yes, it ran the spectrum of *color*.

The problem, I think, is that Egypt falls into European cultural heritage even though it's not *our* racial heritage .. and somehow that makes the entire damn conversation get weird.  And that's before you get into the conquering and who was RULING (which is also stupid) and ... it's just messy.

Is historical revisionism good?  No - in ANY direction.  It just makes things messier and makes the conversation ugly for everyone.  The problem is when it's revised in every damn direction to the point that we all end up confused on which one's NOT revisionist!

Annie Roonie

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2012, 08:44:10 pm »
Quote from: PlaceboArtist;53361

Out of interest, are there situations where white people are actively discriminated against by blacks? My instinctive thought is that there's all kinds of discrimination ever somewhere in the world, but I can't immediately think of any.


Discrimination, yes, I've experienced it. I live and work in a predominantly black neighborhood. Most everybody I see daily out of work is black. I am white and when I first moved here, the discrimination came in the form of mistrust and stereotyping about white people. It's a far cry from racism or even bigotry but until I proved myself, my neighbors were discriminating. I suppose they would be with anyone, and I've watched every new resident go through a bit of it, but mine was because I was the white lady.

For example, I woud not be included in any type of informal community meeting or celebration or vigil at the start, but would be approached for donations and fundraisers. I was not approached to just chill and chat, but it was assumed I had the jungle fever (the phrasing of a neighbor not mine) and wanted a lover (after the divorce - prior to that the dudes would not even look at me in the eye).

Flash forward years of just living, loving and loaning out of lawn tools and hollering from one porch to another and doing summer projects, and I am permitted in.  Have been in for years now and we talk about race very frankly here. We've cried together about the loss of a child. We laugh about our first misconceptions with each other when reminiscing.

Given the complexity of racism and bigotry in the US, I could not take offense to the way I was treated which wasn't really cruel or anything, just isolating. I'd be a bit untrusting too if my experiences and history were theirs. This community is not a privileged one so they have some of the standard written about experiences and growth, and I've met African Americans who do not identify the way people in my area do in the slightest. So I wouldn't say my experiences are universal at all.

I watched the video and what I saw in much of her was a person trying to build trust in a different way. Christianity has been one intense unifying force in the black communities I've been in. To not go to church on Sunday for an upstanding person is viewed with much mistrust. (Little ones ask me now and again why I don't go.) To not praise the lord every so often in conversation is likewise disconnecting for many people. I think she is trying to open doors and using her race as a way to make it feel safer to think differently about religion.

That being said, making false connections or assertions is seldom a great idea to get someone in the door!

Devo

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 08:51:54 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;53454

Egypt itself was a big ol mixing pot - it was rich and it stood on a boundary.  So yes, it ran the spectrum of *color*.


This is what most non-Afrocentrist Kemetics subscribe to. Most of us don't think Egypt was entirely black, brown, white or anything in btwn. It's a pretty well known fact that Nubians from the south mixed and mingled with the Egyptians- and that they were definitely darker. If you look at reliefs in tombs and temples, you'll see that there is more than one pigment used for skin. I think that would lend one to believe that there was more than one color running around Egypt.

What bothers me most about it is, Egyptians didn't make it about color. However, modern Kemetics are trying to. And in so doing, missing the point.

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monsnoleedra

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2012, 08:54:08 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;53454
.. The problem, I think, is that Egypt falls into European cultural heritage even though it's not *our* racial heritage .. and somehow that makes the entire damn conversation get weird.  And that's before you get into the conquering and who was RULING (which is also stupid) and ... it's just messy.

Is historical revisionism good?  No - in ANY direction.  It just makes things messier and makes the conversation ugly for everyone.  The problem is when it's revised in every damn direction to the point that we all end up confused on which one's NOT revisionist!


Personaly I think the biggest detremental aspect acting upon Egyptian history is the media.  Think of any film that deals with ancient Egypt and its almost always white actors / actresses playing the roles.  I recall some years ago there was a movie about ancient Egypt that was all black cast and it failed horribly because the public image was they were dark skinned europeans.  Elizabeth Taylor as Cleopatria (sp) then look to Yul Brennar (sp) as Ramises II in Moses as the two most prominante examples.

I do know I did read some facts that stated skin color was a big issue in the early days.  Then factor in that the Lower Nile and headwaters regions was very cross polinated with different peoples.  Even to the point of the travellers or sea people that are referenced in helping form and teach the first kingdom who were anything but black by description.  The Upper Nile more Black African in apperance.

I think part of the issue is also one has to look to the kingdom periods.  Before the Upper and Lower kingdoms were untied you had a lot of differences between them.  I suppose the Middle Kingdom period also had a lot of Greek influnce upon its persceptions before the ptolemic influences came into influence.

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2012, 10:03:57 pm »
Quote from: dionysiandame;53441
So I guess all of that artwork and statuary of Egyptians with OBVIOUS black African features were just flukes? I will say that the Egyptian civilization was one of national and racial mixture, but black Africans were a part of that history whether as Kushites or Pharaohs.

No doubt they were (as were a number of other peoples) considering Egypt's location. However, like with most ancient Mediterranean, they did not seem to care all that much about skin color so it's really hard to tell for sure who was and was not what we would consider "black" today.

To take an example from a period of history I'm more familiar with -- were they any black Roman Emperors? The correct answer is we do not know for sure. Septimius Severus (emperor around CE 200) came from Libya. His mother was known to be of Italic stock, but his father was a native of the area. A few descriptions of him note his dark skin but most statues of him do not show much in the was of North African features (but a couple do). More note seems to be taken of his accent than his skin color in writings about him. Was he (and his dynasty) black? No one knows for sure -- he certainly could have been, however, as skin color wasn't nearly as big a deal then and there as it is here and now, it's really impossible to say for sure.  The answer might even depend on how one defines "black".
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Dragonoake

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2012, 11:27:20 pm »
Quote from: dionysiandame;53441
I think afrocentrism is deplorable; but I find how quickly many people are to pretend as if black Africa had no part in the development of Egypt (since it IS part of Africa. At least the last time I looked on the map.) just as pathetic.


Last time I looked at the map, the Nile went well beyond the Egyptian border and it's probably safe to say just as many people sailed north from Sudan and Ethiopia as south from the Mediterranean, and since Egypt was where the action was in the day, a lot of them probably settled there

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2012, 08:30:38 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;53454
... Egypt falls into European cultural heritage....

 
We-ell, yeah, but most of the ways in which ancient Egypt gets claimed as part of European cultural heritage are of the "newer, now-dominant culture cherry-picks appealing bits from older no-longer-dominant culture" sort, not because Egypt was a strong influence on the development of those cultures.  Granted, it's pretty much What People Do, but IMO that's not a reason to gloss over the ways it's problematic.

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HeartShadow

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2012, 09:07:14 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;53574
We-ell, yeah, but most of the ways in which ancient Egypt gets claimed as part of European cultural heritage are of the "newer, now-dominant culture cherry-picks appealing bits from older no-longer-dominant culture" sort, not because Egypt was a strong influence on the development of those cultures.  Granted, it's pretty much What People Do, but IMO that's not a reason to gloss over the ways it's problematic.

Sunflower

 
I didn't mean to gloss - I meant to point out yet another way it gets into clusterfuck territory.  I mean, HOW much weird historical revisionism has been stuck on Egypt because "we like them so they couldn't've have been polytheistic/not-alien/not-divinely-inspired/not-Atlantean/actually-Atlantean/etc.  It's REALLY hard to figure out what's real and what's revisionism for non-scholars, especially if Egypt's more on the "interesting place" level than "my religious background must study" level.

spoOk

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Re: Why Runes Speak to Black People: The Kemetic Connection
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2012, 12:09:09 am »
Quote from: HeartShadow;53578
I didn't mean to gloss - I meant to point out yet another way it gets into clusterfuck territory.  I mean, HOW much weird historical revisionism has been stuck on Egypt because "we like them so they couldn't've have been polytheistic/not-alien/not-divinely-inspired/not-Atlantean/actually-Atlantean/etc.  It's REALLY hard to figure out what's real and what's revisionism for non-scholars, especially if Egypt's more on the "interesting place" level than "my religious background must study" level.

 
aaaaaannnnnd.....let's not forget the whole o.p. topic:
runes originated in Egypt....say what?!
as a pasty white girl with Celt heritage that picks my hide.

you guys got the hieroglyphics. what proof is there for this runes came from Egypt/Africa theory?
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