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Author Topic: Heathen Druid...is it possible?  (Read 11276 times)

boots99559

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Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« on: July 08, 2011, 01:15:21 am »
My first post on this SIG, so I'll start off with a hearty Hail and Well Met!

Okay, I'll try not to ramble, but it's been an issue of late. :p Ever since I've know that I was Pagan, I followed a pretty hard core Celtic Path. A few years ago, I found ADF and realized I'd been following a druidic path as well, without knowing it. Everything felt right, spiritually. Then a few weeks ago as I pondered why I had not ever felt connected with any of the Celtic Deities, I started reading on Norse Gods. And I felt that connection. That moment kind of rocked my 'lil world, to say the least. Anyway, the core of my post is I'm caught betwixt and between. There are a few things I don't really agree with within the Heathen community, well at least with what research I've done online and there's things from the druidic path that I really am stuck on that differ from what I've read on the Heathen sites. Is it possible to be a Heathen Druid? I know I've had a few folks tell me to just honor the Norse Gods instead of the Celtic Gods, but for me that can be like having a party for a Vegan friend and serving nothing but meat. *shrugs* As well, I know my path is my own, but even within Paganism, there are things that just do not mix well. Maybe I'm too much of a Traditionalist for my own good.

Ah, sorry for the rambling...I knew it would happen. :p

Asch

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 01:46:13 am »
Quote from: boots99559;2857
My first post on this SIG, so I'll start off with a hearty Hail and Well Met!

Okay, I'll try not to ramble, but it's been an issue of late. :p Ever since I've know that I was Pagan, I followed a pretty hard core Celtic Path. A few years ago, I found ADF and realized I'd been following a druidic path as well, without knowing it. Everything felt right, spiritually. Then a few weeks ago as I pondered why I had not ever felt connected with any of the Celtic Deities, I started reading on Norse Gods. And I felt that connection. That moment kind of rocked my 'lil world, to say the least. Anyway, the core of my post is I'm caught betwixt and between. There are a few things I don't really agree with within the Heathen community, well at least with what research I've done online and there's things from the druidic path that I really am stuck on that differ from what I've read on the Heathen sites. Is it possible to be a Heathen Druid? I know I've had a few folks tell me to just honor the Norse Gods instead of the Celtic Gods, but for me that can be like having a party for a Vegan friend and serving nothing but meat. *shrugs* As well, I know my path is my own, but even within Paganism, there are things that just do not mix well. Maybe I'm too much of a Traditionalist for my own good.

Ah, sorry for the rambling...I knew it would happen. :p

 
Presumably you're aware of this but within ADF it's wholly acceptable to have a Norse hearth culture.

boots99559

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 03:10:32 am »
Quote from: Asch;2865
Presumably you're aware of this but within ADF it's wholly acceptable to have a Norse hearth culture.



Yes, I am aware of ADF's stance on this, so to speak. Sadly, at the moment, I'm not able to afford the dues, so I can't post on the Norse list to find out how others deal with this. Speaking just for myself, it just doesn't feel right to honor the Norse Gods in that manner, despite the fact that ADF encompasses most Indo-European hearth cultures. But, all due respect, right now my head is whirl over this unexpected turn of events...

I've found the Druidic community on the whole, is accepting of the idea of a Heathen Druid, but the Heathen community has not been so much. (not implying anything I've seen from here, by any means.) So it's been kind of difficult to figure out what's what for me. Heck, I've had some Heathen forums not allow me to post, because of the Druidic aspect. *shrugs* So, I keep digging, reading and asking questions. :p

Asch

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 03:21:14 am »
Quote from: boots99559;2870
I've found the Druidic community on the whole, is accepting of the idea of a Heathen Druid, but the Heathen community has not been so much.


That may be a bit of a challenge (not trying to speak for anyone just my observations) it seems that the term Heathen is *quite* specific and denotes certain aspects. I don't know that you would ever be able to get a consensus from the community at large about the acceptability of a Druid-Heathen but if you don't mind a different label, such as Norse Druid etc, that may be more accepted.

hlewagastir

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 04:29:57 am »
Quote from: boots99559;2870

I've found the Druidic community on the whole, is accepting of the idea of a Heathen Druid, but the Heathen community has not been so much.


Here´s my opinion on the subject:

You can just separate it, honoring the heathen gods separatly from the Celtic gods.
I have a friend from a Catholic background; every winter he sacrifice to the Norse gods around the 21th and later the 25th he honor the Catholic god and his 5 billion saints.

We also know from the sagic material that at least one settler sacrificed to Thor before making journeys, but at home he was a baptised and worshipping Chrisitan.

The lable heathen implifies a reconstructionistic approach when within the Asatru/Heaten community... And AFAIK there is no historical instaces where people have sacrificed to the Celtic and Norse gods together. My advice would be to separate the practices (or calling yourself "Norse Druid" as Asch proposed).

cwummel

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 11:32:49 am »
Quote from: hlewagastir;2883
Here´s my opinion on the subject:

The lable heathen implifies a reconstructionistic approach when within the Asatru/Heaten community... And AFAIK there is no historical instaces where people have sacrificed to the Celtic and Norse gods together. My advice would be to separate the practices (or calling yourself "Norse Druid" as Asch proposed).

 
I agree with hlewagastir and Asch that you call yourself what you feel is appropriate, but keep the practices seperate.

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 02:40:21 pm »
Quote from: cwummel;2959
I agree with hlewagastir and Asch that you call yourself what you feel is appropriate, but keep the practices seperate.

 
I'm not familiar with Druidy, is it more of a law-speaker/priest function within the Celtic system? I'm asking because I wonder how closely related Druid and Godi are.
Don't know how much that pertains to the question but was the first thing I thought of.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

bobthesane

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 08:07:55 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;3000
I'm not familiar with Druidy, is it more of a law-speaker/priest function within the Celtic system? I'm asking because I wonder how closely related Druid and Godi are.
Don't know how much that pertains to the question but was the first thing I thought of.

If memory serves, druids did perform a combination skald/priest/godhi function within Celtic society. It's not that the concept of a druid is foreign to us. Quite the opposite. It's that druidry strongly implies Celtic cultural influence, while heathen denotes recon germanic beliefs.

Look into Orkneyjar, mayhap there is something among them that you may find useful,  Boots

boots99559

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 10:38:13 pm »
Hehe, I'm not sure if this is the best way to do this, but it seems to me taking each response in a separate post would keep this less confusing.

Quote from: Asch;2872
That may be a bit of a challenge (not trying to speak for anyone just my observations) it seems that the term Heathen is *quite* specific and denotes certain aspects. I don't know that you would ever be able to get a consensus from the community at large about the acceptability of a Druid-Heathen but if you don't mind a different label, such as Norse Druid etc, that may be more accepted.

 

For the most part, the name of the path doesn't matter to me. It's the path itself that I'm concerned with. I kind of take my grandfather's take on it. 'Call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for dinner.' :p The only thing about the name of the path that matters for me, is simply ease of explaining to those that ask. But years of simply calling myself Pagan has gotten me used to that. :p

boots99559

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 10:46:17 pm »
Quote from: hlewagastir;2883
Here´s my opinion on the subject:

You can just separate it, honoring the heathen gods separatly from the Celtic gods.

 
This is part of my issue. It's not that I would honor the Celtic Gods at the same time as the Norse Gods, because to me that would be disrespectful to both. The Celtic Gods have never really called to me, not in the same manner that the Norse Gods have of late. I know that sounds odd, given that I've followed a Celtic path, but now I know what it means to have that connection. But I do understand what you are saying.

boots99559

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 11:04:25 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;3000
I'm not familiar with Druidy, is it more of a law-speaker/priest function within the Celtic system? I'm asking because I wonder how closely related Druid and Godi are.
Don't know how much that pertains to the question but was the first thing I thought of.

 

I hate to say it, but even among the Druidic community, sometimes this is an area of contention. There are those that say, as Bob says, Druids are the Skalds/Priests/Godi for the Celts. An earned title after years of study and dedication, which I do agree with somewhat. Then there are those that say that Druidry is a path, not just a title. Now, I'll admit I've become somewhat lazy in saying I'm a Druid in that context. I usually say I'm on the Druidic path, because I do not feel I've earned the Title (just my personal choice, not implying anything to those that do call themselves a Druid). But, after too many years of trying to be Politically Correct and getting hammered by too many folks no matter how I term it, I've given up on that. :p

boots99559

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 11:23:01 pm »
Quote from: bobthesane;3094
If memory serves, druids did perform a combination skald/priest/godhi function within Celtic society. It's not that the concept of a druid is foreign to us. Quite the opposite. It's that druidry strongly implies Celtic cultural influence, while heathen denotes recon germanic beliefs.

Look into Orkneyjar, mayhap there is something among them that you may find useful,  Boots



I'll definitely look into Orkneyjar, although after a quick Google, it looks like I'll have to earn my 'Ferret' nickname again. :p

I do understand the Druid-Celtic implication. ADF is pretty much built around a Celtic framework, (to me), although they do have other Hearth Cultures as Asch pointed out. They even are accepting of a Vedic Hearth culture, which quite honestly has me scratching my head, but anyway that's a horse of a different color.

 Speaking only for myself, Druidry is more of an outlook, not necessarily connected to your spirituality, if that makes any sense. Part of my problem right now is, I'm not really sure where I'm going to end up since I'm in the process of looking at my own beliefs and questioning why I feel/believe that (i.e. Do I really feel this way or do I believe it because it's what has been presented to me?). It doesn't help that I've had folks tell me things I know is BS, is in 'Only people that follow a strict Heathen path can honor the Norse Gods' But it still makes the search for my personal truth harder. Anyway, I ramble...And I do apologize if my posts are...spastic but I'm finding out just how much a nine month old can find to get into. :p

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2011, 04:26:47 pm »
Quote from: boots99559;3190
I hate to say it, but even among the Druidic community, sometimes this is an area of contention. There are those that say, as Bob says, Druids are the Skalds/Priests/Godi for the Celts. An earned title after years of study and dedication, which I do agree with somewhat. Then there are those that say that Druidry is a path, not just a title. Now, I'll admit I've become somewhat lazy in saying I'm a Druid in that context. I usually say I'm on the Druidic path, because I do not feel I've earned the Title (just my personal choice, not implying anything to those that do call themselves a Druid). But, after too many years of trying to be Politically Correct and getting hammered by too many folks no matter how I term it, I've given up on that. :p

 
Thanks for the info, Bob. :)

My line of thinking was that if you liked the function of a Druid but felt a pull to the north culture and gods that those functions were transferrable to a godhi. (Which, I think, is a long process but there are mailing lists and stuff out there.)

But it sounds like its not as simple as that for you?
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Sage

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2011, 04:38:52 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;3376
Thanks for the info, Bob. :)

My line of thinking was that if you liked the function of a Druid but felt a pull to the north culture and gods that those functions were transferrable to a godhi. (Which, I think, is a long process but there are mailing lists and stuff out there.)

But it sounds like its not as simple as that for you?

 
Unfortunately, the definition of Druid is still up in the air for those on a modern path. A lot of it depends on which Neo-Druid organization you belong to. Those based on Romantic Druidry have one idea, while a more scholarly organization like ADF has another.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Druid...is it possible?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2011, 04:53:25 pm »
H.
Quote from: Sage;3379
Unfortunately, the definition of Druid is still up in the air for those on a modern path. A lot of it depends on which Neo-Druid organization you belong to. Those based on Romantic Druidry have one idea, while a more scholarly organization like ADF has another.

 
Ah. Yeah, I have no clue, heh.  Thought I'd throw some of my uninformed thoughts out there on the off-chance that it'd trigger some ideas for Boots.

Thanks for sharing those insights into the community, Sage. :)
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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