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Author Topic: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses  (Read 1029 times)

DancesWithHorses

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Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« on: July 12, 2012, 10:00:35 am »
I'm making this a new thread because it intrigues me, can't stop thinking it over. It started with this post from Juniperberry:

Quote from: Juniperberry;63591
If you guys have family and friends then in a sense you're not solitary. Heathenry is about good relationships between the gods, our ancestors and our families. Joining a kindred, sumbling ...those are just expression of that core practice in a group. But you have groups other areas of your life where you practice the same concepts. Everyday that you stand by your word to others, interact honorably with others, then you're heathen with others.


I've read everything I could find on the beliefs other than just the myths, legends and folklore (as a sidenote, if anyone is interested in south germany/swiss lore or questions, I'm calling my grandmother this weekend, PM me if you want).

What are your thoughts on the Nine Noble Virtues? I'm finding them incredibly easy to work with. My parents raised us to work hard and take responsibility for everything (no blaming anyone else including God, you mess up, you clean it up). Our doors are always open to someone, right now I have temporary little brother, he wanted to learn to milk goats, he gets to live with us for a few weeks. I'm finding I enjoy this aspect even more then just the gods calling to me. It's like finally, I found a place where my beliefs are welcome.

What are your thoughts in family talents? Do you believe that one is born with certain raw talents that are passed down through families?
Jinx or Jinxy :)
Add a dash of folklore, a few centuries of farmer\'s blood and mix well.
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Lokabrenna

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 11:26:04 am »
Quote from: DancesWithHorses;63793

What are your thoughts on the Nine Noble Virtues? I'm finding them incredibly easy to work with. My parents raised us to work hard and take responsibility for everything (no blaming anyone else including God, you mess up, you clean it up). Our doors are always open to someone, right now I have temporary little brother, he wanted to learn to milk goats, he gets to live with us for a few weeks. I'm finding I enjoy this aspect even more then just the gods calling to me. It's like finally, I found a place where my beliefs are welcome.


I don't have much use for "list ethics", TBH. To me it just becomes a list of boxes I need to check off: "Was I hospitable today? Did I show courage in this situation?" And I think the NNV leaves a lot of things that I would consider a key part of my ethics out. What of joy? Love? Moderation? Care for the environment (which is just as much a part of our community as other humans, IMHO)?

Quote
What are your thoughts in family talents? Do you believe that one is born with certain raw talents that are passed down through families?


I don't think the talents themselves are passed on (our genes don't have a mechanism to carry that sort of information). If both your parents are bakers, and you grow up measuring flour and making sure yeast behaves itself, is it really that surprising if you want to become a baker yourself (or, conversely, that you get sick of baking and want to do something else)? Even people who seem to be "naturally" talented still need to practice, practice, practice.

DancesWithHorses

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 11:48:43 am »
Quote from: Lokabrenna;63798
I don't have much use for "list ethics", TBH. To me it just becomes a list of boxes I need to check off: "Was I hospitable today? Did I show courage in this situation?" And I think the NNV leaves a lot of things that I would consider a key part of my ethics out. What of joy? Love? Moderation? Care for the environment (which is just as much a part of our community as other humans, IMHO)?


I see what you mean. I look at them more of guidelines, less check-list. I do see the NNV as useful to myself since I am still rather new to heathenism. Not the paganism but to heathenism itself.

Quote

I don't think the talents themselves are passed on (our genes don't have a mechanism to carry that sort of information). If both your parents are bakers, and you grow up measuring flour and making sure yeast behaves itself, is it really that surprising if you want to become a baker yourself (or, conversely, that you get sick of baking and want to do something else)? Even people who seem to be "naturally" talented still need to practice, practice, practice.

 
You do have a point. My dad is 100% convinced of this while my sister sits on the complete other side of the fence. Disagreeing with the practice, because if you are naturally talented, it take a whole lot less practice. And they'll always look better. My cousin and I both grew up skiing but he will always be better at it than me, he looks like he was born on skies.
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Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 06:48:16 pm »
Quote from: DancesWithHorses;63793

What are your thoughts on the Nine Noble Virtues?

I think in the early days of Norse reconstruction they were they communities answer to the Wiccan Rede.  Not that they aren't useful. I don't worry myself over them too much.

For me, the simplest mantra is a gift for a gift. If I "gift" someone with an attitude I can expect them to return the same. If I gift them with kindness I should be able to expect the same. And so on and so forth to include interactions with gods, dead, and spirits.

Quote
What are your thoughts in family talents? Do you believe that one is born with certain raw talents that are passed down through families?

You might want to read up on the Hamingja. Though reincarnation isn't mentioned as often, the concept of inheriting a family member's Luck (talent, skill, personality,  supernatural...affections?) is, if irc.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 06:48:48 pm by Juniperberry »
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randomheathen

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 03:39:05 am »
Quote from: DancesWithHorses;63793

What are your thoughts on the Nine Noble Virtues? I'm finding them incredibly easy to work with. My parents raised us to work hard and take responsibility for everything (no blaming anyone else including God, you mess up, you clean it up). Our doors are always open to someone, right now I have temporary little brother, he wanted to learn to milk goats, he gets to live with us for a few weeks. I'm finding I enjoy this aspect even more then just the gods calling to me. It's like finally, I found a place where my beliefs are welcome.


I don't really care for the NNV, they're too vague. Different people can have differing definitions for them and there's a lot of room for confusion. Since they're distilled from the Havamal in the the first place, I'd rather read that. Then you at least get some cool proverbs to quote.

Quote

What are your thoughts in family talents? Do you believe that one is born with certain raw talents that are passed down through families?

 
Hmmm, maybe. That's a hard one. My first thought would be 'no, of course not, that's preposterous,' but some things are certainly genetic (like alcohol tolerance :D: ) and some things you wouldn't think would be genetic but I can't think of another explanation for them. For instance, I'm a pretty good shot with a gun. Not extraordinary, but enough to get impressed looks at the range. Thing is, I've only been out shooting three times. I don't put much stock in beginner's luck, and natural talent has to come from somewhere, right? (both my parents are excellent shots).

Talents like cooking or gardening? Not genetic. Most likely absorbed through observation, since little kids' brain tend to act like sponges.
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DancesWithHorses

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2012, 08:50:28 am »
Quote from: randomheathen;65766

Hmmm, maybe. That's a hard one. My first thought would be 'no, of course not, that's preposterous,' but some things are certainly genetic (like alcohol tolerance :D: ) and some things you wouldn't think would be genetic but I can't think of another explanation for them. For instance, I'm a pretty good shot with a gun. Not extraordinary, but enough to get impressed looks at the range. Thing is, I've only been out shooting three times. I don't put much stock in beginner's luck, and natural talent has to come from somewhere, right? (both my parents are excellent shots).

Talents like cooking or gardening? Not genetic. Most likely absorbed through observation, since little kids' brain tend to act like sponges.


That is a great example. My mother never misses... I always do, didn't get that gene apparently. My family puts a lot of stock in natural talent. Of course nobody knows where the horse-crazy bug came from ;) My dad still argues that has to come from mom's side. Because to him it is unthinkable that it didn't come somewhere through the genes.
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IceAngie

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 10:17:50 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;65718
I think in the early days of Norse reconstruction they were they communities answer to the Wiccan Rede.  Not that they aren't useful. I don't worry myself over them too much.

 
Do you mean they answered to the Wiccan Rede as such, or to some sort of Rede-like idea?

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 08:12:45 pm »
Quote from: IceAngie;65971
Do you mean they answered to the Wiccan Rede as such, or to some sort of Rede-like idea?

 
I'm guessing JB meant they were a response to social pressures in Pagandom to have some kind of (soundbite-suitable) statement of ethics.

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Re: Heathen beliefs beyond the gods/godesses
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 11:23:18 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;66872
I'm guessing JB meant they were a response to social pressures in Pagandom to have some kind of (soundbite-suitable) statement of ethics.

Sunflower

 
Oh. That makes sense. Thanks, Sunflower.

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