collapse
2020 Donation Drive

It's time for our annual Server Donation Drive! We need to raise at least $710 to keep The Cauldron's server online for another year. Please help! Either hit that Paypal button to the right and make a one-time donation in any amount or set up a monthly Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor subscription. You can find more info in this message!

Donations as of 17 September 2020: $535 donated. Only $175 more need! Thank you, donors!


Note: This total is updated manually, usually once a day


* "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" Problem Logging In?

If you get an "Unable to verify referring url. Please go back and try again" error when you try to log in, you need to be sure you are accessing the board with a url that starts with "https://ecauldron.com".  If it starts with https://www.ecauldron.com" (or "http://www.ecauldron.com") you will get this error because "www.ecauldron.com" is not technically the same website as "ecauldron.com". Moving to the more secure "https" means it is more picky about such things.

Author Topic: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?  (Read 1719 times)

hraefngar

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 79
  • Total likes: 2
    • View Profile
Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« on: March 25, 2017, 08:36:29 am »
I am posting this in the "Asatru and Heathenry SIG"  but if it doesn't belong here, then my apologies to the moderators and feel free to move it.  

At this point, I consider myself more of an Odinsman than a Heathen per se.  I honor Odin, and I will honor 2 or 3 other deities that seem especially connected to Odin, but otherwise I am not inclined to honor the other Germanic deities unless I am in a group setting that forces me to do so.  

Further, the amount of "baggage" that comes with Asatru and Heathenry is reaching endemic proportions. Racism and homophobia on one end, and mindless Viking warrior macho nonsense on the other.

I have decided I more of an Odinic mage interested in the modern occult scene than in historical expressions of Heathenry (though I study those historical expressions on the interest of erudition).  I have begun drifting to neodruidry, ceremonial magick and modern witchcraft.  

I have noticed a lot of people who post on this forum use religious descriptors that are something other than Heathen.  I was wondering, can you speak a little bit as to how you work with/honor Germanic deities in religious environments other than Heathenry/Asatru?  

Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:37:07 am by hraefngar »

Megatherium

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • *
  • Posts: 303
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 68
    • View Profile
  • Religion: Heathen(ish)
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2017, 09:50:16 pm »
Quote from: hraefngar;204107
I am posting this in the "Asatru and Heathenry SIG"  but if it doesn't belong here, then my apologies to the moderators and feel free to move it.  

At this point, I consider myself more of an Odinsman than a Heathen per se.  I honor Odin, and I will honor 2 or 3 other deities that seem especially connected to Odin, but otherwise I am not inclined to honor the other Germanic deities unless I am in a group setting that forces me to do so.  

Further, the amount of "baggage" that comes with Asatru and Heathenry is reaching endemic proportions. Racism and homophobia on one end, and mindless Viking warrior macho nonsense on the other.

I have decided I more of an Odinic mage interested in the modern occult scene than in historical expressions of Heathenry (though I study those historical expressions on the interest of erudition).  I have begun drifting to neodruidry, ceremonial magick and modern witchcraft.  

I have noticed a lot of people who post on this forum use religious descriptors that are something other than Heathen.  I was wondering, can you speak a little bit as to how you work with/honor Germanic deities in religious environments other than Heathenry/Asatru?  

Thanks.


Though I do consider myself Heathen(ish), I'm sure some of my interactions with deities would not fall under the typical interactions that many modern Heathens have identified as being an appropriate fit for a Heathen worldview.

As far as I know, many modern Heathens have identified religious rituals which are community focused and involve the maintenance of a gift-giving relationship with the Gods as important/paramount/the-only-religious-acitivty-involving-the-Gods-that-is-meaningful (depending on their perspective). And though I do find those interactions to be important, there are times when my interactions with the Gods have nothing to do with my community or a gift-giving cycle.

Sometimes I just like to say a prayer to a deity when the feeling strikes me. If a storm arrives, I'll often say a prayer to Thor. When the snows fall I pray to Holle and/or Skadi. When the moon strikes me a certain way I pray to Nott and Mani. None of these interactions involve a gifting cycle or a wider community, but they are particualrly satisfying to me.

I know that may not be exactly what your looking for, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to chip in.
My views are one that speaks to freedom.
-George W. Bush

sevensons

  • Journeyman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2017
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: gb
  • Total likes: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 04:53:57 am »
Quote from: hraefngar;204107


I have decided I more of an Odinic mage interested in the modern occult scene than in historical expressions of Heathenry (though I study those historical expressions on the interest of erudition).  I have begun drifting to neodruidry, ceremonial magick and modern witchcraft.  .

 
What is considered as modern witchcraft. is it using new items like computers I am sure alders modernise them selves.
Awaken myself alive and well loving to start learning today ahead a challenge set by the Gods. Haven't

Instagram stevejomac

Hildeburh

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 50
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2017, 08:37:57 pm »
Quote from: hraefngar;204107
I am posting this in the "Asatru and Heathenry SIG"  but if it doesn't belong here, then my apologies to the moderators and feel free to move it.  

At this point, I consider myself more of an Odinsman than a Heathen per se.  I honor Odin, and I will honor 2 or 3 other deities that seem especially connected to Odin, but otherwise I am not inclined to honor the other Germanic deities unless I am in a group setting that forces me to do so.


Not all Heathens honour all the Germanic deities, since there are so many, I would say the majority  do not, though some Asatru get around this issue by raising a glass to 'all the gods and goddesses'. Sometimes that is an expression of hospitality extended to those whose deities are not the primary focus of the blot, but the practice is a bit too modern and generic for my taste.

 Historically, there is evidence of henotheism within Heathery, where gods such as Odin, Thor or Freyr were the primary focus of individuals. This was particularly the case in Iceland, where from the sagas, place and personal name evidence it appears that Thor was pre-eminent. So your focus on Odin and deities associated with Odin is probably closer to the traditional Heathen worldview than trying to honour the Norse pantheon in its entirety.

Quote from: hraefngar;204107
Further, the amount of "baggage" that comes with Asatru and Heathenry is reaching endemic proportions. Racism and homophobia on one end, and mindless Viking warrior macho nonsense on the other.


We certainly have our share of knuckle draggers but a good deal of these individuals and cults cannot be considered Heathen, they are neonazis, folkish racists, anti semites, Wotanists and dumbasses that use our gods to further their personal agendas. No different from fringe dwellers who use other religions and mythologies to justify violence.

Modern heathenry is not a continuation of the early racist/folkish cults that had their genesis in pre-WWII Germany, it had a separate development and has an entirely different worldview. There is still an ongoing folkish vs universalist debate within Asatru (which is only one of many Heathen cults) but the vast majority are universalist. Most moderm Heathens have no time for folkish twaddle.

Quote from: hraefngar;204107
I have decided I more of an Odinic mage interested in the modern occult scene than in historical expressions of Heathenry (though I study those historical expressions on the interest of erudition).  I have begun drifting to neodruidry, ceremonial magick and modern witchcraft.


This is more eclectic religious witchcraft, you may get a wider range of answers to your question in a group that focuses on this area.

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8728
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 335
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2017, 10:30:14 pm »
Quote from: Hildeburh;204291
This is more eclectic religious witchcraft, you may get a wider range of answers to your question in a group that focuses on this area.

 
A Reminder:
Hildeburh,

Just a reminder that it's not up to you to instruct people in where they should or shouldn't post, even if phrased as 'helpful advice'. This SIG has SIG Leaders, Hyacinth Belle and Megatherium, who are certainly capable of informing someone that they've posted in the wrong place, if in fact they've done so.

Similarly, forum staff are entirely capable of moving the thread (as Hraefngar himself noted as a possibility) if it's not in the correct place. We have not; I assure you that that is - on my own part at any rate - quite intentional.

Hraefngar's question relates to the fact that many of those who participate in this SIG don't identify as heathen, and as such is no more out of place than those participants are. (You might personally feel that they are, but that's also not up to you to decide.)

Sunflower
TC Forum Staff
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Jack

  • Adept Member
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2012
  • Location: Cascadia
  • Posts: 3181
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 98
    • View Profile
    • Dwarvenpunk
  • Religion: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Preferred Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2017, 11:06:25 pm »
Quote from: hraefngar;204107
Further, the amount of "baggage" that comes with Asatru and Heathenry is reaching endemic proportions. Racism and homophobia on one end, and mindless Viking warrior macho nonsense on the other.

 
I use the word heathen as a bit of a catch-all in some contexts, but you're right, it's absolutely a loaded term and I don't use it very often for that reason. Sometimes I'll fall back on Lokean, also depending on the context, but obviously that's not a word choice for everyone either. ;)

I don't see any reason not to honor Odin or any other Norse god in a different magical or non-Norse-specific religious context. Odin's never had trouble letting me know if he wanted me to do something different. Odin is also known for his opportunism, and moreover, I always got the impression he wanted me to study and read widely, not just in the fields of divination and magical theory associated with heathenry.

Odin is probably one of the best gods to try honoring in other ways, frankly.

Just don't call yourself an Odinist. ;)
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Hildeburh

  • Sr. Apprentice
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 50
  • Total likes: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 06:44:29 am »
Quote from: SunflowerP;204296
A Reminder:
Hildeburh,

Just a reminder that it's not up to you to instruct people in where they should or shouldn't post, even if phrased as 'helpful advice'. This SIG has SIG Leaders, Hyacinth Belle and Megatherium, who are certainly capable of informing someone that they've posted in the wrong place, if in fact they've done so.

Similarly, forum staff are entirely capable of moving the thread (as Hraefngar himself noted as a possibility) if it's not in the correct place. We have not; I assure you that that is - on my own part at any rate - quite intentional.

Hraefngar's question relates to the fact that many of those who participate in this SIG don't identify as heathen, and as such is no more out of place than those participants are. (You might personally feel that they are, but that's also not up to you to decide.)

Sunflower
TC Forum Staff

 
Thanks for the heads up but personally I don't care who posts what where. It was a suggestion for a wider range of answers to his question, not an instruction to hightail it to another thread. Heathen non Heathen as far as I am concerned everyone is free to honour our gods.......the more the merrier.

SunflowerP

  • Host
  • *
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Location: Calgary AB
  • Posts: 8728
  • Country: ca
  • Total likes: 335
  • Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
    • View Profile
    • If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough
  • Religion: Eclectic religious Witchcraft
  • Preferred Pronouns: sie/hir/hirs/hirself
Re: Germanic/Norse gods, but not "Heathen" ?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2017, 11:18:19 pm »
Quote from: Hildeburh;204318


 
*** MOD HAT ON ***
Hildeburh,

'DO NOT argue with, comment on, complain about, criticize, or otherwise discuss staff decisions on rules issues in public in Cauldron community areas.' That includes reminders, as well as warnings, and applies whether or not the reminder/warning includes a reiteration of the rule I cited.

The issue was not that you were telling Hraefngar to hightail it, the issue was that you were doing staff's/SIG Leaders' job - specifically, providing unsolicited advice about where to post to get more responses. The fact that it was, indeed, a suggestion rather than a direct instruction is why you got a reminder rather than a warning.

This one, as you can see, is a warning, since it is a direct and clear-cut rules violation; it is your first strike.

Sunflower
TC Forum Staff
I'm the AntiFa genderqueer commie eclectic wiccan Mod your alt-right bros warned you about.
I do so have a life; I just live part of it online!
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.” - Oscar Wilde
"Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
My much-neglected blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough"

Tags:
 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
31 Replies
7648 Views
Last post August 11, 2011, 01:49:10 pm
by arkeiryn
71 Replies
11143 Views
Last post April 30, 2017, 05:25:58 am
by Sobekemiti
3 Replies
1300 Views
Last post July 07, 2012, 03:47:47 pm
by DancesWithHorses
11 Replies
2859 Views
Last post September 01, 2014, 07:40:04 pm
by BlindBardRLB
9 Replies
2730 Views
Last post August 26, 2016, 10:38:28 am
by Kylara

Special Interest Group

Warning: You are currently in a Special Interest Group on the message board with special rules and focused discussions.

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 61
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Please Donate!

The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.

* Shop & Support TC

The links below are affiliate links. When you click on one of these links you will go to the listed shopping site with The Cauldron's affiliate code. Any purchases you make during your visit will earn TC a tiny percentage of your purchase price at no extra cost to you.

* In Memoriam

Chavi (2006)
Elspeth (2010)
Marilyn (2013)

* Cauldron Staff

Host:
Sunflower

Message Board Staff
Board Coordinator:
Darkhawk

Assistant Board Coordinator:
Aster Breo

Senior Staff:
Aisling, Jenett, Sefiru

Staff:
Allaya, Chatelaine, EclecticWheel, HarpingHawke, Kylara, PerditaPickle, rocquelaire

Discord Chat Staff
Chat Coordinator:
Morag

Cauldron Council:
Bob, Catja, Emma-Eldritch, Fausta, Jubes, Kelly, LyricFox, Phouka, Sperran, Star, Steve, Tana

Site Administrator:
Randall