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Author Topic: Heathen Soul?  (Read 3120 times)

Meritmut

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2012, 01:09:05 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;62703
Makes sense. I was just wondering if there was something specific on your mind that made you want some answers.

I'm fascinated by death, myself. I've had some experiences that convinced me that there is an afterlife and a supernatural reality, so I tend to read a lot about it.

Something I've been dwelling on tonight is how simple death was to the pre-christian heathens. Brynhild just throws herself on Siegfried's pyre, along with several dozen other examples of people just readily dying for a cause, honor,  love. It was a time when human sacrifice was accepted, and blood payments were a norm, and suicide honorable. There wasn't much reservation or concern about extinguishing your own life.

What sort of mindset and worldview does that come from? We have so many questions in our present day about the continuation of the soul and heaven and our earthly obligations that they just didn't seem to have. Its almost as if there wasn't that much of a separation between life and death, like it was just a door one stepped through into a new room. And of course they had a strong belief in the supernatural and their ancestors and the continued interaction between the dead and the living
..but it wasn't just based on faith or hope, it was a reality. Taken for granted almost as much as breathing.

Anyway. There are several different technical explanations as to what happens to the soul at burial, how and where the soul travels, or even what type of corpse disposal is best, that I think it would be hard to nail down one unifying explanation for all of heathendom.

 
I agree, especially with your analogy of death being like walking into another room. I am also fascinated by the afterlife, I have been since I first started looking into polytheism eight years ago. For me I think the afterlife concept in Heathenism that resonates the most with me is the Holy mountain or the more generalized belief of dying and then dwelling with your ancestors.

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2012, 01:58:47 am »
Quote from: Meritmut;62872
I agree, especially with your analogy of death being like walking into another room. I am also fascinated by the afterlife, I have been since I first started looking into polytheism eight years ago. For me I think the afterlife concept in Heathenism that resonates the most with me is the Holy mountain or the more generalized belief of dying and then dwelling with your ancestors.


The King in the Mountain is still part of local legend. I too find it very cool. :)

I wrote a   blog post recently about how I view the dead. Maybe it'll spark some ideas for you?
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Meritmut

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2012, 03:17:19 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;62873
The King in the Mountain is still part of local legend. I too find it very cool. :)

I wrote a   blog post recently about how I view the dead. Maybe it'll spark some ideas for you?

 
Thank you for the link :) Oh I love reading blogs ^-^ I look forward to it and hopefully it will help spark my own concepts

Meritmut

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2012, 10:10:39 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;62873
The King in the Mountain is still part of local legend. I too find it very cool. :)

I wrote a   blog post recently about how I view the dead. Maybe it'll spark some ideas for you?

 
http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~cfee/MedievalNorthAtlantic/Helgafell/text.html

This was a very interesting article to me. I was particularly interested in the comments on Thor and his tie to the Afterlife. The article mentions how devotees of his cult would pass onto the Afterlife into a sacred hill or mountain. It also mentions Thor's hammer being inscribed onto urns. This belief of dying into hills made me think about the concept in Celtic beliefs of the ancestors being Sidhe and dying into the hills.

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2012, 02:11:01 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;63033
http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~cfee/MedievalNorthAtlantic/Helgafell/text.html

This was a very interesting article to me. I was particularly interested in the comments on Thor and his tie to the Afterlife. The article mentions how devotees of his cult would pass onto the Afterlife into a sacred hill or mountain. It also mentions Thor's hammer being inscribed onto urns. This belief of dying into hills made me think about the concept in Celtic beliefs of the ancestors being Sidhe and dying into the hills.


Thanks for the link. Its interesting that later on the holy hill was seen as specifically connected to Thor. Though grave mounds were connected to Freyr in Sweden. And it was Hulda that lived in a mountain with her retinue of deceased children in Germany. I mean, its definitely a major part of folk belief, and I suppose who reigns over it is a matter of who the person worships?
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Meritmut

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2012, 03:28:21 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;63093
Thanks for the link. Its interesting that later on the holy hill was seen as specifically connected to Thor. Though grave mounds were connected to Freyr in Sweden. And it was Hulda that lived in a mountain with her retinue of deceased children in Germany. I mean, its definitely a major part of folk belief, and I suppose who reigns over it is a matter of who the person worships?

 
I think so, it's the belief that most resonates with myself. I guess its that concept of becoming part of the land around you but I don't think our souls are bound to that one location but the spirit probably prefers one location over the others. I am wanting to do more research into the Germanic tribes and their beliefs. I just ordered the Germania by Tacitus. I haven't been able to find any websites or groups that focus on the Germanic tradition of the Northern beliefs.

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2012, 04:38:00 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;63104
I think so, it's the belief that most resonates with myself. I guess its that concept of becoming part of the land around you but I don't think our souls are bound to that one location but the spirit probably prefers one location over the others. I am wanting to do more research into the Germanic tribes and their beliefs. I just ordered the Germania by Tacitus. I haven't been able to find any websites or groups that focus on the Germanic tradition of the Northern beliefs.


Tacitus is available online. Another book on that site is Grimm's Teutonic Mythology. He attempted to pull all the continental gods, beliefs, and traditions together separate from the Norse.

There isn't a lot of primary info out there on mainland heathenry. You might want to check out Irminsul/Irminenschaft and Asatru Lore if you haven't already. But that's my region of interest, too. I can pm you links and stuff I find if you'll do the same. Or maybe we should start a thread on it?
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Meritmut

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2012, 11:53:26 pm »
Quote from: Juniperberry;63116
Tacitus is available online. Another book on that site is Grimm's Teutonic Mythology. He attempted to pull all the continental gods, beliefs, and traditions together separate from the Norse.

There isn't a lot of primary info out there on mainland heathenry. You might want to check out Irminsul/Irminenschaft and Asatru Lore if you haven't already. But that's my region of interest, too. I can pm you links and stuff I find if you'll do the same. Or maybe we should start a thread on it?

 
I think a thread is a really good idea. We could do it on Continental Germanic and Anglo Saxon polytheism.

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2012, 05:51:22 am »
Quote from: Meritmut;63165
I think a thread is a really good idea. We could do it on Continental Germanic and Anglo Saxon polytheism.

Found this looking up something for the dragon thread: The Return of the Dead: Ghosts, Ancestors, and the Transparent Veil of the Pagan Mind (review).

As for the other thread, I guess whoever has something specific to post first can start it. :>
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 05:52:42 am by Juniperberry »
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

Juniperberry

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Re: Heathen Soul?
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2012, 01:44:15 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;63181
...


So, I've been doing a lot of reading on this. I'll just touch on a few things to start.

Multiple Souls

There was a belief in multiple souls, as seen in shape shifting accounts and dream travels. One part stays connected to the physical body while another could be sent out, like a thread, to appear as a double, an animal, etc. This thread ties in with seidr (magic).

The animal soul fylgja is etymologically related to the placenta and both carry the meaning "that which attends". The fylgja could very well be the womb-soul that has already entered the otherworld (we see a lot of sacred rites involving placenta).

In burial rites, flesh was stripped from bone for burial, sacrificial bodies were bound, the anus, nose and other cavities were plugged to keep the soul from escaping out and terrorizing the village. (Soul thread connected to body that is) . Also, cadavers were often decapitated for this reason.

Women

Women were liminal beings. As life-givers they were, literally, a supernatural gateway between this world and the otherworld. After death and otherworld visitation are most often from females as they more easily transverse the boundaries. (Think Voluspa, Disir, Valkyrie)

Men

Men returning from the dead usually only occurs if they need to scold an obnoxious mourner. Otherwise they lead a pleasurable and sensual afterlife in the hollow mountain,  coming out once a year for the wild hunt to maintain the social mores and ethics as well as fertility. But, they are led by the woman (Perchta et al).

Men also return from the dead if the proper burial rites weren't observed. This is mostly true for criminals (hence horrific burial rites of being nailed down, decapitated, etc). Though it most often occurs for those lost at sea.

Once everyone's soul is pleasantly settled in the afterlife, they rest in peace, the body rots, and everyone lives happily ever after.
The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. [...] The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five year timeframe. 10 years at most.--Elon Musk

I am in the camp that is concerned about super intelligence," [Bill] Gates wrote. "First the machines will do a lot of jobs for us and not be super intelligent. That should be positive if we manage it well. A few decades after that though the intelligence is strong enough to be a concern. I agree with Elon Musk and some others on this and don\'t understand why some people are not concerned."

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