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Author Topic: Sanskrit is derived from Greek, and Greece had the first language, religon  (Read 764 times)

EnderDragonFire

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I just encounter multiple people who held these views over on YouTube! Apparently, there were no Indo-Europeans, they were made up by the Illuminati to downplay Hellenistic importance! That's an actual quote! Also, Hinduism and the Vedas are only 1,000 years old, they are based on Greek religion, and the Greeks had the first religion in human history. Their language was the first too, and is what Sanskrit was derived from. They were the first culture, before the Hebrews, Chinese, Mesopotamian, or Ethiopians.

I am flabbergasted. Some people take nationalism and patriotism to truly absurd levels, denying overwhelming written documentation, linguistic evidence, archaeological evidence, and genetic evidence in favor of their own cultural narrative of supremacy and exceptionalism. 
"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

EnderDragonFire

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Some people take nationalism and patriotism to truly absurd levels, denying overwhelming written documentation, linguistic evidence, archaeological evidence, and genetic evidence in favor of their own cultural narrative of supremacy and exceptionalism.

To be clear, Greece has an amazing culture and history! They have arguably contributed more than almost any other society to Western and global culture. There is no need for Greece to take credit for other people's accomplishments.

A short list of things Greece has *actually* contributed to:
*The Greek Alphabet
*Eastern Rite Christianity
*Euclidean Geometry
*Western Philosophy
*Logic and reasoning
*Art and Architecture
*Classical mythology
*Homer's Epic Poems
*Comedy and Tragedy
*Warfare and seafaring
*Citizenship and statehood
*Democratic government
*Western Morality/Ethics

I could list more, that's just the main points. Greece has a lot to be proud of, there is no need to lie or steal the accomplishments of other people.


"The worshippers of the gods go to them; to the manes go the ancestor-worshippers; to the Deities who preside over the elements go their worshippers; My devotees come to Me." ... "Whichever devotee desires to adore whatever such Deity with faith, in all such votaries I make that particular faith unshakable. Endowed with that faith, a votary performs the worship of that particular deity and obtains the fruits thereof, these being granted by Me alone." - Sri Krishna

RandallS

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I just encounter multiple people who held these views over on YouTube! Apparently, there were no Indo-Europeans, they were made up by the Illuminati to downplay Hellenistic importance!

Lots of people believe all sorts of stuff that doesn't hold up well to examination. Look at the number of people in the US who are sure that the Earth is only about 10,000 years old because that's what they believe the Bible says. Or people who believe Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim. Or that the global warming is not happening at all (not just believe that it is not caused wholly or partially by human activity but that it is not happening at all). Etc.
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ehbowen

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Lots of people believe all sorts of stuff that doesn't hold up well to examination. Look at the number of people in the US who are sure that the Earth is only about 10,000 years old because that's what they believe the Bible says. Or people who believe Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim. Or that the global warming is not happening at all (not just believe that it is not caused wholly or partially by human activity but that it is not happening at all). Etc.

Now you're getting personal... ;)
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Yei

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I just encounter multiple people who held these views over on YouTube! Apparently, there were no Indo-Europeans, they were made up by the Illuminati to downplay Hellenistic importance! That's an actual quote! Also, Hinduism and the Vedas are only 1,000 years old, they are based on Greek religion, and the Greeks had the first religion in human history. Their language was the first too, and is what Sanskrit was derived from. They were the first culture, before the Hebrews, Chinese, Mesopotamian, or Ethiopians.

I am flabbergasted. Some people take nationalism and patriotism to truly absurd levels, denying overwhelming written documentation, linguistic evidence, archaeological evidence, and genetic evidence in favor of their own cultural narrative of supremacy and exceptionalism.

I would say that something similar exists within the entirety of Western historical curriculum, although not quite so extreme. Although less prominent now, older historical texts tended to attribute all sorts of achievements to the Classical civilisations, regardless of the truth of such claims. The 'sins' of these civilisations were either overlooked, or excused. Other peoples' achievements were either ignored, or stolen. Partly, this was because earlier historians did not have all that much to work with, especially before archaeology became a thing. And the further away you went from Greece, the fewer the sources. However, such claims also served to justify European assumptions about other nations, and morally justify imperialism. It was also used to create a European identity, and so early modern scholars 'back-casted' their values onto ancient Greeks and Romans, making them look more like then-modern, rational, Victorian era British then was really the case. At least until Nietzsche pointed out the Greeks loved getting drunk and naked at parties, and Pompeii excavations showed that the Romans were sexual deviants.

I think the Greeks and the Persians provides an excellent example of this. The Persians were described/portrayed as a nation of slaves, while the Greeks were 'freemen' and 'free thinkers.' Reality of course, was different.
1) The average Persian, including women, likely had more legal rights and protections than the average Greek
2) The Greeks were really into slavery
3) The Greeks were not democratic. Only Athens had democracy. Other City-States, including Sparta, were generally authoritarian.
4) Athens was only a democracy for a century or so.
5) It wasn't very good anyway. Athens was incredibly corrupt and poorly managed.

The same pattern can be seen with other issues as well. Things like poetry, literature, and philosophy have traditionally been portrayed as exclusively Greek inventions, when they were not. Even mathematics are sometimes portrayed as primarily Greek, such as Pythagoras Theory, which is much older than Pythagoras. I think the Egyptians used it first. But guess who gets the credit?

Megatherium

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I just encounter multiple people who held these views over on YouTube! Apparently, there were no Indo-Europeans, they were made up by the Illuminati to downplay Hellenistic importance! That's an actual quote! Also, Hinduism and the Vedas are only 1,000 years old, they are based on Greek religion, and the Greeks had the first religion in human history. Their language was the first too, and is what Sanskrit was derived from. They were the first culture, before the Hebrews, Chinese, Mesopotamian, or Ethiopians.

I am flabbergasted. Some people take nationalism and patriotism to truly absurd levels, denying overwhelming written documentation, linguistic evidence, archaeological evidence, and genetic evidence in favor of their own cultural narrative of supremacy and exceptionalism.

"there were no Indo-Europeans, they were made up by the Illuminati to downplay Hellenistic importance!"

Huh. It is almost as if the Illuminati exist simply to provide poorly thought out refutations to criticisms of equally poorly thought out theories.

Personally, I try to agree with every ultra-nationalist I meet. Especially when they are involved in an argument with another ultra-nationalist spouting the opposite opinion. I agree with both. They say "that doesn't make any sense!" I raise my eyebrows and walk away....









....and as I walk, a chilling voice whispers in the wind.....



"That's exactly what the Illuminati want you to think....."
My views are one that speaks to freedom.
-George W. Bush

MadZealot

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That's an actual quote! Also, Hinduism and the Vedas are only 1,000 years old, they are based on Greek religion, and the Greeks had the first religion in human history. Their language was the first too, and is what Sanskrit was derived from. They were the first culture, before the Hebrews, Chinese, Mesopotamian, or Ethiopians.


Aaaaaand I'm reminded of the old dude from the Greek Wedding movie. Except he was funny. And also, put Windex on it. 
I leave the seat up

Jainarayan

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Lots of people believe all sorts of stuff that doesn't hold up well to examination. Look at the number of people in the US who are sure that the Earth is only about 10,000 years old because that's what they believe the Bible says.

To make matters worse, they believe something that's not even there. It's a meme. There's nowhere in the Bible that states the age of the Earth. That was arrived at by the calculations of one Archbishop James Ussher, Primate of Ireland in the 1600s. He calculated the ages of the patriarchs, which are stated in the Bible, from Adam forward to Jesus. Ussher came up with a date for creation being at October 22, 4004 BC, in the evening: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night: and the evening and the morning were the first day." - Genesis 1:5. People have been believing this ever since.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

ehbowen

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To make matters worse, they believe something that's not even there. It's a meme. There's nowhere in the Bible that states the age of the Earth. That was arrived at by the calculations of one Archbishop James Ussher, Primate of Ireland in the 1600s. He calculated the ages of the patriarchs, which are stated in the Bible, from Adam forward to Jesus. Ussher came up with a date for creation being at October 22, 4004 BC, in the evening: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night: and the evening and the morning were the first day." - Genesis 1:5. People have been believing this ever since.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology

The MLA standards were not in effect when the Bible, and especially Genesis, was written. How many people in this nation will be quick to state, "I'm descended from George Washington" or similar if there is any traceable connection, even if it be 1/128 or smaller? There are a number of people who compare the genealogies of Jesus as given in Matthew and Luke and use that as an excuse to reject the larger message of Scripture.

Matthew, writing from a Jewish perspective, traces the royal lineage from David through the kings and breaks it down into 3 groups of 14 generations. I personally think that he condensed this genealogy by omitting some more obscure links and that the neat 42-generation structure was an aid to memorization in the years before computers and the printing press.

Luke, On The Other Hand, was (IMO) tracing the actual human lineage of Jesus backward to Adam. Since Joseph was a foster father, I believe he was using Mary's ancestry ("as was supposed") and that, writing from a Greek perspective, he was careful to include any known links...resulting in much more detail in the last previous few centuries. Of course, once you get back into the royal and patriarchal epochs, there wasn't anything to go on other than the existing Scriptural record.

Of course, I do in fact believe that the earth was created 10,000 years ago. I'm not saying that it's 10,000 years old, but it was created 10,000 years ago. Also 10,000 seconds ago. Also 10 seconds ago. Also .001 seconds ago. Also 10E-12 seconds ago. And, at every creation, something new is being rolled in, albeit perhaps at some distant corner of Reality which we cannot perceive at the present time. When the interval goes to zero...things start to get interesting.

Quote
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone.

Cue the appropriate music....
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Jainarayan

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...and that the neat 42-generation structure was an aid to memorization in the years before computers and the printing press.

That's exactly the reason that Vedic mantras and slokas (verses) are as metrical and rhythmic as they are, and why Sanskrit is so highly inflected. Sanskrit is a constructed language. Not artificial like Klingon or Quenya, but constructed and structured from an existing vernacular. The word Saṃskṛtam, the actual name of the language means "refined" or "well-formed". It is structured so as to make memorization possible. There are seemingly countless ways of saying "I bow", depending on whom one is addressing. Two of them are "aham namaami" and "namaamyaham". They mean exactly the same thing, but one has 5 syllables, the other has 4. Very important to keep meter and rhythm for memorization.

Quote
Of course, I do in fact believe that the earth was created 10,000 years ago. I'm not saying that it's 10,000 years old, but it was created 10,000 years ago. Also 10,000 seconds ago. Also 10 seconds ago. Also .001 seconds ago. Also 10E-12 seconds ago. And, at every creation, something new is being rolled in, albeit perhaps at some distant corner of Reality which we cannot perceive at the present time. When the interval goes to zero...things start to get interesting.

Cue the appropriate music....

The Ship of Theseus: as it's renewed and parts replaced, is it the same ship? Or Earth?  Interesting.
śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ
Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu - Skandopanishad
 

ehbowen

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Re: Sanskrit is derived from Greek, and Greece had the first language, religon
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2017, 05:45:24 pm »
That's exactly the reason that Vedic mantras and slokas (verses) are as metrical and rhythmic as they are, and why Sanskrit is so highly inflected. Sanskrit is a constructed language. Not artificial like Klingon or Quenya, but constructed and structured from an existing vernacular. The word Saṃskṛtam, the actual name of the language means "refined" or "well-formed". It is structured so as to make memorization possible. There are seemingly countless ways of saying "I bow", depending on whom one is addressing. Two of them are "aham namaami" and "namaamyaham". They mean exactly the same thing, but one has 5 syllables, the other has 4. Very important to keep meter and rhythm for memorization.

Fascinating. [/Spock]

The Ship of Theseus: as it's renewed and parts replaced, is it the same ship? Or Earth?  Interesting.

My own current thought is that the physical is the "echo" of the spiritual. The physical is and has been changing, or perhaps more precisely put, developing and being defined. Some passages of Scripture (e.g. Genesis 29:24-25...Jacob honestly couldn't tell the difference between the woman he loved and her older sister after living as a member of the family with them for seven years?) defy understanding unless you consider the possibility that the physical world as a whole was less "defined" and more easily influenced by the spiritual and supernatural in those earlier centuries. So I believe that the physical can and does change...but that the spiritual reality behind it runs all the way down (like turtles!).
--------Eric H. Bowen
Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to have been an Earth-shattering KABOOM!

Tannhauser

I am (was?) Christian, but 98% of my spiritual experiences were of the ancient Greek gods. The rest were divided up between Norse mythology and ancient Rome.

Best wishes,
Tannhauser

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