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Author Topic: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism  (Read 5952 times)

dragonfaerie

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2012, 12:12:55 am »
Quote from: Meritmut;45385
Does anyone have a reliable source for information on the Tuatha Dé, Information like roles, siblings, wives, children etc.


The Timeless Myths site has a substantial section on the various Celtic pantheons, as well as other cultures. The Tuatha Dé stuff is here.

There aren't a lot of links back to primary source material. However, from my passing dealings with primary source materials, it's very well researched.

The Celtic Myth Podshow is another good source for the stories themselves, and they do have some of the research notes in the various episode show notes.

Meritmut

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 04:02:11 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;45399
Thanks for all your help :)  

 
Does anyone know who Senchán Forpeist is? I have a site listing him as a consort of Brigid but can't find anything on him.

Rhyshadow

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 04:50:57 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;53944
Does anyone know who Senchán Forpeist is? I have a site listing him as a consort of Brigid but can't find anything on him.

Excerpt from Myth, Legend and Romance: An Encyclopedia of the Irish Folk Tradition by Dr. Daithi O'Hogain

"Seanchán (earlier Senchán)  Poet who flourished towards the end of the 6th and into the first half of the 7th century AD.  The designation Seanchán was probably a nickname, since it means 'man of lore' and would describe his profession.  It is usually accompanied by the enigmatic sobriquet Torpeist"

The entry on him in the encyclopedia is 3 full pages.

The only mention of a Brighid is one small blurb; she's referred to as his wife.  Considering it was a fairly common name at the time, I doubt it refers to either the Goddess or the Saint.

------------

Dr O'Hogain is my "go to guy" for anything on pre-Christian to early Christian tales and history.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 04:52:07 pm by Rhyshadow »

Meritmut

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2012, 02:20:45 pm »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;53949
Excerpt from Myth, Legend and Romance: An Encyclopedia of the Irish Folk Tradition by Dr. Daithi O'Hogain

"Seanchán (earlier Senchán)  Poet who flourished towards the end of the 6th and into the first half of the 7th century AD.  The designation Seanchán was probably a nickname, since it means 'man of lore' and would describe his profession.  It is usually accompanied by the enigmatic sobriquet Torpeist"

The entry on him in the encyclopedia is 3 full pages.

The only mention of a Brighid is one small blurb; she's referred to as his wife.  Considering it was a fairly common name at the time, I doubt it refers to either the Goddess or the Saint.

 
Thanks so much! I thought it was odd because I had never heard of him before. Is her husband/consort Bres then in Irish mythology? And son Ruadan?

Rhyshadow

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2012, 02:41:51 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;54089
Thanks so much! I thought it was odd because I had never heard of him before. Is her husband/consort Bres then in Irish mythology? And son Ruadan?

 
Correct - and the death of Ruadan and her subsequent wailing over his body is the origin of 'keening'

Meritmut

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2012, 11:31:12 am »
Quote from: Rhyshadow;54090
Correct - and the death of Ruadan and her subsequent wailing over his body is the origin of 'keening'

I am sorry to be asking so many questions, but I am trying to plot out a somewhat cohesive Irish pantheon. In another section I see Brigid by Bres is said to be the mother of three Gods Brian, Iuchar, Iucharba. And in other areas their mother is said to be Danu but I have seen on other areas that Danu isn't a ancient Goddess but a modern creation.

Also she is said to be the mother of Brian, Iuchar & Iucharba by the God Tuireann. But I haven't been able to find a source for this.

http://www.shee-eire.com/Magic&Mythology/Gods&Goddess/Celtic/Goddess/Brigit/Factsheet1.htm
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 11:37:23 am by Meritmut »

Meritmut

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2012, 12:29:21 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;54187
...........................

 
Would this be accurate? From what I have been researching it seems pretty accurate.

http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/data/danufamily2.gif

Aster Breo

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Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2012, 01:55:20 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;54190
Would this be accurate? From what I have been researching it seems pretty accurate.


It really depends on which scholars you read.  
 
To be frank, I think it's pretty much impossible to accurately plot the relationships of the Irish gods.  Especially Brighid.  She only appears once or twice (depending on whether certain references to the name "Brig" or "Bríd" are really about the same goddess) in the currently extant lore. So much has been lost to time, and most of what has survived was filtered through Christian monks whose interests were probably more in aligning the stories with the Church's teaching than with preserving them for posterity.

Plus, there's no reason to assume that the gods are confined to the kind of relationships humans have.  Maybe Brighid and Danu are somehow BOTH the mothers of those three.

I understand the drive to try to make sense of the mythology.  When I first connected with Brighid, I read everything I could find about Her and tried to understand how She fit into the stories and relationships.  But I very quickly ran up against the fact that we actually have extremely little ancient lore about Brighid as goddess. And the tiny bit we do have is problematic on many levels.

My personal "solution" -- if it can be called a solution -- was to accept that there is much we don't know and probably never will, and to focus on building my own UPG (which has often turned out to be SPG) about Brigid, based on the little we do know.  For me,Her marital status is inconsequential compared to Her roles as sun goddess, fire goddess, hearth goddess, water goddess (wells, springs, streams, lakes), and Her associations with healing, poetry/learning, smithcraft, and social justice. For example.

But if Her relationships are that important to you, the one caution I'd give is to read EVERYTHING you can find about Her before trying to fit Her into a chart.  There is a pretty comprehensive resource list in the Cill SIG of Brighid materials.  And, if you search the current and the archived forums here, you'll find a number of very interesting threads about ideas and epiphanies regarding Brighid, as well as some really good links to very insightful conversations that took place on other sites.

I know this probably isn't the feedback you wanted, and I'm sorry about that.  But it's what I've learned over the course of many years as a Brigid dedicant.

Just my $0.02, and worth what you paid for it.  ;)

~ Aster
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Meritmut

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2012, 05:22:05 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;54197
It really depends on which scholars you read.  
 
To be frank, I think it's pretty much impossible to accurately plot the relationships of the Irish gods.  Especially Brighid.  She only appears once or twice (depending on whether certain references to the name "Brig" or "Bríd" are really about the same goddess) in the currently extant lore. So much has been lost to time, and most of what has survived was filtered through Christian monks whose interests were probably more in aligning the stories with the Church's teaching than with preserving them for posterity.

Plus, there's no reason to assume that the gods are confined to the kind of relationships humans have.  Maybe Brighid and Danu are somehow BOTH the mothers of those three.

I understand the drive to try to make sense of the mythology.  When I first connected with Brighid, I read everything I could find about Her and tried to understand how She fit into the stories and relationships.  But I very quickly ran up against the fact that we actually have extremely little ancient lore about Brighid as goddess. And the tiny bit we do have is problematic on many levels.

My personal "solution" -- if it can be called a solution -- was to accept that there is much we don't know and probably never will, and to focus on building my own UPG (which has often turned out to be SPG) about Brigid, based on the little we do know.  For me,Her marital status is inconsequential compared to Her roles as sun goddess, fire goddess, hearth goddess, water goddess (wells, springs, streams, lakes), and Her associations with healing, poetry/learning, smithcraft, and social justice. For example.

But if Her relationships are that important to you, the one caution I'd give is to read EVERYTHING you can find about Her before trying to fit Her into a chart.  There is a pretty comprehensive resource list in the Cill SIG of Brighid materials.  And, if you search the current and the archived forums here, you'll find a number of very interesting threads about ideas and epiphanies regarding Brighid, as well as some really good links to very insightful conversations that took place on other sites.

I know this probably isn't the feedback you wanted, and I'm sorry about that.  But it's what I've learned over the course of many years as a Brigid dedicant.

Just my $0.02, and worth what you paid for it.  ;)

~ Aster

 
I appreciate all the advice I am given, I am trying to be more open minded towards UPG, it's hard coming from a strict Recon approach :) But I love Ireland and the Irish pantheon it gives me a sense of peace no other religion has. I am not too concerned with a strict pantheon, it must be this way..I am trying to explain this to my boyfriend who is also interested in the Irish Pantheon, so I was looking for a relatively accurate site with information on the deities sphere of influence actually.

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2012, 06:10:14 pm »
Quote from: Meritmut;54367
I appreciate all the advice I am given, I am trying to be more open minded towards UPG, it's hard coming from a strict Recon approach :) But I love Ireland and the Irish pantheon it gives me a sense of peace no other religion has. I am not too concerned with a strict pantheon, it must be this way..I am trying to explain this to my boyfriend who is also interested in the Irish Pantheon, so I was looking for a relatively accurate site with information on the deities sphere of influence actually.

 
If you haven't already, you should definitely check out the Mary Jones website. It's well respected and includes an encyclopedia of Celtic mythology (including deities), as well as tons of Celtic lit texts.

And I was just there and noticed a new article that looks like it would be VERY interesting to you: "The Lebor Gabála Érenn at a Glance: an Overview of the 11th Century Irish Book of Invasions" -- which includes what appears to be a chart of relationships!

~ Aster
"The status is not quo."  ~ Dr. Horrible

Rhyshadow

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2012, 07:52:39 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;54370
If you haven't already, you should definitely check out the Mary Jones website. It's well respected and includes an encyclopedia of Celtic mythology (including deities), as well as tons of Celtic lit texts.

And I was just there and noticed a new article that looks like it would be VERY interesting to you: "The Lebor Gabála Érenn at a Glance: an Overview of the 11th Century Irish Book of Invasions" -- which includes what appears to be a chart of relationships!

~ Aster

 
Another place to get "lost in" is the translations of the old stories at CELT

Meritmut

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2012, 10:47:30 pm »
Quote from: Aster Breo;54370
If you haven't already, you should definitely check out the Mary Jones website. It's well respected and includes an encyclopedia of Celtic mythology (including deities), as well as tons of Celtic lit texts.

And I was just there and noticed a new article that looks like it would be VERY interesting to you: "The Lebor Gabála Érenn at a Glance: an Overview of the 11th Century Irish Book of Invasions" -- which includes what appears to be a chart of relationships!

~ Aster

 
Thank you both! A chart of relationships!!! AWESOME lol. I am excited I really want to explore this Irish Pantheon. Thank you all for the help, you guys have great resources and open my eyes to expanding my spirituality past the academic books ^^

Sharysa

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Re: Newbie, Questions on Irish Reconstructionism
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2012, 12:15:42 am »
Quote from: Meritmut;54415
Thank you both! A chart of relationships!!! AWESOME lol. I am excited I really want to explore this Irish Pantheon. Thank you all for the help, you guys have great resources and open my eyes to expanding my spirituality past the academic books ^^

 
...A relationship chart for the Irish pantheon?

I NEED THAT YESTERDAY. *starts reading*
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