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Author Topic: Locating the Mothers  (Read 4530 times)

Lana288

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Locating the Mothers
« on: April 21, 2014, 11:03:26 am »
Hello! I'm new, and have lots of questions about the Baltic gods. Here's one of the less inane ones.

I read somewhere recently that there were approximately seventy or so Latvian mothers (Mate- Zeme Mate, Meza Mate, Juras Mate, ect), and I've been trying to make a list of them. Unfortunately, after I found the first thirty (or so) it got hard- and a little confusing when I saw goddesses I didn't think of as among the Mates referred to as such.

So I was wondering if anyone had anything about the Mothers? How many there were, or what their names are, or whether the word Mate is an honorific given to certain goddesses- that sort of thing?

Thanks for your help!

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 12:06:54 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;145858
Hello! I'm new, and have lots of questions about the Baltic gods. Here's one of the less inane ones.

I read somewhere recently that there were approximately seventy or so Latvian mothers (Mate- Zeme Mate, Meza Mate, Juras Mate, ect), and I've been trying to make a list of them. Unfortunately, after I found the first thirty (or so) it got hard- and a little confusing when I saw goddesses I didn't think of as among the Mates referred to as such.

So I was wondering if anyone had anything about the Mothers? How many there were, or what their names are, or whether the word Mate is an honorific given to certain goddesses- that sort of thing?

Thanks for your help!

I have seen arguments both ways, that they're each a distinct goddess, that they're titles, I've even seen some of them given to Mara as honorifics. It's likely that's a popular construction that we'll never fully understand.

Can I ask what draws you to them?
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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Lana288

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 08:37:56 pm »
Quote from: Jack;145867
I have seen arguments both ways, that they're each a distinct goddess, that they're titles, I've even seen some of them given to Mara as honorifics. It's likely that's a popular construction that we'll never fully understand.

Can I ask what draws you to them?

 
Certainly! What's happening is that- due to the limited resources on Latvian Mythos- I'm writing down as much on the Gods as I can, so that the information is 'on call'. Since the Mothers are such a large part of the pantheon, I figured I'd work on recording as many of Their names as possible. This is actually more fun than it sounds.

Perhaps you might know of some of Them? I've seen your blog before and noticed you work with Mara (I really hope that doesn't sound creepy), and I have heard that some- the Dievturi especially- believe that the Mates are all divisions of Her. Since a lot of what I'm doing is name-hunting, anything supplied from your experience could be a big help.

I do know the names of thirty or so of Them. If you'd like, I can post the list I've created- I'd love to share what I've collected.

Jack

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 01:07:38 am »
Quote from: Germandragon;145904
Certainly! What's happening is that- due to the limited resources on Latvian Mythos- I'm writing down as much on the Gods as I can, so that the information is 'on call'. Since the Mothers are such a large part of the pantheon, I figured I'd work on recording as many of Their names as possible. This is actually more fun than it sounds.


I am definitely familiar with how thin on the ground such resources can be, especially in English. (In my case, it's Evernote where my giant pile of notes ends up but the result is the same, I think.)

Quote
Perhaps you might know of some of Them? I've seen your blog before and noticed you work with Mara (I really hope that doesn't sound creepy), and I have heard that some- the Dievturi especially- believe that the Mates are all divisions of Her. Since a lot of what I'm doing is name-hunting, anything supplied from your experience could be a big help.


I don't believe all of the mothers are Mara, but she has answered to some of them as titles. I think it makes sense that they are titles for a variety of deities and spirits.

Quote
I do know the names of thirty or so of Them. If you'd like, I can post the list I've created- I'd love to share what I've collected.

 
I'd love to see what you've got!
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

savveir

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 02:22:00 am »
Quote from: Germandragon;145904
Certainly! What's happening is that- due to the limited resources on Latvian Mythos- I'm writing down as much on the Gods as I can, so that the information is 'on call'. Since the Mothers are such a large part of the pantheon, I figured I'd work on recording as many of Their names as possible. This is actually more fun than it sounds.

Perhaps you might know of some of Them? I've seen your blog before and noticed you work with Mara (I really hope that doesn't sound creepy), and I have heard that some- the Dievturi especially- believe that the Mates are all divisions of Her. Since a lot of what I'm doing is name-hunting, anything supplied from your experience could be a big help.

I do know the names of thirty or so of Them. If you'd like, I can post the list I've created- I'd love to share what I've collected.

 
This isn't an area I know much about, but I would love to learn more and check out your list :)
"I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it."
-Lewis Carroll

Lana288

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 09:27:21 pm »
Quote from: savvy;145925
This isn't an area I know much about, but I would love to learn more and check out your list :)

 
Sounds good! Here are the deities, their names, and their functions (so far as I know);

Meza Mate- Mother of forest. Also known as (according to the Encyclopedia Britannica) Krumu Mate- Mother of bushes, Lazdu Mate- Mother of Hazels, Lapu Mate- Mother of Leaves, Ziedu Mate- Mother of blossoms, and Senu Mate- Mother of mushrooms. There's also a god that seems to work with her- Meza Virs, or forest Father. (I got this last bit from Encyclopedia Mythica, so make of it what you will.)

Veja Mate- Mother of Wind. (She watched over birds, and assists Meza Mate with the forest.)

Zeme Mate- Mother of Earth. She has seventy sisters- I suspect that those are the other Mothers. (UPG, thus far.) According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, she is the same goddess as  Velu Mate- mother of Ghosts. Other names for her include Kapu Mate (mother of graveyards), Smilsu Mate (mother of sands) and Kari Mate (tomb mother).

Lauka Mate- mother of plough-land.

Ogu Mate- Berry mother.

Juras Mate- Sea mother. (I personally suspect she may be Perkons daughter. -The only reason I think this, though, is because Jurate in the Lithuanian pantheon is Perkunas's daughter. It depends on how much the myths overlap, I guess...)

Sniega Mate- Snow mother.

Joda Mate- Devil's mother.

Mera Mate- Plague's mother. (Could be a title for Laima, who I've heard is a goddess of fate as well as the plague.)

Uguns Mate- Fire Mother. Goddess of the hearth.

Pirts Mate- Bathhouse mother. (Maybe a goddess of healing? I know the bathhouse had healing properties in Latvian mythos.)

Rijas Mate- Threshing house mother.

Udens Mate- Mother of water.

Upes Mate- Mother of rivers.

Bangu Mate- Mother of waves

Lietus Mate- Mother of Rain

Miglas Mate- Mother of fog

Miega Mate- Mother of sleep

Tirgus Mate- Mother of Market

Mieza Mate- Barley Mother

Linu Mate- Flax mother

Kara Mate- War mother

Puku Mate- Mother of Flowers (It could be an epitaph of Zeme Mate- but that's UPG)

Meslu Mate- Manure Mother.

Darza Mate- Garden Mother

Cela Mate- Road Mother

Lopu Mate- Cattle Mother

And possibly Jam Mate- Jani's mother. Not certain on that, though. I can't find the resource I got it from, which is annoying beyond belief. She appears on Wikipedia though. :ashamed:

That's the list thus far. I hope it's informative, even if it's a bit long!

savveir

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 10:36:03 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;145973
Sounds good! Here are the deities, their names, and their functions (so far as I know);


 
oooh, this is great. I will have to start trying to research.
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Jack

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 11:50:52 pm »
Quote from: Germandragon;145973
Sounds good! Here are the deities, their names, and their functions (so far as I know);
...
That's the list thus far. I hope it's informative, even if it's a bit long!

 
Looks like a good list! I made a fairly basic spreadsheet at one point with a couple of different references, and I think there were about seventy but some of them were... yeah, kind of weird.

My UPG syncretizes Mara with Zemes Mate, seeing her as both an earth goddess and a cthonic goddess, so your association of Zemes Mate with the others you've listed seems reasonable to me. Kari Mate is not one I have on my list. Do you remember where you found it? This looks like a possible source.

I'd not seen "Mera Mate" translated as "Plague Mother" - I have it down as Mother of Measures, which makes sense with Laima as a fate goddess. (That's from Faces of the Goddess.) I did a bit of googling and found it translated as Plague Mother in the Routledge Dictionary of Gods and Goddesses, Devils and Demons. (It's on archive.org, but the book's not in the public domain, so I don't know if I should link to it?)

Puku Mate is another one I don't have, so if you can remember where that one came from I'd appreciate it too. She's also is mentioned on the URL I linked above.
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
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Jack

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 05:03:20 am »
Quote from: Jack;145991
Looks like a good list! I made a fairly basic spreadsheet at one point with a couple of different references, and I think there were about seventy but some of them were... yeah, kind of weird.

 
Cleaned it up and added the ones you gave me, if you want to take a look: http://bit.ly/1jKiIna
Hail Mara, Lady of Good Things!
"The only way to cope with something deadly serious is to try to treat it a little lightly." -Madeleine L'Engle

Lana288

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Re: Locating the Mothers
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 06:46:38 pm »
Quote from: Jack;146020
Cleaned it up and added the ones you gave me, if you want to take a look: http://bit.ly/1jKiIna

Thanks so much! I plan on going through it later- about half of them I either didn't know or hadn't heard with the title Mate.

Weird? Definitely. I keep having to remind myself that "Different culture, different people, different ways of thinking." Fortunately, I seem to be adapting pretty well.

Strangely enough, http://www.folklore.ee/rl/pubte/ee/bif/bif1/kokare.html  is the same one I found both Kari Mate and Puku Mate at, and (also strangely) I recently went tearing through a physical copy of "Gods and Goddesses, Devils and Demons". -It's where I found Ogu Mate and Veja mate.

Mera Mate- mother of Measures? I can see that, especially if she is a facet of Laima. I'll have to record that too and see if I can't start building a 'case' for sameness between the two.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 06:48:46 pm by Lana288 »

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