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Author Topic: FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011  (Read 2285 times)

veggiewolf

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FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« on: August 09, 2011, 12:02:12 pm »
FlameKeeping Chat Log
Tuesday, 9 August 2011, 10:00 AM Eastern (US) - logged and posted by veggiewolf

FierFlye says, "so tell me about your flame, April"
You say, "which one?"
You say, "well, in all seriousness..."
Guest1 has arrived.
You say, "HI!"
FierFlye says, "a guest!"
Guest1 says, "Me, as a guest again lo"
You say, "Devo?"
Guest1 says, "Yup"
You say, "Yay!"
FierFlye says, "hi Devo!"
Guest1 says, "I haven't gotten a name or anything yet lol"
You say, "So, we're about to start talking about The Flame"
Guest1 says, "I r lazy"
Guest1 says, "Yay :D"
FierFlye says, "Veggie is just about to start"
You say, "Yep!"
Guest1 says, "Cool"
You say, "so, my flaws: impatience, pessimism, procrastination, fits of overwhelming emotion"
Guest1 says, "I can relate to the overwhelming emotion"
You say, "the last includes the red emotions which, while beneficial to helping me come out of depression, are not condusive to flame work"
DarkMidnight has arrived.
You say, "conducive? I hate spelling that word."
DarkMidnight says, "And hello to you too, darlings! Miss me?"
veggiewolf hugs Sharon.
DarkMidnight cuddles Veggie
You say, "my virtues: i genuinely want to help people, patience with genuine ignorance, empathy..."
FierFlye says, "hi Sharon, guest is Devo"
You say, "ummmm..."
veggiewolf ponders.
You say, "virtues are, of course, more difficult to list."
You say, "oh, loyalty...as long as I am not stabbed in the back."
You say, "who's next for flaws and virtues?"
DarkMidnight says, "Ste sends his regards but as he is back in work, he can't be here to join in. He wants me to update him when he phones me later on tonight"
HeartShadow says, "I'll go"
HeartShadow says, "My biggest issue/flaw, I'd say, is chronic spoon shortage - I spend them on everyone and everything BUT myself on a regular basis."
You say, "he can read the log"
DarkMidnight says, "Where's the fun in that?"
HeartShadow says, "it's that world-saving white-knight complex - if I can just make things better, I'll be "worthy". of what I haven't figured out yet"
veggiewolf nods.
DarkMidnight says, "Shad, that is both a virtue AND a flaw"
HeartShadow says, "less major flaws would be chronic disorganization and a serious yarn addiction."
HeartShadow says, "well - wanting to help is a virtue. Doing so to the point that I drain myself ON PURPOSE because I believe I am worthless except for what I can give to others - bad"
DarkMidnight says, "Exactly"
You say, "why do you do that?"
Guest1 says, "I read a blog about that- the nice guy complex. my s.o. has it to some degree."
HeartShadow says, "depression/low self-worth. I do it EVEN AS it pisses me off"
DarkMidnight says, "Because of a overwelming belief that everyone deserves it more that you do?"
HeartShadow says, "I do try really hard to not use it as passive-aggressive manipulation, though. which is what I used to do"
You say, "ok, what about virtues?"
HeartShadow says, "part is that other people deserve it more than me - part of it is that I can SEE the whole of stuff and see that I'm just a tiny little part. and I forget that I'm tiny but I'm as important as the other tiny parts"
DarkMidnight says, "You forget or you ignore it?"
HeartShadow says, "virtues. eep. I think I'm good at getting my ideas across - at turning complex ideas into readable pieces"
HeartShadow says, "forget. it really is forget"
veggiewolf raises an eyebrow.
HeartShadow says, "other virtues .. hrm. I'm playful and entertaining!"
HeartShadow says, "ignore would mean I knew it and pushed it aside. When I'm in that place, I DO NOT believe it"
You say, "fair enough."
Guest1 says, "btw, Helmsman says "Hi". I guess he's heading out of the house and can't make it this week"
"ah, ok
Guest1 says, "sorry for interjecting... he just told me"
You say, "we'll miss him"
HeartShadow says, "okeydoke. no prob"
DarkMidnight says, "You ignore the whole idea that you are just as important as anyone else"
You say, "No, I think she *knows* but does not *believe*"
HeartShadow says, "CANNOT believe. it's the depression thing"
Book of Answers> Book of Answers growls at the monkey
Guest1 says, "I think it's always easier to give into the negative aspects when it comes to that sort of thing."
You say, "and also why virtues are harder to list"
Guest1 says, "yes"
DarkMidnight says, "Of course it is. It's so much more believable than the good stuff"
Guest1 says, "I think that's part of our cultural training, though"
Guest1 says, "Society wants you to be humble, to doubt yourself."
Guest1 says, "If you walk around thinking you're the best thing since sliced bread, society calls you an egotistical jerk"
HeartShadow says, "ESPECIALLY women. there's definitely a gender-based double standard in that"
Guest1 says, "yes"
DarkMidnight says, "Always has been"
veggiewolf nods.
You say, "Fier's turn!"
Guest1 says, "I'm not saying it's an excuse, but it definitely is something to keep in mind when examining flaws andvitures, I think"
You say, "not an excuse, but a reason"
HeartShadow says, "I think it's one of the reasons why DOING it is so important. so we actually see what we have instead of only focusing on the things that piss us off"
Guest1 says, "lol yes."
Guest1 says, "you need light and dark to be whole"
You say, "I need to do that more"
DarkMidnight says, "Who doesn't?!"
FierFlye says, "sorry, back"
You say, "optimists"
DarkMidnight says, "Egotists"
HeartShadow says, "no, just because you believe in the good of situations doens't mean you see the good in yourself"
FierFlye says, "okay, faults, I am lazy, short tempered, impatient, unmotivated"
Guest1 says, "I would say that that isn't necessarily true either"
HeartShadow says, "and egotists need to see their faults. :P"
FierFlye says, "i rarely have the energy to do things"
You say, "but, Fier, you do them."
FierFlye says, "sometimes. sometimes I just sleep"
You say, "and is not having energy a flaw?"
Guest1 says, "If you want to get things done, it is"
DarkMidnight says, "If it is, I'm well and truly stuffed!"
FierFlye says, "it's a problem"
You say, "but is it internal or external?"
Guest1 says, "I think that varies person to person"
You say, "i'd see not having energy as something that cannot be controlled..."
You say, "?"
HeartShadow says, "I think if it's not having energy due to depression, it's just a *thing*"
Guest1 says, "As to whether the lack of energy is considered internal or external. As in, is it an internal thing causing it (health, your mind/mental state) or external things causing it- a household that wears you down, etc."
HeartShadow says, "if you don't have energy 'cause you spend it stupid, it's a flaw"
Guest1 says, "sorry if I misunderstood- that's how i took it"
You say, "no, that's true"
FierFlye says, "maybe, is it inherent?"
DarkMidnight says, "brb"
DarkMidnight says, "sorry about that"
You say, "is it, Fier?"
You say, "or is it caused by outside sources?"
FierFlye says, "it is inherent."
FierFlye says, "but, maybe there are things I can do to lessen it?"
You say, "so, it is the not pushing through and/or not dealing with it that is the flaw?"
FierFlye says, "yes"
You say, "ah, ok."
FierFlye says, "the giving in"
DarkMidnight says, "Ah, I'm with you now"
You say, "the giving in when there is a choice"
You say, "'cause sometimes, IMO, there isn't"
FierFlye says, "certainly."
You say, "virtues?"
FierFlye says, "i am creative, loyal, i try to stand up for my beliefs"
Guest1 says, "those are all good things to have"
veggiewolf nods.
FierFlye says, "i have good morals, and a moral character"
You say, "how do you define 'moral'?"
veggiewolf asks out of curiosity.
FierFlye says, "ack. well, in this instance I mean I obey the laws of the country and state, and I don't push others aside just to make things better for myself"
You say, "just curious. :)"
You say, "so, Devo?"
Guest1 says, "Flaws- I have mood swings. I go btwn being egotistical (when I'm in my comfort zone) and being entirely socially awkward and withdrawn (which will occur when I'm in a group of people I don't know well)"
You say, "I do that too, Devo."
Guest1 says, "I have problems with patience, and anger. I 'want too much too quickly'"
Guest1 says, "And when I don't get as far as I would have liked, I get frustrated with myself"
Guest1 says, "I think that covers the most basic ones... I have quite a few lol. I can think of more if needed."
Guest1 says, "oh yeah, here is a flaw- I eat out too much. I can be ruled by food, if I'm not careful"
veggiewolf drools.
DarkMidnight wipes Veggie's chin of drool
You say, "thank you."
Guest1 says, "as for virtues... I fear they read like a resume lol. I'm loyal, hard working."
HeartShadow says, "man, I forget to eat on a regular basis"
Guest1 says, "Yeah?"
Guest1 says, "I should be hundreds upon hundreds of pounds, based off of how often I think of food."
Guest1 says, "I'm thorough, good memory. I can juggle and handle a lot of things/stress all at once- which can be a flaw when it totally wipes me out."
Guest1 says, "Whether it's easier to find the flaws or virtues depends on whether I'm in the 'ego' mood or the 'self loathing' mood."
Guest1 says, "I have been exploring both- upon Set's demand. So I think I'm in touch with both sides.. but I can't say I'm completely balanced in both yet."
You say, "Sharon's turn!!!"
veggiewolf bounces.
Guest1 says, ":D"
DarkMidnight says, "Eek. I have more flaws than I can count"
Guest1 says, ":("
DarkMidnight says, "Ok, majors. I give more than I've got, all the time. I can never ask for help. I am far too proud and stubborn for my own good."
DarkMidnight says, "I hate admitting that I'm ill and that I can't do things that I used to be able to do. I ALWAYS put everyone else first, no matter what."
You say, "why?"
DarkMidnight says, "I don't want to admit this one, but I really don't take care of myself properly, especially when I'm ill."
DarkMidnight says, "Why? Because I believe that I am at the bottom of the ladder when it comes to importance. I always have done."
veggiewolf hugs Sharon.
Guest1 says, "I wonder why it is that so many people believe that?"
Guest1 says, "That they are the leasti mportant person in the universe."
Guest1 says, "It makes me sad when I see it."
DarkMidnight says, "I care about other peoples feelings far more than my own. I don't even discuss how bad things are with me now. Not even with Steve and he's my best friend."
HeartShadow says, "I think it's instilled young. it makes a good control on the masses if they believe they're worthless"
HeartShadow says, "there's a LOT of social pressure in it"
Guest1 says, "So feeding back into the social thing I mentioned earlier"
DarkMidnight says, "I don't want to upset or bother anyone. I know it's stupid, but still......"
You say, "I also think it is a female thing - we're meant to care for others."
You say, "silly, but ingrained, like Devo said."
HeartShadow says, "well, and admitting weakness SUCKS. it just flat-out does"
DarkMidnight says, "Very much so"
FierFlye says, "i wonder how the world would function if everyone had a little better opinion of themselves"
Guest1 says, "I think it'd function a lot better. I mean, we don't need egomaniacs, but I think confidence is important"
HeartShadow says, "why do you think I'm working on this? ;)"
Guest1 says, "Makes you wanna get up and do things, strive to be more- etc. Those are things the world needs more of."
FierFlye says, "confidence is important. a healthy view of self WITHOUT the "i deserve everything" attitude"
Guest1 says, "yes"
FierFlye says, "some people have the attitude that they are more important than everyone else."
You say, "well, those people need help of a different sort."
You say, "what about virtues, Sharon?"
DarkMidnight says, " I care. I'm kind, I'm always there for my friends and family, no matter what. I am always honest. I have an incredibly good memory. Do I have to admit that I can sing quite well?"
You say, "Yes!"
DarkMidnight says, "Damn"
Guest1 says, "lol"
DarkMidnight says, "Ok. I have a nice singing voice and I can remember the words of a song just by hearing it once or twice."
Guest1 says, "crazy"
You say, "i'll have to tell Ana we have another person for singing charms :)"
DarkMidnight says, "I also have a good sense of humour and I am very patient. I also almost NEVER lose my temper."
Guest1 says, "You're like the oposite of most of us lol. We lose our temper, you keep yours"
DarkMidnight says, "I've not truly lost my temper in over 18 years now."
FierFlye is impressed
You say, "is that because you hold it in, though?"
DarkMidnight says, "Not really hold it it. I say what I think before it builds too far"
You say, "wow."
Guest1 says, "lucky bastard lol"
DarkMidnight says, "It's really hard sometimes, but I have a truly vicious temper when it goes and I hate it. I hate losing control that much"
You say, "I tend to hold it in and then it grows and eats me."
DarkMidnight says, "I can't let it go that far. I don't have the energy anymore"
You say, "so, do we all agree that virtues are harder to ID than flaws?"
HeartShadow says, "oh gods yes"
HeartShadow says, "I think, also, our flaws *affect* us more clearly"
Guest1 says, "I don't even let it eat me... it's like... a fireball. There is nothing, then it's OMGIMSCREAMINGATYOU, and next thing you know, it's gone. :"
HeartShadow says, "I mean, I lose my temper, you SEE it. Keeping one's temper's harder to see. y'know?"
Guest1 says, "Yes, I would agree with that, Shad."
DarkMidnight nods
You say, "so, how do we shift...and should we?"
veggiewolf apologizes for defaulting to discussion leader/trainer mode.
HeartShadow says, "I'd say we should move a step. Not go the entire flip to "omg I'm the GREATEST!" but a bit more towards acceptance of being good TOO"
FierFlye says, "no apology necessary, someone has to do it"
HeartShadow says, "which, quite frankly, is harder than going whole hog"
DarkMidnight says, "We can't do much positive if all our energy is being used on feeling negative about ourselves, but doing something about it is so much harder than it would/should be"
You say, "are there baby steps that we can take?"
HeartShadow says, "maybe spend some time every week very deliberately doing something we are good at and enjoy"
DarkMidnight says, "Maybe try to think of something good about yourself every day. Almost a pat on the back if you will"
HeartShadow says, "something that's at least partially selfish"
HeartShadow says, "something of ourselves for ourselves"
DarkMidnight says, "Exactly"
You say, "you know...it would be interesting for that to be our homework and to discuss it at next week's chat..."
veggiewolf grins.
You say, "so, do we all have time to get to the next set of questions...or should we pick those up next week? (is concerned about the working people)"
DarkMidnight says, "I doubt that I'll be in for the next 3 weeks though."
veggiewolf hugs Sharon while whining about missing her.
DarkMidnight says, "I'm taking Ste for his bronchoscopy next Tuesday and then I'm on holiday for 2 weeks"
Guest1 says, "I have time for hte next set, but if others don't, I understand."
Guest1 says, "sorry I was afk- boss talking lol."
You say, "i do too. Fier?"
FierFlye says, "i have a bit more time"
Guest1 says, "But I think it's a good idea to set aside some time each week to do something for yourself- even if it's small."
DarkMidnight says, "I'll actually try to do the work though."
You say, "Sharon, do you have time now for the next set or do you have things to do?"
HeartShadow says, "I think focusing on this and then seeing the results are a good idea"
You say, "thus hath the guru spoken!"
You say, "so, for homework - do something for yourself that is of yourself once a week, take time each day to focus on one of your virtues..."
DarkMidnight says, "I'm in"
Guest1 says, "works for me."
HeartShadow already has a plan. knitting! :D
You say, "anything else we should add?"
HeartShadow runs
FierFlye says, "sounds good"
You say, "that is NOT knitting, Shad."
HeartShadow says, "but it's for me! and I'm good at it!"
You say, "but you already do it a lot."
HeartShadow says, "and honestly, right now it IS what I need to do"
HeartShadow says, "not lately. :("
You say, "ok"
Guest1 says, "all these rules! lol"
You say, "well, defaulting to knitting each week is something that happens naturally."
FierFlye says, "what will everyone else be doing?"
veggiewolf looks at Shad.
You say, "swimming"
You say, "I like it and am good at it"
You say, "and i never take the time for it"
HeartShadow says, "I'll try to do more. but I haven't been taking the time for myself TO knit lately"
Guest1 says, "I will probably try to dance... or meditate. My health doesn't allow for it very much- but I can give it a shot, see if I can hold out lol."
Bluebird has arrived.
You say, "shhhh - it is a SPY!"
FierFlye says, "just in time for homework!"
Bluebird says, "Like I don't have enough homework!"
You say, "what will you do, Fier and Sharon?"
FierFlye says, "i think I will be sewing, or archery"
HeartShadow says, "actually, no, y'all are right. I'll spend some time reading"
Guest1 says, "reading is like homework for me anymore... i have so many books I Need to get through x.x"
You say, "I just downloaded three more to my Kindle"
veggiewolf looks at Sharon.
DarkMidnight says, "This week? I'm going to practice playing bass guitar. I've never got time so I'll make sure that I do before I go away. Then I have 2 whole weeks to read, swim, and relax. I might even go horse riding on the beach again whilst I'm there"
FierFlye says, "nice"
DarkMidnight says, "I'm not really allowed to ride much anymore but I can do it on the odd occasion"
You say, "how cool!"
You say, "here's a question - should we be posting chat logs in the SIG?"
DarkMidnight says, "That's up to you guys."
FierFlye says, "unless anyone has an objection, I think it is a good idea"
Bluebird says, "As a fledgling FlameKeeper, I vote yes."
You say, "I can do it...or Fier, since you don't have your puppet going also"
Guest1 says, "I'm fine with it"
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

comW

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FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2011, 01:05:43 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;11701
FlameKeeping Chat Log
Tuesday, 9 August 2011, 10:00 AM Eastern (US) - logged and posted by veggiewolf

 

Intresting. Incidentally I'm never again trying to delete an entire chat log on my phones
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 01:29:10 pm by Fier »
Steve - ComW

try and find me in the MUX. It does happen

Fier

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Re: FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 01:30:12 pm »
Quote from: comW;11710
Intresting. Incidentally I'm never again trying to delete an entire chat log on my phones

 
Done!

Hee, yes, I've had the same problem with my tablet.

comW

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Re: FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 01:59:03 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;11715
Done!

Hee, yes, I've had the same problem with my tablet.

 
thanks fier
Steve - ComW

try and find me in the MUX. It does happen

veggiewolf

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Re: FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 04:44:27 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;11701
...


And, here's the homework from the chat session, to be reported on at our next chat on the 16th of August!

- Take a moment every day to actively focus on one of your virtues
- Do something for yourself that is also of yourself at least once this week.

Next week, we'll continue with the questions raised by The Flame essay.
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

Fier

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Re: FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 04:46:45 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;11762

- Do something for yourself that is also of yourself at least once this week.

 
Could you explain what you mean by 'of yourself'?

veggiewolf

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Re: FlameKeeping Chat Log - 9Aug2011
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 04:52:16 pm »
Quote from: FierFlye;11764
Could you explain what you mean by 'of yourself'?


Sure - ideally, do something for yourself that you also enjoy and that enriches your Flame.  F'ex, I love to swim but never do it anymore.  This week I am going to make the time to do it at least once.
Fluid Morality - my spiritual blog
Eating Monsters - my mental health blog

"Religion does not define a deity- it defines the human approach and interpretation of deity." - Juni
"I hate magical thinking in my magic." - Darkhawk
"...a baseball club; a soccer unkindness; a hockey murder; a football team..." - Cecil, Welcome to Night Vale

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