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Author Topic: Seidr and astral body?  (Read 4132 times)

zamotcr

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Seidr and astral body?
« on: November 07, 2013, 11:54:06 am »
Hi!

I recently read some articles of Diana Paxson about Seidr and she mentions a lot about "Astral body" and "Astral Plane". Others authors writing about Shamanic Journeys to the 9 worlds also write about astral body or astral plane.

Even Diana mention that Midgard as an "inner Midgard", being this the Astral Plane.
Some call this body "The fetch" or "Hama" (in Anglo-Saxon).

Almost everyone talking about spiritual journey in heathenry mentions the astral body :/

If this "plane" exists, it's besides the 9 realms? Or it's just a part of Midgard?

bobthesane

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 09:08:55 pm »
Quote from: zamotcr;128641
Hi!

I recently read some articles of Diana Paxson about Seidr and she mentions a lot about "Astral body" and "Astral Plane". Others authors writing about Shamanic Journeys to the 9 worlds also write about astral body or astral plane.

Even Diana mention that Midgard as an "inner Midgard", being this the Astral Plane.
Some call this body "The fetch" or "Hama" (in Anglo-Saxon).

Almost everyone talking about spiritual journey in heathenry mentions the astral body :/

If this "plane" exists, it's besides the 9 realms? Or it's just a part of Midgard?

Uuuuh... okay. First off, when Paxson says stuff like that, understand she IS NOT talking about anything that would be recognizable to our heathen ancestors. Like, at all...

Second off, most of those 'other authors' you mention are pulling stuff out of their butts as well. What we do have in the lore of seidh and spae workers, didn't mention these women leaving their bodies, but bringing outside spirits INTO their bodies and acting as an oracle. Acting as a bridge between the seen and unseen.

zamotcr

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 11:05:58 pm »
Quote from: bobthesane;128713
Uuuuh... okay. First off, when Paxson says stuff like that, understand she IS NOT talking about anything that would be recognizable to our heathen ancestors. Like, at all...

Second off, most of those 'other authors' you mention are pulling stuff out of their butts as well. What we do have in the lore of seidh and spae workers, didn't mention these women leaving their bodies, but bringing outside spirits INTO their bodies and acting as an oracle. Acting as a bridge between the seen and unseen.


Thanks, yeah, it was weird to me, if that "astral plane" were real, it would be the 10th realm lol

I think she is talking with her occultist background and not with the lore. So, yup, she's talking with her own perspective.

I know almost nothing about heathenism, but I did sense something weird with that.

This makes me curious, when people have OOB experiences, according to the lore, are they just imaging it all, or so they "see" or visit another "world" or "plane"? I mean, a lot of people claim to visit the so called "astral world", where did they really went according to the lore?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 11:07:09 pm by zamotcr »

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 02:03:50 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;128723
when people have OOB experiences, according to the lore, are they just imaging it all, or so they "see" or visit another "world" or "plane"? I mean, a lot of people claim to visit the so called "astral world"


One thing that struck me recently was how the Yggdrasil has Alfheim, but folklore also had it that elves were always somehow present in Midgard. Same with how there are afterlife worlds, but ancestral spirits are also going to be looking after you and interfering with your life by sending signs or something. So, my conjecture is that the nine worlds aren't separated but overlap and intersect. You can attune to this or that world, for example through dreams, so--if you want to syncretize Theosophy and Heathen mysticism--the astral would be the branches of the Yggdrasil where it's neither here nor there. For example, if you see a ghost, then you're on a branch between Midgard and Helheim. All of this is totally my UPG: for practices that do involve otherworlds and travels through them, I tend more towards fairy lore than heathenry.
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hlewagastir

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 10:51:39 am »
Quote from: bobthesane;128713
Second off, most of those 'other authors' you mention are pulling stuff out of their butts as well. What we do have in the lore of seidh and spae workers, didn't mention these women leaving their bodies, but bringing outside spirits INTO their bodies and acting as an oracle. Acting as a bridge between the seen and unseen.

That is right - and unfortunately often overlooked. However, we do have several instances of metaphysical (OOB) journeys, so they seem to have been a thing.
There are a couple of things that are characteristic of them, and the second somewhat sets them aside from shamanism:
1) They are always connected to the body, which is often asleep or in trance while, and what happens to the body directly affects the mind that is "sent out", journeying.
2) They never actually leave THIS world. I can´t think of any OOB journeys to otherworlds, realms of death - Odin might do it, but he is a god.


Quote from: triple_entendre;128738
One thing that struck me recently was how the Yggdrasil has Alfheim, but folklore also had it that elves were always somehow present in Midgard. Same with how there are afterlife worlds, but ancestral spirits are also going to be looking after you and interfering with your life by sending signs or something. So, my conjecture is that the nine worlds aren't separated but overlap and intersect. You can attune to this or that world, for example through dreams, so--if you want to syncretize Theosophy and Heathen mysticism--the astral would be the branches of the Yggdrasil where it's neither here nor there. For example, if you see a ghost, then you're on a branch between Midgard and Helheim. All of this is totally my UPG: for practices that do involve otherworlds and travels through them, I tend more towards fairy lore than heathenry.

While I think that your UPG is cool, and generally agree that there are overlaps between this and other worlds, I also consider the "9 worlds" as actual, distinctly defined places a medieval invention - tied into Snorri´s wish to categorize and systematize pre-Christian mythology.
From my POW it is more fruitful to think of it as this world and otherworlds, which does not have to be sharply defined by anything but their connection to this world, and the particular religious function that they are given.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 10:57:05 am by hlewagastir »

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 03:59:56 pm »
Quote from: hlewagastir;128956
I also consider the "9 worlds" as actual, distinctly defined places a medieval invention - tied into Snorri´s wish to categorize and systematize pre-Christian mythology.

 
Seems likely enough, since categorizing and systematizing cosmology was rather a Thing in medieval Christianity.

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Seidr

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 11:36:39 am »
Quote from: zamotcr;128723
This makes me curious, when people have OOB experiences, according to the lore, are they just imaging it all, or so they "see" or visit another "world" or "plane"? I mean, a lot of people claim to visit the so called "astral world", where did they really went according to the lore?

Read a little about qauntom physics. Mixing majic and science helps.

are they just imaging it all - No....
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 12:15:50 pm by SunflowerP »

Jack

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 11:59:11 pm »
Quote from: Seidr;198634
Read a little about qauntom physics. Mixing majic and science helps.

are they just imaging it all - No....
Could you please exposit on this a little further? Which parts of quantum physics explain OBEs?

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Re: Seidr and astral body?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 09:46:25 pm »
Quote from: zamotcr;128641
Hi!
I recently read some articles of Diana Paxson about Seidr and she mentions a lot about "Astral body" and "Astral Plane". Others authors writing about Shamanic Journeys to the 9 worlds also write about astral body or astral plane.

This "Astral body" stuff is certainly modern lingo, and best to be avoided in modern Heathenry (in my opinion).

However ... Heathenry believed in a multivalent soul.  The soul had different parts or aspects.  It's complicated, and after 4 years of being Heathen I still have to wrap my head around all the pieces.

The Fylgja, or fetch, was a kind of outer form of the soul, or perhaps some kind of companion spirit loosely connected to the soul.  Those skilled in magic could detach it from the soul and it could travel for purposes of gaining magic or gathering information, or even fighting in battle.  The fetch often takes the form of an animal.

So, yeah, I agree with Bob that talk of "Astral bodies" is new age speak designed to sell books to modern neopagans. But there is a type of soul magic that our ancestors believed which doesn't get nearly enough press.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 09:47:19 pm by hraefngar »

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