Author Topic: Few questions about Asatru and others (Read 10649 times)

Northpagan · « **on:** October 22, 2013, 09:52:14 am »

Hi!
I am new member here, i joined becouse i have read this forum a while and i like it very much! Also i have many questions:whis:. I have been intrested about religion all my life and i am very intrested about paganism. I have questions about eclectic Wicca and Paganism. I feel that my way is Asatru, becouse i live in Skandinavia and that feels good to me. My question is, could it possible to be "eclectic pagan" becouse, i like nature and i feel asatru the right way, i have read Edda and other information. But i also intrested other rituals and gods, which maybe not included to Asatru. Is this problem? I have read that in Asatru you can keep altar and do rituals and other, but can i take few things about other pagan religions? Little messy text, i hope that you get the point! And sorry about my bad English! Any information about Asatru and Eclectic Paganism is welcome!

veggiewolf · « **Reply #1 on:** October 22, 2013, 02:01:56 pm »

Quote from: Northpagan;126417

Hi!
I am new member here, i joined becouse i have read this forum a while and i like it very much! Also i have many questions:whis:. I have been intrested about religion all my life and i am very intrested about paganism. I have questions about eclectic Wicca and Paganism. I feel that my way is Asatru, becouse i live in Skandinavia and that feels good to me. My question is, could it possible to be "eclectic pagan" becouse, i like nature and i feel asatru the right way, i have read Edda and other information. But i also intrested other rituals and gods, which maybe not included to Asatru. Is this problem? I have read that in Asatru you can keep altar and do rituals and other, but can i take few things about other pagan religions? Little messy text, i hope that you get the point! And sorry about my bad English! Any information about Asatru and Eclectic Paganism is welcome!

Hi there!

I'm not an Asatruar or a Heathen, but I do know you can find lots of information and helpful people in our Asatru and Heathenry SIG. It has a great resources thread and lots of other information.

Asatru Lore is also a great resource, and it is a sister site to The Cauldron.

yennork · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2013, 04:42:39 pm »

Quote from: veggiewolf;126449

Hi there!

I'm not an Asatruar or a Heathen, but I do know you can find lots of information and helpful people in our Asatru and Heathenry SIG. It has a great resources thread and lots of other information.

Asatru Lore is also a great resource, and it is a sister site to The Cauldron.

Asatru Lore is a great site for information, but don't post there until you've lurkad and read old posts a loooong time. It's a place for hard-core recons, so don't mention "eclectic" or "wiccatru". But, as said, for information it's really, really good.

Aiwelin · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2013, 06:39:18 pm »

Quote from: Northpagan;126417

Hi!
I am new member here, i joined becouse i have read this forum a while and i like it very much! Also i have many questions:whis:. I have been intrested about religion all my life and i am very intrested about paganism. I have questions about eclectic Wicca and Paganism. I feel that my way is Asatru, becouse i live in Skandinavia and that feels good to me. My question is, could it possible to be "eclectic pagan" becouse, i like nature and i feel asatru the right way, i have read Edda and other information. But i also intrested other rituals and gods, which maybe not included to Asatru. Is this problem? I have read that in Asatru you can keep altar and do rituals and other, but can i take few things about other pagan religions? Little messy text, i hope that you get the point! And sorry about my bad English! Any information about Asatru and Eclectic Paganism is welcome!

Hello and welcome!

I personally think it's alright for aspects of Norse practice and other religions practices to co-exist in one's spiritual life - I identify as both a Heathen and a Druid. If you're interested in interacting with the general Asatru community, however, be aware that they are one of the less receptive Pagan religions to outside cultural influences. This doesn't mean you can't use practices from other cultures or religions, but be prepared to talk intelligently about your choices if you're talking about them to other Asatruar.

Sola Stone · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2013, 07:09:02 pm »

Quote from: Northpagan;126417

Hi!
I am new member here, i joined becouse i have read this forum a while and i like it very much! Also i have many questions:whis:. I have been intrested about religion all my life and i am very intrested about paganism. I have questions about eclectic Wicca and Paganism. I feel that my way is Asatru, becouse i live in Skandinavia and that feels good to me. My question is, could it possible to be "eclectic pagan" becouse, i like nature and i feel asatru the right way, i have read Edda and other information. But i also intrested other rituals and gods, which maybe not included to Asatru. Is this problem? I have read that in Asatru you can keep altar and do rituals and other, but can i take few things about other pagan religions? Little messy text, i hope that you get the point! And sorry about my bad English! Any information about Asatru and Eclectic Paganism is welcome!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you asking if you can be eclectic and practice Asatru at the same time? If you are, I think it would probably be best if you didn't use the label "Asatru" for your practice. As Aiwelin said, some people are a little strict when it comes to these things. It's perfectly fine to include other gods/rituals/beliefs in your practice (It's yours after all. You should do what feels right to you.), but just for the sake of avoiding arguments, I'd call it something else. (ex. Norse Paganism, Heathenism, Heathenry, or as you've mentioned, Eclectic Paganism)

Hyacinth Belle · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2013, 09:50:22 pm »

Quote from: Sola Stone;126484

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you asking if you can be eclectic and practice Asatru at the same time? If you are, I think it would probably be best if you didn't use the label "Asatru" for your practice.

I agree. Being eclectic is good and fine if that's what works for you, but communicating what you do will go better if you say something like "Eclectic Pagan with Norse Leanings," as cumbersome as that is.

(There's a good English word for you too, "cumbersome." hehe.)

Asatru refers to a specific religion, and if you're combining it with other things then it's not really Asatru anymore.

Juni · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2013, 09:09:53 pm »

Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;126500

Asatru refers to a specific religion, and if you're combining it with other things then it's not really Asatru anymore.

I'm going to preface this by saying I know approximately diddly-squat about Asatru/heathenism. I'm coming at this more from a recon perspective, than a specifically Norse one, so please give me a swift kick if this is completely irrelevant, but:

This perspective really confuses me, and it's one that I've seen repeatedly among recons; that if one is a recon, one cannot be anything else as well.

The majority of pagan religions I've seen represented on TC boil down to "do the thing like this". While belief is important, doing the thing and doing it in the right way for path X is what a lot of the practice comes down to. So, provided one is able to "do the thing" properly when approaching Norse gods, and then "does the other thing" properly when approaching Wiccan gods, where's the issue? If there's not a conflict of oaths or virtues or what have you, why can't someone walk two paths simultaneously?

I could be misinterpreting the OP; obviously, if one wants to "do the thing" and doesn't do it the right way for a particular path, using the path's name is disingenuous at best. Approaching the Norse gods away from a Wiccan context is one of the reasons Asatru happened in the first place, no?

Sola Stone · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2013, 11:02:01 pm »

Quote from: Juni;126696

I'm going to preface this by saying I know approximately diddly-squat about Asatru/heathenism. I'm coming at this more from a recon perspective, than a specifically Norse one, so please give me a swift kick if this is completely irrelevant, but:

This perspective really confuses me, and it's one that I've seen repeatedly among recons; that if one is a recon, one cannot be anything else as well.

The majority of pagan religions I've seen represented on TC boil down to "do the thing like this". While belief is important, doing the thing and doing it in the right way for path X is what a lot of the practice comes down to. So, provided one is able to "do the thing" properly when approaching Norse gods, and then "does the other thing" properly when approaching Wiccan gods, where's the issue? If there's not a conflict of oaths or virtues or what have you, why can't someone walk two paths simultaneously?

I could be misinterpreting the OP; obviously, if one wants to "do the thing" and doesn't do it the right way for a particular path, using the path's name is disingenuous at best. Approaching the Norse gods away from a Wiccan context is one of the reasons Asatru happened in the first place, no?

Well, I'm not a recon, but I believe that the issues boil down to "It's not traditional." and "We are not Wiccan, damn it!".

In the first case, the thinking is that "If our ancestors didn't honor god X, then we shouldn't either. If we do anything other than what our ancestors (probably) did, then we'd be doing it wrong!" So, "doing the thing" "the right way", means "do only the thing".

In the second case, that distinction you mentioned, between Wicca and Asatru, is important. There is the mentality that anything that looks even remotely like Wicca should be kept far away from Asatru and is generally frowned upon. From my understanding, the situation is like this: We are group X. They are group Y. X used to be part of Y, but we (X) left to be our own group. Despite that, X is not Y. Sometimes X is confused with Y. We don't like that. X is completely different from Y. Y needs to be kept as separate from X as possible to minimize the chance of X being confused with Y.

Have you encountered the term "Wiccatru"? It's usually used derogatorily.

That being said, I can see your point. There really shouldn't be a problem with following two paths simultaneously, if that's what works for you. I, sometimes, think we worry far too much about what to call our respective practices, when we should be worrying about the practices themselves.:whis:

Sophia C · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2013, 02:59:07 am »

Quote from: Juni;126696

This perspective really confuses me, and it's one that I've seen repeatedly among recons; that if one is a recon, one cannot be anything else as well.

I think this is about two different things: labels, and outlook. On the label side, I entirely understand that if a community follows a religion - Asatru for example - then they don't want outsiders to be confused when things that are not Asatru are called Asatru. I personally think it's fine to say "I'm Asatru, and I also practice some other, more eclectic things", but I do understand the issue of potential confusion for others.

On the other hand, the 'one worldview only' thing confuses me - a lot. I am basically a Celtic reconstructionist. Some recons would be shocked to hear that I did anything else as well, because of the concept that it's not possible to hold more than one worldview. I disagree - especially when it comes to the Celts, who were massively influenced by the Norse and other traders/invaders/neighbours, and who were probably *way* more eclectic than we recon-ish types are willing to admit. Likewise, I have some eclectic stuff in my practice, but my overall worldview is Gaelic/Celtic recon, and I know what is and what is not CR.

I think we reify cultures and their religions/practices far too much in the recon communities. 'Celtic' (or 'Gaelic') and 'Norse' were never one single, unified thing. Being culturally pure enough was never on my ancestors' minds - that something that recons are obsessed with now, because of where the recon approach comes from, but it doesn't have to be something I'm personally obsessed with. (I do not say this much in public, though, for fear of being told I'm not recon enough...!)

Hyacinth Belle · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2013, 07:42:48 pm »

Quote from: Naomi J;126718

On the label side, I entirely understand that if a community follows a religion - Asatru for example - then they don't want outsiders to be confused when things that are not Asatru are called Asatru. I personally think it's fine to say "I'm Asatru, and I also practice some other, more eclectic things", but I do understand the issue of potential confusion for others.

For me, this. And the audience for this thread is a newbie. So I think the label thing is very important to communicate correctly and be prepared to discuss / explain one's chosen labels.

Crohm · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2013, 08:53:41 pm »

Quote from: Juni;127216

I could be misinterpreting the OP; obviously, if one wants to "do the thing" and doesn't do it the right way for a particular path, using the path's name is disingenuous at best. Approaching the Norse gods away from a Wiccan context is one of the reasons Asatru happened in the first place, no? .

No, Asatru formed in the United States at least by a few persons who saw what was going on in the North Lands and wanted it to be represented here as well.

As for the titles. I may be the odd man out, but Asatru and Odinism in particular are folk centric. It is heterodox as opposed to orthodox. Which is to say, it is right practice and not right belief. Which is why Asatruar and Odinists can have opinions about science or the origins of the universe that can be molded by new discoveries without a problem with their own belief structure.

I agree with what has been said that eclecticism can work for some. I have no issues with eclectics. As has also been said, Asatru and Odinism have particular beliefs. One can not say "I am Asatruar, with mixins of belief in God X and Goddess Y of a faith half way around the world from pre-christian northern europe" and not be hypocritical.

I can respect an honest whatever title person, if they are sincere and show themself to be level headed. When it intrudes upon my own ancestral beliefs, i.e., Odinism, I would desire the same respect in return and not think they would use the terms that mean what they mean and stretch it beyond its bounds to fit their personal world view.

Best of luck in your search, Northpagan.

Crohm · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2013, 09:21:01 pm »

Quote from: Crohm;127221

It is heterodox as opposed to orthodox.

I have no clue how one goes about editing their post after the fact. I was thinking one thing and typing another.. ha.

I had meant to use orthopraxy vs orthodoxy. Which was right belief vs right action. One could believe their faith says not to eat pork, but if they did all the same there is a breakdown between the two.

hlewagastir · « **Reply #12 on:** October 28, 2013, 05:16:00 am »

Quote from: Crohm;127221

No, Asatru formed in the United States at least by a few persons who saw what was going on in the North Lands and wanted it to be represented here as well.

What was going on in the North Lands? Or are you hinting to movements in Iceland or England?

Quote

One can not say "I am Asatruar, with mixins of belief in God X and Goddess Y of a faith half way around the world from pre-christian northern europe" and not be hypocritical.

It depends on the religious structures and the agreements of particular groups... If including a sacrifice to Christ or some Shinto deity is meaningful and satisfy the structure of the religion, I see no problem. As long as due is paid to the Norse gods too - otherwise it could hardly be called Asatru.

Quote from: Northpagan;126417

Hi!
I have been intrested about religion all my life and i am very intrested about paganism. I have questions about eclectic Wicca and Paganism. I feel that my way is Asatru, becouse i live in Skandinavia and that feels good to me. My question is, could it possible to be "eclectic pagan" becouse, i like nature and i feel asatru the right way, i have read Edda and other information. But i also intrested other rituals and gods, which maybe not included to Asatru. Is this problem? I have read that in Asatru you can keep altar and do rituals and other, but can i take few things about other pagan religions?

I would say go for it. Just remember that Asatru is a (at times vague) religion which still has a number of core concepts. Such as the sacrifice to Norse gods, polytheism, referring back pre-Christian, Norse religion, traditions and structures (which depends, but there are some general consensuses).

I suggest that you go read a good deal about Asatru and Viking age religion (check out the source thread in the Asatru SIG), pin down the essentials, and then see where there are room for the inclusion of outside material - without upsetting/compromising the essentials.
That would IMO be one way of having a meaningful, eclectic religion - build on an Asatru foundation (!).

Hyacinth Belle · « **Reply #13 on:** October 28, 2013, 05:57:43 pm »

Quote from: Crohm;127221

As for the titles. I may be the odd man out, but Asatru and Odinism in particular are folk centric.

If by "folk centric" you mean based on "ancestral" practice, then sure. If by "folk centric" you mean only people of certain ancestry can practice, then no. That would be racism.

Just to clarify.

Crohm · « **Reply #14 on:** October 28, 2013, 08:37:00 pm »

Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;127349

If by "folk centric" you mean based on "ancestral" practice, then sure. If by "folk centric" you mean only people of certain ancestry can practice, then no. That would be racism.

Just to clarify.

To clarify.. folk centric, means those of my fellow northern european ancestry. I can tolerate all the different viewpoints I see here without being mean or cruel to them. I do not foment hate or racial epitaphs. However, I will stand for the beliefs of my people and those of my line, to the present day of my children who are heathens in the making.

If you wish to be Asatru, they are more open to universalism. Odinism, as its rebirth has it and has since the 70s is a path for those of northern european ancestry. Just as the Red Road is for indians, Shinto for Japanese or Judaism for Jews.

I have no interest in having a dispute if my beliefs offend you, as I do not wish drama. There was an opinion asked and as I have some experience in the matter, of some sixteen years now, I spoke up.

I wish you well, Hyacinth Belle, and peace.

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