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Author Topic: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics  (Read 2315 times)

Dragonoake

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A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« on: September 20, 2013, 08:33:37 am »
Physicists have discovered a jewel-like geometric object that dramatically simplifies calculations of particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality.

Quanta Magazine

RandallS

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2013, 08:25:53 am »
Quote from: Dragonoake;122428
Physicists have discovered a jewel-like geometric object that dramatically simplifies calculations of particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality.

Quanta Magazine

Very interesting work here. Although it is worth noting that this new way of calculating has yet to be shown to correspond to reality (the particles that exist as opposed to the idealized versions used to develop this formulation). How to check for this is known, but will take time.
Randall
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Dragonoake

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 02:38:25 am »
Quote from: RandallS;122499
Very interesting work here. Although it is worth noting that this new way of calculating has yet to be shown to correspond to reality (the particles that exist as opposed to the idealized versions used to develop this formulation). How to check for this is known, but will take time.

 
I keep thinking about Einstein's statement that matter, energy, time, and space were all were all inter-related, which I have always taken as be analogous to the ice - water - steam relationship.
If this idea holds water, the Theory of Everything could be a single fundamental equation; and everything else, including time and space, could be derived from it

RandallS

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 08:29:38 am »
Quote from: Dragonoake;122688
If this idea holds water, the Theory of Everything could be a single fundamental equation; and everything else, including time and space, could be derived from it

That's certainly what many physicists hope for -- even if it ends up being a number of related equations instead of just one.
Randall
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Altair

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2013, 01:35:05 pm »
Quote from: Dragonoake;122428
Physicists have discovered a jewel-like geometric object that dramatically simplifies calculations of particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality.

Quanta Magazine

Awesome, literally.

Being a guy who loves to have science and myth crosspollinate, upon reading about a jewel at the heart of everything, my mind jumped to what I (and many others) consider one of the most gorgeous of mythic metaphors, Indra's net. the Wikipedia entry gives Francis Harold Cook's description of it:

Quote
Far away in the heavenly abode of the great god Indra, there is a wonderful net which has been hung by some cunning artificer in such a manner that it stretches out infinitely in all directions. In accordance with the extravagant tastes of deities, the artificer has hung a single glittering jewel in each "eye" of the net, and since the net itself is infinite in dimension, the jewels are infinite in number. There hang the jewels, glittering "like" stars in the first magnitude, a wonderful sight to behold. If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number. Not only that, but each of the jewels reflected in this one jewel is also reflecting all the other jewels, so that there is an infinite reflecting process occurring.

And then being a science-fiction guy, I read the part about the "master amplituhedron" (fantabulous name!) and couldn't help but conjure all sorts of cool plotlines that could spin out of such an object...something like what STAR TREK: VOYAGER did with the omega molecule in the episode "The Omega Directive."

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Omega_Directive_(episode)

OK, dialing down the geekhood now.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 01:37:02 pm by Altair »
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Nyktipolos

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2013, 03:04:26 pm »
Quote from: Altair;122761

And then being a science-fiction guy, I read the part about the "master amplituhedron" (fantabulous name!) and couldn't help but conjure all sorts of cool plotlines that could spin out of such an object...something like what STAR TREK: VOYAGER did with the omega molecule in the episode "The Omega Directive."

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Omega_Directive_(episode)

OK, dialing down the geekhood now.

 
For some reason, it really reminded me of the Peacock God of Feri mythos, and how he has all the worlds in the eyes of his feathers.
"Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
On the Rivers

Altair

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2013, 01:43:16 pm »
Quote from: Dragonoake;122428
Physicists have discovered a jewel-like geometric object that dramatically simplifies calculations of particle interactions and challenges the notion that space and time are fundamental components of reality.

Quanta Magazine


I ended up using this as a jumping-off point for musings on the relationship between science and myth, in my Blog of Mythic Proportions:

http://www.cfcooper.net/the-jewel-at-the-heart-of-everything
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Dragonoake

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 04:08:48 pm »
Quote from: Altair;122761
If we now arbitrarily select one of these jewels for inspection and look closely at it, we will discover that in its polished surface there are reflected all the other jewels in the net, infinite in number.


Reminds me of a hologram: If you were to take a hologram of a dollar bill, and cut out Washington's left eye, you would get a lower resolution hologram of the entire bill

Dragonoake

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 04:15:28 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;122706
That's certainly what many physicists hope for -- even if it ends up being a number of related equations instead of just one.

 
What I'm thinking of is a network of 2-dimensional equilateral triangles where the average distance between any two points is the Planck Length
Any one triangle is flat and rigid, locally satisfying the requirements of Quantum Space; but a group of triangles is flexible, satisfying the spacial requirements of Relativity on larger scales

Dragonoake

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2013, 06:17:28 pm »
Quote from: Dragonoake;123759
What I'm thinking of is a network of 2-dimensional equilateral triangles where the average distance between any two points is the Planck Length


Thinking a little further on this, if we assume this 2-dimensional Brane to be the fundamental building block of the universe, its definition could become a simple mathematical constant in all your other equasions

RandallS

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 10:17:15 pm »
Quote from: Dragonoake;123955
Thinking a little further on this, if we assume this 2-dimensional Brane to be the fundamental building block of the universe, its definition could become a simple mathematical constant in all your other equasions

That's certainly a possibility. Although I'll admit I'm having more trouble that usual understanding exactly what the is being expressed here: is it an actual object or simply a mathematical object that can be used for calculations. A video is much harder for me to follow than an actual paper on stuff like this.
Randall
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Dragonoake

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2013, 03:11:29 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;123982
is it an actual object or simply a mathematical object that can be used for calculations.

 
To answer that question, we first need to define what an actual object is; and at this level, I suspect the difference between the two is pretty fuzzy.

For example, I've heard a muon described as "a squiggle in space"; is this a physical description of an actual object, or is it just a mathematical concept expressed in terms Joe Average can understand?

Altair

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2013, 04:05:20 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;123982
That's certainly a possibility. Although I'll admit I'm having more trouble that usual understanding exactly what the is being expressed here: is it an actual object or simply a mathematical object that can be used for calculations.


I read it as being the latter, a mathematical object for calculations. Though Dragonoake's point about the fuzzy difference between real and conceptual at this level is well taken. If the behavior of particles can be modeled from an underlying geometry, doesn't that suggest that something possessing that geometry might exist as a root cause of the behavior?

(I'm SO out of my depth here...)
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

RandallS

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Re: A Jewel at the Heart of Quantum Physics
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2013, 05:53:18 pm »
Quote from: Altair;124093
If the behavior of particles can be modeled from an underlying geometry, doesn't that suggest that something possessing that geometry might exist as a root cause of the behavior?

Yes, it does suggest that, although a it certainly isn't necessary. (For example, a "map" does not have to resemble the actual terrain to be useful.)
Randall
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