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Author Topic: The Bathhouse at Midnight: An Historical Survey of Magic and Divination in Russia  (Read 5960 times)

RandallS

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Title: The Bathhouse at Midnight: An Historical Survey of Magic and Divination in Russia
Author(s): W. F. Ryan
Publisher: Pennsylvania State University Press
Publication Date: September 1999
ISBN: 0271019670
ISBN-13: 978-0271019673
Current Price and More Info from Amazon

[size=+1]Description:[/size]
The title of this book refers to the classic time and place for magic, witchcraft, and divination in Russia. The Bathhouse at Midnight, by one of the world's foremost experts on the subject, surveys all forms of magic, both learned and popular, in Russia from the fifth to the eighteenth century. While no book on the subject could be exhaustive, The Bathhouse at Midnight does describe and assess all the literary sources of magic, witchcraft, astrology, alchemy, and divination from Kiev Rus and Imperial Russia, and to some extent Ukraine and Belorussia. Where possible, Ryan identifies the sources of the texts (usually Greek, Arabic, or West European) and makes parallels to other cultures, ranging from classical antiquity to Finnic. He finds that Russia shares most of its magic and divination with the rest of Europe.Subjects covered include the Evil Eye, the Number of the Beast, omens, dreams, talismans and amulets, plants, gemstones, and other materials thought to possess magic properties. The first chapter gives a historical overview, and the final chapter summarizes the political, religious, and legal aspects of the history of magic in Russia. The author also provides translations of some key texts.The Bathhouse at Midnight will be invaluable for anyone--student, teacher, or general reader--with an interest in Russia, magic, or the occult. It is unique in its field and is set to become the definitive study of Russian magic.

[size=+1]Special Notes:[/size]


[size=-1]Legal Notes: Some description text and item pictures in this post may come from Amazon.com and are used by permission. The Cauldron is an Amazon Affiliate and purchases made through the Amazon links in this message help support The Cauldron.[/size]

[size=+1]Discussion and reviews of this book are welcome in this thread. If you've read the book, please tell us what you think of it and why.[/size]
Randall
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Quote from: RandallS;118710
If you've read the book, please tell us what you think of it and why.

 
This is a hefty tome (literally and metaphorically).  I actually haven't managed to read it all the way through because of its density.  It is pretty damn awesome, though, in what I have read.
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Quote from: Darkhawk;118714
This is a hefty tome (literally and metaphorically).  I actually haven't managed to read it all the way through because of its density.  It is pretty damn awesome, though, in what I have read.

 
Just borrowed this from a friend (it's really expensive here). Looks amazing. I'll write a review if I manage to get through some or all of it.
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dionysiandame

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Quote from: Darkhawk;118714
This is a hefty tome (literally and metaphorically).  I actually haven't managed to read it all the way through because of its density.  It is pretty damn awesome, though, in what I have read.


I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive. I can't wait to see what other readers have to say.
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Jack

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Quote from: dionysiandame;118723
I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive. I can't wait to see what other readers have to say.

I haven't read it in, oh, ten years, but I'm going to have to get a new copy if everyone is talking about it. ;)
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dionysiandame

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Quote from: Jack;118735
I haven't read it in, oh, ten years, but I'm going to have to get a new copy if everyone is talking about it. ;)

 
I just got the text message from Amazon that my copy is on the carrier to be delivered today. I'm super psyched about this and another title I ordered "The Occult in Russian and Soviet Literature."

Considering the influence Catholicism had/has on the occult in the West, I'm interested in seeing what, if any, manifestations the Eastern Orthodox tradition will have had in a similar role.
Writ, Ritual, and Revelation - Where I wax poetic about nothing at all.
2 Mallards and Thyme- Gastronomy, History, Odds & Ends
Become my latest obsession on Goodreads

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Riothamus12

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Quote from: RandallS;118710


Title: The Bathhouse at Midnight: An Historical Survey of Magic and Divination in Russia
Author(s): W. F. Ryan
Publisher: Pennsylvania State University Press
Publication Date: September 1999
ISBN: 0271019670
ISBN-13: 978-0271019673
Current Price and More Info from Amazon

[size=+1]Description:[/size]
The title of this book refers to the classic time and place for magic, witchcraft, and divination in Russia. The Bathhouse at Midnight, by one of the world's foremost experts on the subject, surveys all forms of magic, both learned and popular, in Russia from the fifth to the eighteenth century. While no book on the subject could be exhaustive, The Bathhouse at Midnight does describe and assess all the literary sources of magic, witchcraft, astrology, alchemy, and divination from Kiev Rus and Imperial Russia, and to some extent Ukraine and Belorussia. Where possible, Ryan identifies the sources of the texts (usually Greek, Arabic, or West European) and makes parallels to other cultures, ranging from classical antiquity to Finnic. He finds that Russia shares most of its magic and divination with the rest of Europe.Subjects covered include the Evil Eye, the Number of the Beast, omens, dreams, talismans and amulets, plants, gemstones, and other materials thought to possess magic properties. The first chapter gives a historical overview, and the final chapter summarizes the political, religious, and legal aspects of the history of magic in Russia. The author also provides translations of some key texts.The Bathhouse at Midnight will be invaluable for anyone--student, teacher, or general reader--with an interest in Russia, magic, or the occult. It is unique in its field and is set to become the definitive study of Russian magic.

[size=+1]Special Notes:[/size]


[size=-1]Legal Notes: Some description text and item pictures in this post may come from Amazon.com and are used by permission. The Cauldron is an Amazon Affiliate and purchases made through the Amazon links in this message help support The Cauldron.[/size]

[size=+1]Discussion and reviews of this book are welcome in this thread. If you've read the book, please tell us what you think of it and why.[/size]

 
I have not read it yet, but if what everyone else is saying is true then I'll have to pick up it at some point. It's rare that someone covers this topic with such depth and thoroughness.
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Jack

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Quote from: Riothamus12;118783
I have not read it yet, but if what everyone else is saying is true then I'll have to pick up it at some point. It's rare that someone covers this topic with such depth and thoroughness.

Okay, I picked it up at the public library today! Do you guys want to do an organized read or just post thoughts as we go?
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dionysiandame

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Quote from: Jack;119021
Okay, I picked it up at the public library today! Do you guys want to do an organized read or just post thoughts as we go?

 
I think it might be best to go with a "post thoughts as we go" method. Everyone's schedules are hella weird so attempting something like one chapter per week will fall to the wayside eventually.
Writ, Ritual, and Revelation - Where I wax poetic about nothing at all.
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Become my latest obsession on Goodreads

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savveir

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Quote from: dionysiandame;119024
I think it might be best to go with a "post thoughts as we go" method. Everyone's schedules are hella weird so attempting something like one chapter per week will fall to the wayside eventually.

 
But I have so many thoughts!
I'm roughly a couple of chapters in, and I'm really enjoying it. It was interesting to read about some of the folk practices, such as using someones footprint in workings, when I'd only heard about it before in hoodoo.
I like that the information is generally presented with where it came from, and of course footnotes, I love footnotes.
My copy of the book is slowly filling up with post-it notes on bits and pieces I've found particular relevance in.
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dionysiandame

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Quote from: savvy;119086
But I have so many thoughts!
I'm roughly a couple of chapters in, and I'm really enjoying it. It was interesting to read about some of the folk practices, such as using someones footprint in workings, when I'd only heard about it before in hoodoo.
I like that the information is generally presented with where it came from, and of course footnotes, I love footnotes.
My copy of the book is slowly filling up with post-it notes on bits and pieces I've found particular relevance in.

I started a notebook to keep my notes in for this book and, even though I'm only on chapter two I thought I'd share my thoughts so far and get some convo going in the thread.

One of the things that struck me is the first thing the book mentions; both Catholic and E. Orthodoxy clergy participated in practices of magic.

This seems like a no-brainer, but when I compare this explicit "admission" with what I've read of the Catholic clergy in particular, not many texts have openly stated that members of the church were involved in these kinds of heretical practices unless a heretical sect was the one being discussed.

I'm very much curious as to just how many Hellenic pagan practices remain in Eastern Orthodox orthopraxy/doxy to this day. Hopefully this will be discussed later in the text.

Similar to the west however, was the fact that "learned" magic wasn't viewed with as much suspicion as the popular kind. Was the magic of the poor viewed as much subservice due to its existence as thaumaturgy? Why would theurgy not garner a similar response in a sect that seemed more "in touch" with its mystical theology?

 I would go so far as to wager that while the E.O. church had the poor and politically disenfranchised under their thumb as much as the Catholic church, they may not have been as brutal and "arbitrary" in the application of punishment for going astray as the Western church.

I made special note of the "accused practices" listed toward the beginning of chapter two as I hope to explore some of these further. Especially the practices with Slavic-only names which appear to have no English equivalent.

Following are bullets I created for people/resources/terms of interest that I hope to delve into at a later time:

People:

  • St. Cyprian
  • Simon Magus

Resources:

  • Russian Primary Chronicle
  • Religion and Society in Russia
  • Secretum Secretorum
  • The Gates of Aristotle

Terms:

  • koldun
  • rafli
  • shestokryl
  • volkhvy
[/I]
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 02:54:38 pm by dionysiandame »
Writ, Ritual, and Revelation - Where I wax poetic about nothing at all.
2 Mallards and Thyme- Gastronomy, History, Odds & Ends
Become my latest obsession on Goodreads

He keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions.

Sophia C

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Quote from: dionysiandame;119865
Following are bullets I created for people/resources/terms of interest that I hope to delve into at a later time:

People:

  • St. Cyprian
  • Simon Magus

Resources:

  • Russian Primary Chronicle
  • Religion and Society in Russia
  • Secretum Secretorum
  • The Gates of Aristotle

Terms:

  • koldun
  • rafli
  • shestokryl
  • volkhvy
[/I]

St Cyprian is quite widely worked with, especially by hoodoo practitioners, from my understanding. It's very interesting to trace where that might originally have come from. That's the second "Ooh, like hoodoo" thought I've ha  while reading this book. Only on chapter 2 myself, but it's fascinating. Especially as someone whose magic has something of a Christian context.
"We're all stories, in the end. Make it a good one, eh?"
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dionysiandame

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Quote from: Naomi J;119911
St Cyprian is quite widely worked with, especially by hoodoo practitioners, from my understanding. It's very interesting to trace where that might originally have come from. That's the second "Ooh, like hoodoo" thought I've ha  while reading this book. Only on chapter 2 myself, but it's fascinating. Especially as someone whose magic has something of a Christian context.

 
I think a deeper look into "Slavic Hoo-doo" or Syncretic folk magic would be fascinating. They probably cover it in the book, but if they don't I definitely know where I'm headed next.

Forgive me if I've called the practices the wrong thing, I'm still just now learning this stuff so I'm going to fudge quite a bit.
Writ, Ritual, and Revelation - Where I wax poetic about nothing at all.
2 Mallards and Thyme- Gastronomy, History, Odds & Ends
Become my latest obsession on Goodreads

He keeps me with all of his other pretty things for I am just another pretty thing in a long list of acquisitions.

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