Author Topic: Right-wingers Sue to Invalidate Same-Sex Marriage in NY (Read 4917 times)

Altair · « **on:** July 26, 2011, 04:16:17 pm »

Flailing in desperation--

Lawsuit filed over New York same-sex marriage law

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-25/us/new.york.gay.marriage.lawsuit_1_marriage-law-gop-senator-senate-rules?_s=PM:US

"The lawsuit...seeks an injunction on the Marriage Equality Act, claiming that open meeting laws were violated, campaign contributions were promised, and Senate rules on debate were violated in order to enact the law..."

Um, have these people been to Albany? If these alleged "violations" (most if not all of them are not) are grounds for tossing the law, every NYS law passed in the last 30 years will be off the books. The judicial system here is loathe to interfere in the legislature's manner of doing business; I predict this lawsuit will be dismissed out of hand.

Meanwhile, on Sunday morning I biked down to the Manhattan City Clerk's Office to cheer on the first newlyweds as they left. When a pair of 80-something lesbians came outside for the first time as a married couple--one of them in a wheelchair--I became an instant wedding cliche and actually cried tears of joy. They were so cute, it was so wonderful that they could do this before they died, and it was all so awesomely exuberant.

Love wins out.

sailor · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2011, 06:45:54 pm »

Quote from: Altair;8435

"The lawsuit...seeks an injunction on the Marriage Equality Act, claiming that open meeting laws were violated, campaign contributions were promised, and Senate rules on debate were violated in order to enact the law..."

Looks like they learned from Wisconsin.

mandrina · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2011, 08:06:42 pm »

Quote from: sailor;8481

Looks like they learned from Wisconsin.

if I remember correctly, it didn't work in wisconsin.

Aisling · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2011, 08:24:13 pm »

Quote from: Altair;8435

Meanwhile, on Sunday morning I biked down to the Manhattan City Clerk's Office to cheer on the first newlyweds as they left. When a pair of 80-something lesbians came outside for the first time as a married couple--one of them in a wheelchair--I became an instant wedding cliche and actually cried tears of joy. They were so cute, it was so wonderful that they could do this before they died, and it was all so awesomely exuberant.

Love wins out.

:lub: That's the best story I've heard in a while! I'm glad you were able to be there.

victoreia · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2011, 08:48:09 pm »

Quote from: Aisling;8507

:lub: That's the best story I've heard in a while! I'm glad you were able to be there.

Totally! :thup: All I could do was raise a metaphorical toast to all of them!

sailor · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2011, 09:02:51 pm »

Quote from: mandrina;8502

if I remember correctly, it didn't work in wisconsin.

True, it only delayed things. Maybe Altair can shed some light on what an injunction could hope to achieve longer term. If it was a six months from elections, it might make sense to stop marriages with the hope of a new legislature overturning the law. but that doesn't really help, since same-sex marriages performed in MA are legal in NY even before this.

Could the case drag on like Prop 8 in California? I don't think so, without looking at the details, I don't see such a majorly complicated legal question.

victoreia · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2011, 09:10:13 pm »

Quote from: Altair;8435

Flailing in desperation--

Lawsuit filed over New York same-sex marriage law

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-25/us/new.york.gay.marriage.lawsuit_1_marriage-law-gop-senator-senate-rules?_s=PM:US

"The lawsuit...seeks an injunction on the Marriage Equality Act, claiming that open meeting laws were violated, campaign contributions were promised, and Senate rules on debate were violated in order to enact the law..."

What gets me is the executive director of the primary plaintiff organization (NYCF): "It is unfortunate that state senators chose to protect their personal interests, rather than the people they were elected to represent," McGuire said in a statement.

Huh? Aren't the people they were elected to represent a good portion of the people who took advantage of this new law? What planet is this guy from?

Altair · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:38:15 am »

Quote from: sailor;8524

True, it only delayed things. Maybe Altair can shed some light on what an injunction could hope to achieve longer term. If it was a six months from elections, it might make sense to stop marriages with the hope of a new legislature overturning the law. but that doesn't really help, since same-sex marriages performed in MA are legal in NY even before this.

Could the case drag on like Prop 8 in California? I don't think so, without looking at the details, I don't see such a majorly complicated legal question.

They won't get an injunction; like I said, this will be dismissed out of hand.

There is no hope of a new legislature repealing this. NY's State Assembly (our lower house) is overwhelmingly Democratic, and any repeal attempt would face a certain veto by the governor. The so-called National Organization for Marriage (NOM) has a 4-year plan for repeal in NY that's total bullshit, designed purely as a fundraising tool. And there's no mechanism in NY for a voter-initiated referendum, so there can't be any Prop 8-style repeal.

So it's not a delaying tactic. It's pure desperation.

Altair · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:47:59 am »

Quote from: victoreia;8530

What gets me is the executive director of the primary plaintiff organization (NYCF): "It is unfortunate that state senators chose to protect their personal interests, rather than the people they were elected to represent," McGuire said in a statement.

Huh? Aren't the people they were elected to represent a good portion of the people who took advantage of this new law? What planet is this guy from?

Polls show the majority of NYers favor same-sex marriage. And it's been trending that way for a while, so over time the scales will only tilt more in SSM's favor. So yeah, this guy is way off base.

I love how NOM is squealing "Let the people vote!"...as if representative democracy is some new evil foisted upon the world, rather than the basis of our entire system of government. NOM whined when judges performed their Constitutional duty to guarantee the rights of the minority ("judicial tyranny!") and "imposed" SSM in MA, IA, and the like.... now, when NY gets SSM legislatively, they whine that it's only legit if the people do it by direct vote.

Quite frankly, considering the polling and how swiftly attitudes evolve once SSM arrives and the sky doesn't fall, I think they'd lose that in NY too.

Altair · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:52:36 am »

Quote from: victoreia;8518

Totally! :thup: All I could do was raise a metaphorical toast to all of them!

I'm not an objective observer, but the joy was infectious; everybody was just glowing. The local news reports--and even in this pro-gay town, they've always tried to maintain a level of impartiality--were full of beaming reporters. I read how one stone-faced cop keeping order at the city clerk's office burst out into tears during one of the weddings.

Inca · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:51:08 am »

Quote from: sailor;8524

True, it only delayed things. Maybe Altair can shed some light on what an injunction could hope to achieve longer term.

Why do you think it is aimed to achieve anything on a longer term? The whole objection to gay marriage seem to be spite - with no reasonable arguments anyway. Such an action would be perfectly in line with that - refusing to let reason get in the way, and frustrate and distress people and make life difficult, not as a means to achieve anything, but as a goal in itself.

Why do you assume it is otherwise?

sailor · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:21:45 am »

Quote from: Inca;8612

Why do you think it is aimed to achieve anything on a longer term? The whole objection to gay marriage seem to be spite - with no reasonable arguments anyway. Such an action would be perfectly in line with that - refusing to let reason get in the way, and frustrate and distress people and make life difficult, not as a means to achieve anything, but as a goal in itself.

Why do you assume it is otherwise?

No, the objection is not spite. That's way to dismissive of the movement. They have arguements, but most, if not all, can not be proved right or wrong in under a couple of decades; and even then it probably won't be clear that SSM is a significant factor in the changes.

NOM does not have unlimited money, nor does any organization pro or anti SSM. A short (say month or two) delay in the law via an injunction effectively just runs up their legal bills.

Inca · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2011, 08:30:14 am »

Quote from: sailor;8616

They have arguements, but most, if not all, can not be proved right or wrong in under a couple of decades; and even then it probably won't be clear that SSM is a significant factor in the changes.

I gladly missed all of those arguments - or perhaps I took them as what I think they are: spite. Some arguments, when provided without context (as you do at times), seem on the surface moderately rational. If they are provided in context, and connected to other behaviors and decisions of those people involved, they start losing all coherence.

Like the 'freedom of speech'-argument (in itself quite valid) looses its power if you then propose a law limiting freedom of speech to certain groups. Sorry, can't have it both.

I have never encountered any anti-same sex marriage that has any coherence at all with the larger issue, and I wish people would stop pretending there is something to it, and with that helping those discriminatory and pointless opinions hold public acceptance.

Quote

NOM does not have unlimited money, nor does any organization pro or anti SSM. A short (say month or two) delay in the law via an injunction effectively just runs up their legal bills.

So? Current state of affairs show nicely that financial planning isn't our society's strongest point anyway. There's numerous decisions that have no benefit and cost money - that argument does nothing to prove there is some rational thought process going on here.

victoreia · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:03:34 pm »

Quote from: Inca;8634

I have never encountered any anti-same sex marriage that has any coherence at all with the larger issue, and I wish people would stop pretending there is something to it, and with that helping those discriminatory and pointless opinions hold public acceptance.

I think I caught part of a news story on The Today Show this past Monday; they were talking about how same-sex marriage was impacting hetero marriage. Supposedly the anti-SSM argument is that SSM is destroying "the institution of marriage", but the numbers over the last decade or so indicates that more people are staying married, regardless of the sex of the partners. (Mind you, I was getting ready for work while this segment was airing, so I may not have heard everything accurately.)

RandallS · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:23:42 pm »

Quote from: victoreia;8770

I think I caught part of a news story on The Today Show this past Monday; they were talking about how same-sex marriage was impacting hetero marriage.

No impact at all, as far as I can tell. Not that I expected one -- the opponents of gay marriage never could tell me just how gays marrying would negatively affect my hetero marriage to Lyric. Gays have been able to marry in various US states and other countries for several years now and I've observed no effects of any type on my marriage.

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Author Topic: Right-wingers Sue to Invalidate Same-Sex Marriage in NY (Read 4917 times)

Altair

Right-wingers Sue to Invalidate Same-Sex Marriage in NY

sailor

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mandrina

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Aisling

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victoreia

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sailor

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