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    Artemis?

    Does anyone here work with/or have worked with Artemis? If you have any tips? I am still figuring all of this out.


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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombyFrogg View Post
    Does anyone here work with/or have worked with Artemis? If you have any tips? I am still figuring all of this out.
    If you could perhaps give us an idea of what your looking for or asking about it would be easier to address. As far as honoring and being bound to I have been with and to Artemis since I was a youth and i'm 52 now.

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by monsnoleedra View Post
    If you could perhaps give us an idea of what your looking for or asking about it would be easier to address. As far as honoring and being bound to I have been with and to Artemis since I was a youth and i'm 52 now.
    Honestly anything you think would be helpful. I know that is vague. Umm... Offerings, is there specific colors (like a specific color candle I can light for her each day) she is asscoitated with, anything that might upset her, Prayers/Chants that might be associated with her, etc... If you know of any good sources of information where I can find out more about her. Everything I find is the same: She is the twin of Apollo, Goddess of the Moon & the Hunt, Virgin Goddess, Goddess of childbirth. I keep feel there is more to her than that, more I should know. I am hoping someone who has worked with her might be able to help me figure it out. I don't know if any of that will help you help me but I hope so. Thanks.

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombyFrogg View Post
    Does anyone here work with/or have worked with Artemis? If you have any tips? I am still figuring all of this out.
    You may find the devotional book Biblioteca Alexandrina put out, Unbound: A Devotional Anthology to Artemis, relevant. (PS: I'd recommend purchasing it through their Createspace account because they get more of the proceeds, and thus more of it goes towards donations to worthy causes, seeing as they are non-profit.)
    "Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
    I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." - Sarah Williams
    On the Rivers

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombyFrogg View Post
    Honestly anything you think would be helpful. I know that is vague. ...
    Here is something I wrote some time ago but might be useful to you.


    Artemis – The Misidentified Goddess

    Of all goddesses I am aware of none has been more misappropriated than has the goddesses known as Artemis. Her current face before society badly distorted and disfigured by the feminist movement’s selective use of attributes. Her historical origins diluted as time has marched forward and group after group has changed her or reworked her to support their own belief or agenda.

    Across the sands of time has she been called the Virgin Huntress of noted fame. Known as a Mistress of Animals in some locations, Wild forest goddess in others, Sister to Apollo in some saga’s and of unique birth in other’s. Many names and many guises have been overlaid upon her through out the ages. Yet who is the true Goddess Artemis? Who is to say or can truly say for she has been seen as many things by many people.

    Her earliest Greek persona is that of the Arcadian Artemis. In this persona is she found to possess the characteristics she is so well known for. It is the Arcadian Artemis that is the Wild Woman of the Forest and goddess of Nymphs. The Goddess that spends all her time frolicking in the woods with her Nymphs and removed from man. Just one facet of the Artemis persona that would be painted later and used to tie her in comparison to the Roman Diana. Yet she holds no association to Apollo in this persona.

    Her Olympian origin holds her as the daughter of Leto, sister to Apollo. Under this guise she is also known as Artemis Agrotera (The Huntress) and as Cynthia from her place of birth upon Mount Cynthus on Delos. The young daughter that is ever chaste and never to be dominated by man. She who carries a deep love of the wild places and the hunt, of both swift joy and swift reaction to a perceived injustice against her. A Daughter that is both associated with easy childbirth or death in childbirth by her silver arrows.

    Yet older origins are hinted at in her association as Artemis, Lady of Ephesos (Ephesus). It is at Ephesos that her persona as Mistress of Animals is perhaps the best known. The so called many breasted statue giving rise to some facets of her possible older association with the goddess Cyebe. Yet her history at Ephesos shows her origins to be owed to the race known as Amazons, the female warrior society. Yet it is at Ephesos that her grandeur and splendor would rise up as one of the ancient wonders of the Old World, The Temple of Artemis. Her influence so strong and prevailing across time that it would be mentioned in the bible and become the birth place of the Cult which would rise up known as Mary, Lady of Ephesus in later years of Christianity.

    Yet the Lady of Ephesus has no association to Apollo nor is she tied to the Olympian identifier. No the Lady of Ephesus is best tied to the stories of the Anatolian Artemis, as separate a divinity as could be imagined. Perhaps one of the greatest indicators of her none Olympian origins is the tacking of sides as recorded in the stories of the Trojan War. Like Apollo, Artemis to fought on the side of the Trojans and perhaps as Main land Greece rises in power and the Trojans are defeated so to is Artemis defeated by Hera who takes her bow and arrows and sends her fleeing. Potentially showing the rise of Mainland Greece over the outer regions and the final ordering of the position of the Anatolian Gods / Goddesses and their inclusion into the Olympian mythos.

    Yet the Trojan War also introduces us to another face of the Anatolian Artemis, that being Artemis Turopolis or the Taurian Artemis. It is under the guise of the Taurian Artemis that we find the connection to the blood rites and associations to Hekate another Anatolian Goddess. We are introduced to the Taurian Artemis after Iphigeneia is demanded in sacrifice for an affront to Artemis in her sacred woods. An affront so great that she holds the entire Greek fleet bound until it is sated with sacrifice. As we follow the saga of Iphigeneia and Orestes do we see the migration of the Taurian Artemis back to Olympian Greece.

    The Taurian Artemis would find a new home in the area of Brauron in Attica, whence the goddess derived the name of Brauronia. It is at Brauron where the young girls of Athens would be bound to serve the Goddess as Bear Dancers (Arkteia) to make amends for the killing of a bear at her sacred sanctuary. It is here also that the young girls would make sacrifice of their childhood things as they passed from childhood to adulthood and reached a marriageable age. Yet the story of Iphigeneia and Orestes does not end at Brauron though Iphigeneia’s part of the story does. No for the cult statue is believed by some to have been carried to Sparta.

    It is at Sparta that Artemis becomes known as Artemis Orthia. Even at Orthia did the blood rites continue and become part of the annual stealing of the Cheese from the altar. The process where young boys were flogged as they tried to steal the cheese and the High Priestess held the image and decided if sufficient blood had been spilt upon it or not. If she was unable to hold it then the sacred relic demanded more blood and that the boys be whipped harder. Yet not only did the Taurian facet come but also the Mistress of Animals facet would be found at Othia.

    Yet no single paper can touch upon all the facets of the goddess Artemis. At Ikaria she is known as the goddess of seafarers and mistress of the coastal sea creatures. At Sardis abt 60 miles from Ephesos was another of her temples built that would be listed as the 4th largest Ionic temple ever built, only matched in grandeur by Ephesos. Her temples and sanctuaries being found all over even as far away as Syracuse.

    Time would find her equated to the Egyptian goddess Bast and Pahket by the local Greek communities which would arrive in Egypt over various time frames. Roman would equate her to their goddess Diana and would inter mingle their stories and legends, even to the point where Ephesus would take the name of Diana of Ephesus in places. In her own lands would she become associated with Selene the moon goddess and Hekate of the crossroads. Sometimes Artemis is seen as those goddess other times seen as sharing attributes of those goddesses.

    No, of all the Goddesses I know none have been misidentified as greatly to my perspective as Artemis has. Be she known as the Goddess of Nymphs; Goddess of the Amazons; Virgin Huntress; Mistress of Animals; Far Shooter; Eternal Virgin or any of her other names and persona’s she is so much more than the feminist movements visual or the narrow scope that so many try to paint her into in today’s society. But each of us must find her in our own way I suppose but mine is to known her as deeply and honestly as I can. I do not color over her capacity for vengeance and demands. I do not enhance a single facet of her to support some hidden agenda. No not even to paint her in the light of perfection and purity that some would place her in.

    No to me she is all of those things and none of them all at once. To me she is Artemis and demands I come to know her for whom she is not what they would select to present as her.

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    Re: Artemis?

    [QUOTE=ZombyFrogg;7511]Honestly anything you think would be helpful. I know that is vague. QUOTE]

    Some other items I gathered over the years..

    ARTEMIS OFFERINGS / SACRIFICE REFERENCES


    General Dedications:

    1. Pre-menstural & Post-Menstural clothing

    Sebesta, another scholar of Greek women, writes: Textiles, in fact, marked many stages in a woman's life * and these stages all focused on a woman's reproductive status. Mothers dedicated richly woven textiles to Artemis after their daughters had successfully experienced menarche and to birth goddesses after a successful childbirth. Family members dedicated beautifully woven dresses to Iphigeneia at Brauron on behalf of women who died in childbirth.

    The girdle was thought to have been tied in a ritual knot by Artemis that could only be untied by her husband as he undressed her. It was also on the wedding night that females dedicated all childhood toys to Artemis at her shrine as a parting to adolescence. An epigraph in honor of Laconian goddess Artemis Limnatis suggests this symbolic gift: Timareta, who is about to marry, dedicated to thee, O goddess of Limnes, her tambourines, a ball she loved, a hairnet that held her hair, and her dolls. She, a virgin, has dedicated these things, as is fitting, to the virgin goddess, along with the clothing of these small virgins. In return, O daughter of Leto, extend thy hand over the daughter of Timaretos and piously watch over this pious girl.


    General Offerings:

    1. Virginial Clothes & objects of youth
    2. Votive offerings

    Suidas s.v. Lysizonos gune (trans. Suda On Line) (Byzantine Greek lexicon C10th A.D.) : "Lysizonos gune (girdle-loosening woman) : She who has drawn near to a man. For virgins about to have sex dedicated their virginal lingerie to Artemis."

    Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1. 28 (trans. Fairbanks) (Greek rhetorician C3rd A.D.) :
    "[From a description of a painting depicting hunters :] Hunters as they advance will hymn Artemis Agrotera (Goddess of the Hunt); for yonder is a temple to her, and a statue worn smooth with age, and heads of boars and bears; and wild animals sacred to her graze there, fawns and wolves and hares, all tame and without fear of man. After a prayer the hunters continue the hunt."

    Herodotus, Histories 3. 48 (trans. Godley) (Greek historian C5th B.C.) :
    "Periander [tyrant of Korinthos C7th B.C.] sent to Alyattes at Sardis three hundred boys, sons of notable men in Korkyra, to be made eunuchs. The Korinthians who brought the boys put in at Samos; and when the Samians heard why the boys were brought, first they instructed them to take sanctuary in the temple of Artemis, then they would not allow the suppliants to be dragged from the temple; and when the Korinthians tried to starve the boys out, the Samians held a festival which they still celebrate in the same fashion; throughout the time that the boys were seeking asylum, they held nightly dances of young men and women to which it was made a custom to bring cakes of sesame and honey, so that the Korkyraian boys might snatch these and have food. This continued to be done until the Korinthian guards left their charge and departed; then the Samians took the boys back to Korkyra."

    General Sacrifice of Animals / Other:

    1. Goats
    2. Lambs (Part origin of Golden Fleece)
    3. Maimed Animals
    4. Waxen Animals
    5. Humans (Tuarin & Brauronian & possibly Orthia), later replaced by blood without killing (Scourging at Orthia, simulated kill small nick at Brauronia)
    6. Goldfinch

    "After a female bear appeared in it [the shrine of Artemis at Mounykhia in Attika] and was done away with by the Athenians a famine ensued, and the god prophesied the means of relieving the famine: someone had to sacrifice his daughter to the goddess [to compensate her for the death of her sacred bear]." - Suidas s.v. Embaros eimi

    Suidas s.v. Arktos e Brauroniois (trans. Suda On Line) (Byzantine Greek lexicon C10th A.D.) : "Arktos e Brauroniois (I was a bear at the Brauronia) : Women playing the bear used to celebrate a festival for Artemis dressed in saffron robes; not older than 10 years nor less than 5; appeasing the goddess. The reason was that a wild she-bear used to come to the deme of Phlauidoi and spend time there; and she became tamed and was brought up with the humans. Some virgin was playing with her and, when the girl began acting recklessly, the she-bear was provoked and scratched the virgin; her brothers were angered by this and speared the she-bear, and because of this a pestilential sickness fell upon the Athenians. When the Athenians consulted the oracle [the god] said that there would be a release from the evils if, as blood price for the she-bear that died, they compelled their virgins to play the bear. And the Athenians decreed that no virgin might be given in marriage to a man if she hadn't previously played the bear for the goddess."

    "A wild she-bear [sacred to Artemis] used to come to the deme of Phlauidoi [Brauron] and spend time there ... [until some men] speared the she-bear, and because of this a pestilential sickness fell upon the Athenians. When the Athenians consulted the oracle [the god] said that there would be a release from the evils if, as blood price for the she-bear that died, they compelled their virgins to play the bear." - Suidas s.v. Arktos e Brauroniois

    Aelian, Historical Miscellany 2. 25 (trans. Wilson) (Greek rhetorician C2nd to 3rd A.D.) :
    "They say that the sixth of Thargelion brought much good fortune not only to Athens but to many other cities . . . the Persians were defeated on that day [in 490 B.C.]; on it the Athenians sacrifice to the goddess Agrotera [i.e. Artemis] three hundred goats, acting in accordance with Miltiades’ vow."
    [N.B. Thargelion is approximately May. Miltiades vowed to sacrifice one goat annually for every Persian killed in the battle, but because the dead were so numerous the number was limited to 500. The victory at Marathon was celebrated on the 6th Boedromion, which was also the festival of Artemis.]

    Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana 6. 20 (trans. Conybeare) (Greek biography C1st to 2nd A.D.) : "[The Egyptian sage Thespesion] put some questions to Apollonios [of Tyana, pagan prophet C1st A.D.], about the scourging in Sparta, and asked if the Lakonians were smitten with rods in public. `Yes,’ answered the other, `as hard, O Thespesion, as men can smite them; and it is especially men of noble and distinguished birth among them that are so treated . . . The custom of scourging is a ceremony in honour of Artemis Skythia, so they say, and was prescribed by oracles, and to oppose the regulations of the gods is in my opinion utter madness . . . It is not the scourging but the sprinkling of the altar with human blood that is important, for the Skythoi too held the altar to be worthy thereof; but the Lakedaimonians modified the ceremony of [human] sacrifice because of its implacable cruelty, and turned it into a contest of endurance, undergone without any loss of life, and yet securing to the goddess as first fruits an offering of their own blood.’
    `Why then,’ said the other, `do they not sacrifice strangers right out to Artemis, as the Skythoi formerly considered right to do?’
    `Because,’ he answered, `it is not congenial to any of the Greeks to adopt in their full rigour the manners and customs of barbarians.'"

    Suidas s.v. Lykourgos (trans. Suda On Line) (Byzantine Greek lexicon C10th A.D.) :
    "Lykourgos : Spartiate, descendant of Prokles; lawgiver . . . This man also legislated for . . . the practice of thorough beating as an exercise for excellence instead of sullen envy; for previously a young man used to be sacrified to Artemis Orthosia."

    Pausanias 7.18.10-12
    [11] Every year too the people of Patrae celebrate the festival Laphria in honor of their Artemis, and at it they employ a method of sacrifice peculiar to the place. Round the altar in a circle they set up logs of wood still green, each of them sixteen cubits long. On the altar within the circle is placed the driest of their wood. Just before the time of the festival they construct a smooth ascent to the altar, piling earth upon the altar steps.
    [12] The festival begins with a most splendid procession in honor of Artemis, and the maiden officiating as priestess rides last in the procession upon a car yoked to deer. It is, however, not till the next day that the sacrifice is offered, and the festival is not only a state function but also quite a popular general holiday. For the people throw alive upon the altar edible birds and every kind of victim as well; there are wild boars, deer and gazelles; some bring wolf-cubs or bear-cubs, others the full-grown beasts.

    Pausanias, Description of Greece 8. 23. 6 :
    "About a stade distant from Kaphye is a place called Kondylea, where there are a grove and a temple of Artemis called of old Kondyleatis. They say that the name of the goddess was changed for the following reason. Some children, the number of whom is not recorded, while playing about the sanctuary found a rope, and tying it round the neck of the image said that Artemis was being strangled. The Kaphyans, detecting what the children had done, stoned them to death. When they had done this, a malady befell their women, whose babies were stillborn, until the Pythian priestess bade them bury the children, and sacrifice to them every year as sacrifice is made to heroes, because they had been wrongly put to death. The Kaphyans still obey this oracle, and call the goddess at Kondyleai, as they say the oracle also bade them, Apankhomene (the Strangled Lady) from that day to this."

    Callimachus, Iambi Fragment 6b (from Scholiast on Aristophanes the Birds 873) :
    "Euphronios says that in Amarythos [in Euboia] Artemis was worshipped as Kolainis (Hornless), because Agamemnon sacrificed to her a hornless ram made of wax."

    Aelian, On Animals 12. 34 (trans. Scholfield) (Greek natural history C2nd to 3rd A.D.) :
    "The people of Eretria [in Euboia] sacrifice maimed animals to Artemis at Amarynthos."

    Pausanias, Description of Greece 3. 16. 7 :
    "The place named Limnaion (Marshy ) [in Lakedaimonia] is sacred to Artemis Orthia (Upright ). The wooden image there they say is that which once Orestes and Iphigeneia stole out of the Tauric land, and the Lakedaemonians say that it was brought to their land because there also Orestes was king. I think their story more probable than that of the Athenians. For what could have induced Iphigeneia to leave the image behind at Brauron? Or why did the Athenians, when they were preparing to abandon their land, fail to include this image in what they put on board their ships? And yet, right down to the present day, the fame of the Tauric goddess has remained so high that the Kappadokians dwelling on the Euxinos [Black Sea] claim that the image is among them, a like claim being made by those Lydians also who have a sanctuary of Artemis Anaeitis. But the Athenians, we are asked to believe, made light of it becoming booty of the Persians. For the image at Brauron was brought to Susa, and afterwards Seleukos gave it to the Syrians of Laodicka, who still possess it. I will give other evidence that the Orthia in Lakedaimon is the wooden image from the foreigners. Firstly, Astrabakos and Alopekos, sons of Irbos, son of Amphisthenes, son of Amphikles, son of Agis, when they found the image straightway became insane. Secondly, the Spartan Limnatians, the Kynosourians, and the people of Mesoa and Pitane, while sacrificing to Artemis, fell to quarreling, which led also to bloodshed; many were killed at the altar and the rest died of disease. Whereat an oracle was delivered to them, that they should stain the altar with human blood. He used to be sacrificed upon whomsoever the lot fell, but Lykourgos changed the custom to a scourging of the lads, and so in this way the altar is stained with human blood. By them stands the priestess, holding the wooden image. Now it is small and light, but if ever the scourgers spare the lash because of a lad's beauty or high rank, then at once the priestess finds the image grow so heavy that she can hardly carry it. She lays the blame on the scourgers, and says that it is their fault that she is being weighed down. So the image ever since the sacrifices in the Tauric land keeps its fondness for human blood."

    Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana 6. 20 (trans. Conybeare) (Greek biography C1st to 2nd A.D.) :
    "It is the sprinkling of the altar [of Artemis at Sparta] with human blood that is important, for the Skythoi too held the altar to be worthy thereof; but the Lakedaimonians modified the ceremony of [human] sacrifice because of its implacable cruelty, and turned it into a contest of endurance."

    Strabo, Geography 4. 1. 5 :
    "They [the people of Massilia] founded in Iberia [towns] as strongholds against he Iberians, and thy also taught the Iberians the sacred rites of Artemis Ephesia, as practiced in the fatherland, so that they sacrifice by the Greek ritual."

    THE BIRDS by Aristophanes, Part 13
    PITHETAERUS
    Enough! but, by Heracles! what is this? Great gods! I have seen
    many prodigious things, but I never saw a muzzled raven. (The
    PRIEST arrives.) Priest! it's high time! Sacrifice to the new gods.
    PRIEST
    I begin, but where is the man with the basket? Pray to the
    Hestia of the birds, to the kite, who presides over the hearth, and to
    all the god and goddess-birds who dwell in Olympus...
    PITHETAERUS
    Oh! Hawk, the sacred guardian of Sunium, oh, god of the storks!
    PRIEST
    ...to the swan of Delos, to Leto the mother of the quails, and to
    Artemis, the goldfinch...
    PITHETAERUS
    It's no longer Artemis Colaenis, but Artemis the goldfinch.
    PRIEST
    ...to Bacchus, the finch and Cybele, the ostrich and mother of the
    gods and mankind...
    PITHETAERUS
    Oh! sovereign ostrich Cybele, mother of Cleocritus!
    PRIEST
    ...to grant health and safety to the Nephelococcygians as well as
    to the dwellers in Chios...

    He bought some land as an offering to the goddess in a place where Apollo [via his oracle at Delphi] had instructed him. A river called the Selinous ran through the land, and in Ephesos too there is a river of the same name flowing past the temple of Artemis. There are fish and shellfish in both rivers, but at Skillous there is game-hunting country too. Xenophon also used the sacred money for building an altar and a sanctuary, and thenceforth he always dedicated a tithe of the season's produce in order to celebrate a sacrifice in honour of the goddess. All the inhabitants of Skillous and the surrounding area, men and women, used to take part in the festival. The goddess [sc. Artemis] provided those who joined in the feast with barley-flour, bread, wine, dried fruits, and a portion both of the domesticated animals sacrificed from the sacred herds and of the wild game. The latter abounded, since Xenophon's sons and the sons of other local people went hunting specially, and anyone who wished could join in. Wild boar, antelope and stags were caught, partly on the sacred land itself, partly on Mount Pholoe. The land lies on the road from Sparta to Olympia, about twenty stades [4 km] from the temple of Zeus. In the sacred enclosure there are meadows and thickly wooded hills, good terrain for raising pigs, cattle and also horses; plenty of fodder is available for the animals of visiting celebrants too. The sanctuary is surrounded by a grove of fruit trees providing excellent fruit in all the appropriate seasons. The temple is a small-scale reproduction of the great temple of Artemis at Ephesos, and the cult-statue is as near a likeness to the golden Ephesian original as a cypress-wood image can be. A stele stands by the temple, bearing the following inscription: `This ground is sacred to Artemis. Let him who owns it and takes its produce make a tithe-offering every year. With the surplus let him maintain the temple. Whosoever fails in this duty shall not escape the goddess's notice'.
    (Xenophon Anabasis v.3.7-23)

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombyFrogg View Post
    ..

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/1088242 Something else you may consider reading if you have access to it.

    In Sparta a great number of dances were associated with the cult of Artemis. Ritual dances ofparthenoi were an essential feature of the goddess's cult in many parts of the ancient Greek world. In Delos the sacrifices in honour of her and her brother Apollo were accompanied by dances and the two gods were known as the "dancing deities," since they were particularly associated with various dances performed during festivals dedicated to them.' The fact that Apollo and Artemis were predominant deities at Sparta explains why dances were among Sparta's most important cultic feature^.^

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by monsnoleedra View Post
    Her current face before society badly distorted and disfigured by the feminist movement’s selective use of attributes.
    Again with that same sweeping generalization - once again (for the third time), feminism is not a monolith, most feminists did not and do not make any reference whatsoever to Artemis, and even among pagan feminists misrepresentation of goddesses is not SOP. You said here that you'd modified your file copy, but either you didn't save the modification or you used a different (unmodified) source for this repost.

    You're objecting to historical inaccuracy about Artemis (in and of itself, a laudable goal) - being historically inaccurate about feminism while doing so doesn't support that goal, it just makes you look like it's not historical inaccuracy you object to, but feminism.

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    "Nobody's good at anything until they practice." - Brina (Yewberry)
    My blog "If You Ain't Makin' Waves, You Ain't Kickin' Hard Enough", at Dreamwidth and LJ

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyktipolos View Post
    You may find the devotional book Biblioteca Alexandrina put out, Unbound: A Devotional Anthology to Artemis, relevant. (PS: I'd recommend purchasing it through their Createspace account because they get more of the proceeds, and thus more of it goes towards donations to worthy causes, seeing as they are non-profit.)
    I can also recommend this book.

    I also learned a lot by reading through the material on her at
    http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Artemis.html

    I printed this material and believe me, it made a very thick reader.

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    Re: Artemis?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunflowerP View Post
    Again with that same sweeping generalization - once again (for the third time)..Sunflower
    Sorry about that, it actually was changed to state .. Her once current face before society badly distorted and disfigured by a select few within the Pagan feminist movement’s use of attributes in the 70's and 80's ..

    I though I had gotten all copies of the actual file changed but that came from my back-up file on an external harddrive. Yet because of this error I have gone through and deleted and re-saved all my back-ups.

    With regard to the influence of that brand of feminism I'll simply point to the likes of Z Budapest & Starhawk who are still front face people. Even the recent situation of who is a woman with regards to the trans-gendered and such.

    You may not like it but it is still pretty in your face in many Pagan books and actions within the reclaimist traditions.

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