Author Topic: Is Asatru a synonym of "old norse religion"? (Read 4552 times)

Haganrix · « **on:** July 22, 2011, 04:50:32 pm »

The question whether Old Norse Religion and Asatru are synonymous or not came to me when I read some postings in Germany. The participants said their religion was "Germanisches Heidentum" (old germanic heathenism) but definitely not Asatru. Those people explained they felt estranged from some newer tendencies and "Edda-dogmatism".
And there are indeed some others who keep the Eddas like substitute-bibels although Snorri had written his text as an instruction for skalds.

However, Asatru is a neologism and coined by Sweinbjörn Beinteinsson 1972 in Iceland when he reestablished the old religion. And because he died some time in the 90th of the last century he had no influence on the development of Asatru.

So, what are your views on this subject?

Juniperberry · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:13:30 am »

Quote from: Haganrix;7180

The question whether Old Norse Religion and Asatru are synonymous or not came to me when I read some postings in Germany. The participants said their religion was "Germanisches Heidentum" (old germanic heathenism) but definitely not Asatru. Those people explained they felt estranged from some newer tendencies and "Edda-dogmatism".
And there are indeed some others who keep the Eddas like substitute-bibels although Snorri had written his text as an instruction for skalds.

However, Asatru is a neologism and coined by Sweinbjörn Beinteinsson 1972 in Iceland when he reestablished the old religion. And because he died some time in the 90th of the last century he had no influence on the development of Asatru.

So, what are your views on this subject?

Asatru is more of an organized approach to heathenry and, afaik, it implies a more Icelandic based folkway. It's much more political and proactive, I think, then general heathen groups. But it's definitely a faction of heathenry and not a catch-all term for heathenry (that would be heathen, heh).

Could be wrong, though.

bobthesane · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:04:08 am »

Quote from: Haganrix;7180

The question whether Old Norse Religion and Asatru are synonymous or not came to me when I read some postings in Germany. The participants said their religion was "Germanisches Heidentum" (old germanic heathenism) but definitely not Asatru. Those people explained they felt estranged from some newer tendencies and "Edda-dogmatism".
And there are indeed some others who keep the Eddas like substitute-bibels although Snorri had written his text as an instruction for skalds.

However, Asatru is a neologism and coined by Sweinbjörn Beinteinsson 1972 in Iceland when he reestablished the old religion. And because he died some time in the 90th of the last century he had no influence on the development of Asatru.

So, what are your views on this subject?

Asatru is specifically Icelandic-based heathenry. Other forms include Forn Sedr (Swedish-based), Theodism (Anglo-Saxon-based), Die Sitte (German-based), etc. Many modern heathens simply refer to themselves as 'heathen', eschewing regional specificity.

I call myself Asatru because my 'flavor' is specifically ICelandic in nature.

Ghost of the Navigator · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2011, 01:30:40 pm »

Quote from: bobthesane;7337

Asatru is specifically Icelandic-based heathenry. Other forms include Forn Sedr (Swedish-based), Theodism (Anglo-Saxon-based), Die Sitte (German-based), etc. Many modern heathens simply refer to themselves as 'heathen', eschewing regional specificity.

I call myself Asatru because my 'flavor' is specifically ICelandic in nature.

Hi Bob, isn't Asatru belief/faith in the Aesir, just like Vanatru would be belief/faith in the Vanir? I have also heard of Rokkrtru (sp?)which would be belief/faith in the Etin's? I really respect your thoughts, and honestly I get confused with this while I have been researching.

Besides the Icelandic orgins it seems to me that now this is almost a way of showing different denominations of the same faith. I myself haven't been able to find a name for it that I really connect with for various reasons. The closest term I have seen used that I like is Troth but once again this is more a reference to a sect of the faith not a term for the faith itself.

I dislike the term "heathen" since I see it as a slur towards the faiths followers. I just don't understand the idea of taking up a slur and wearing that title with pride. Besides if you play word association with people outside of Neopaganism you will get all sorts of responses like "filthy, uneducated, barbaric..."

Why wouldn't they? If you look up Heathen in Websters you will find the synonyms: barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, savage, heathenish, natural, Neanderthal (or Neandertal), rude, uncivil, uncivilized, uncultivated, wild

These are not terms that I would associate with this faith or its people (well natural is ok). I would like to see others views on the usage of the term heathen, maybe I am putting to much into it.

Juniperberry · « **Reply #4 on:** July 25, 2011, 04:18:04 pm »

Quote from: Ghost of the Navigator;8033

I dislike the term "heathen" since I see it as a slur towards the faiths followers. I just don't understand the idea of taking up a slur and wearing that title with pride. Besides if you play word association with people outside of Neopaganism you will get all sorts of responses like "filthy, uneducated, barbaric..."

Why wouldn't they? If you look up Heathen in Websters you will find the synonyms: barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, savage, heathenish, natural, Neanderthal (or Neandertal), rude, uncivil, uncivilized, uncultivated, wild

These are not terms that I would associate with this faith or its people (well natural is ok). I would like to see others views on the usage of the term heathen, maybe I am putting to much into it.

Not Bob, sorry. *smile*

Heathen is derived from heiðr. It's a name repeatedly given to seeresses and witches. It also means 'honour', 'heath'. "But historically assumed to be from Goth. haiþno "gentile, heathen woman," used by Ulfilas in the first translation of the Bible into a Germanic language." (etymonline.)

Hyacinth Belle · « **Reply #5 on:** July 25, 2011, 07:00:06 pm »

Quote from: Ghost of the Navigator;8033

I dislike the term "heathen" since I see it as a slur towards the faiths followers. I just don't understand the idea of taking up a slur and wearing that title with pride. Besides if you play word association with people outside of Neopaganism you will get all sorts of responses like "filthy, uneducated, barbaric..."

Why wouldn't they? If you look up Heathen in Websters you will find the synonyms: barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, savage, heathenish, natural, Neanderthal (or Neandertal), rude, uncivil, uncivilized, uncultivated, wild

Really, the first definition on dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster just says a heathen is someone who isn't JCI. There isn't a neat synonym for this rather complex definition, so you get the colorful synonyms you mention. But the definition of the word doesn't approach this.

Take a look at this article, Call Us Heathens. I personally like this take on it. The old meaning of "heathen" meant "dweller on the heath" (makes sense, right?). The heath was/is a kind of wild place, resistant to Christian conversion. I can see how the modern connotations of the word developed. The article explains it better.

Hyacinth Belle · « **Reply #6 on:** July 25, 2011, 07:08:08 pm »

Quote from: Ghost of the Navigator;8033

Hi Bob, isn't Asatru belief/faith in the Aesir, just like Vanatru would be belief/faith in the Vanir?

Yes, Asatru is supposed to mean Asa (gods... Aesir) + tru (faith) = faith in the Aesir. BUT, Bob is right that it specifically refers to following the Icelandic version of the faith.

For example, this article points out that "Asatru is an Icelandic translation of the Danish word Asetro" (my emphasis).

Ghost of the Navigator · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2011, 09:20:31 pm »

Quote from: Juniperberry;8070

Not Bob, sorry. *smile*

Heathen is derived from heiðr. It's a name repeatedly given to seeresses and witches. It also means 'honour', 'heath'. "But historically assumed to be from Goth. haiþno "gentile, heathen woman," used by Ulfilas in the first translation of the Bible into a Germanic language." (etymonline.)

Thank you for letting me know I think that this is something I might had put to much and to little thought into. Don't worry about not being Bob, I was just looking at his response when I was posing my question. I really respect everyones responses when I ask questions. I am very much a novice to all of this.

Ghost of the Navigator · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2011, 09:35:59 pm »

it doesn't ring true. The term heathen in english has been used prior to being used

Quote from: Hyacinth Belle;8139

Really, the first definition on dictionary.com and Merriam-Webster just says a heathen is someone who isn't JCI. There isn't a neat synonym for this rather complex definition, so you get the colorful synonyms you mention. But the definition of the word doesn't approach this.

Take a look at this article, Call Us Heathens. I personally like this take on it. The old meaning of "heathen" meant "dweller on the heath" (makes sense, right?). The heath was/is a kind of wild place, resistant to Christian conversion. I can see how the modern connotations of the word developed. The article explains it better.

As I said before this is something I either put to much or to little thought into. I do understand that the first defination is someone who isn't JCI, but that would make over90% of the people on this board heathen so I went to the other definations. The article "Call us Heathens" talks about that and it makes some sense to me. Thank you for responding and for the other link on the Asatru.

Hyacinth Belle · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2011, 08:39:23 pm »

Quote from: Ghost of the Navigator;8536

Thank you for letting me know I think that this is something I might had put to much and to little thought into. Don't worry about not being Bob, I was just looking at his response when I was posing my question. I really respect everyones responses when I ask questions. I am very much a novice to all of this.

No worries, I'm glad we could clear some of it up for you!

bobthesane · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2011, 08:37:00 am »

Quote from: Ghost of the Navigator;8033

Hi Bob, isn't Asatru belief/faith in the Aesir, just like Vanatru would be belief/faith in the Vanir? I have also heard of Rokkrtru (sp?)which would be belief/faith in the Etin's? I really respect your thoughts, and honestly I get confused with this while I have been researching.

Besides the Icelandic orgins it seems to me that now this is almost a way of showing different denominations of the same faith. I myself haven't been able to find a name for it that I really connect with for various reasons. The closest term I have seen used that I like is Troth but once again this is more a reference to a sect of the faith not a term for the faith itself.

I dislike the term "heathen" since I see it as a slur towards the faiths followers. I just don't understand the idea of taking up a slur and wearing that title with pride. Besides if you play word association with people outside of Neopaganism you will get all sorts of responses like "filthy, uneducated, barbaric..."

Why wouldn't they? If you look up Heathen in Websters you will find the synonyms: barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, savage, heathenish, natural, Neanderthal (or Neandertal), rude, uncivil, uncivilized, uncultivated, wild

These are not terms that I would associate with this faith or its people (well natural is ok). I would like to see others views on the usage of the term heathen, maybe I am putting to much into it.

Hi, sorry it took me so long to get back to this. Been super busy lately.

As has been said, while the term 'Asatru' may literally refer to the Aesir, it has been adopted/adapted to mean Icelandic heathenry. There are those who call themselves Vanatru as well, and while most of the ones I have met were just a tad on the uber-fluffy side, some were okay and used the term to mean that while they were Icelandic influenced heathens, the tribe of gods they felt more connected to would be the Vanir.

Honestly, a heathen's a heathen's a heathen. We all place our faith in the same families of gods, our regional praxis may vary.

As for 'rokkrtru'... Don't even get me started. These are NOT generally recognized as heathens in the sense that we are. They are something else. They have chosen to give their affection to the villains and outlaws of the supernatural world and therefore are marked with the same brush in many circles. My personal take on these guys is the majority of them are rebellious teens (at least in spirit) looking to freak people out. I have no time or patience for this. They can do their stuff somewhere else, far away from me and mine.