Author Topic: Talking: In my head and out loud (Read 3453 times)

sunflower47 · « **on:** August 29, 2012, 08:58:42 pm »

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

Fier · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2012, 10:20:37 pm »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

I don't think so. The gods don't have ears, so I don't think they will "hear" you any better whether you speak aloud or in your head. I usually do speak aloud - at normal conversation level or softer - because for me it helps cause a slightly stronger energetic difference than just speaking in my head.

Jenett · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2012, 11:19:36 pm »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

Not weird, precisely. But you're removing tools you might actually find useful.

The thing about talking in ritual is that it's not *just* about you saying stuff so the Gods can hear. (Because, really, they're probably not relying on soundwaves in the first place.)

But when you need to say something outloud, a bunch of things happen.

- No matter *how* focused you think your thoughts are, having to put stuff into precise controlled words is probably more so. Especially when you add the speed, pacing, and so on of those words. (This, by itself, you can manage silently, but...)

- Saying things aloud requires that you're breathing. Simple, right? But the thing is that you'll need to stop and breathe somewhere. It puts pauses in what you do. Each of those pauses reconnects you with a body at a point in what you're saying. By saying things outloud, you make those decisions more deliberate. (You're unlikely to stop to breathe in the middle of a word, or two words from the end of sentence, for example.)

- When you speak, all sorts of bits of your body make the resonance that makes sound. Your inner ears vibrate as you hear what you say. The bone in your jaw and skull conducts sound. Your vocal cords move, your chest rises and falls, your diapragm moves. And how you're standing or sitting or holding the rest of your body makes a difference too.

Talking - making sound - is an intensely physical and powerful tool that involves nearly your entire body.

And that's pretty powerful in ritual. Even if you're talking to an empty room.

So, can you do silent ritual? Yep, and it's a good skill to learn, because there are times that silence is the best choice for various reasons. Is it the best thing to do all the time, especially when you're learning? Maybe not.

The good news is that - to get all those benefits of talking I just listed - you don't need to be very loud. There are certainly things you can learn about yourself (about pacing, about pitch, about speed of speech, about phrasing) if you can speak at a normal conversational level or a tiny bit louder (like an actor might). But you can get almost all of the ritual benefits of sound if you're talking not much above a whisper.

Amethyst · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2012, 11:23:16 pm »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

I hope not, because that's me! Raised Roman Catholic, the whole "this is the ritual and this is how it goes exactly every time with the same exact words and motions" never sat well with me. I say some things out loud - poems or conversation or prayer - but for aspects that might be more formal (asking spirits/gods to join you and whatnot) I usually just visualize. I've found it's easier for me to talk if I have some sort of music in the background. But a lot of the time I'm in a room with other people (yay dorms) so silence is best for me.

Siannan · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2012, 09:26:01 pm »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

I can see what Jenett is talking about, but I find most of my communication with the Gods is very quiet, if not silent. I am not into the theatrics or drama at all so am more comfortable with that right now. I know that sometimes you have to step outside your comfort zone , but I think that if you are uncomfortable or self-conscious then that will affect your ritual as well.

Marilyn/Absentminded · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2012, 10:14:41 pm »

Quote from: Siannan;71539

I know that sometimes you have to step outside your comfort zone , but I think that if you are uncomfortable or self-conscious then that will affect your ritual as well.

It will, and quite often for the better. Feeling self-conscious or silly makes your whole body involved in what's coming out of your mouth. I find it adds power to spells and depth to prayers. That tingle that happens when I feel completely ridiculous helps moves me from mundane 'here' to effective 'there'. If it's not important enough to risk feeling a little foolish I often don't bother doing it, or choose other methods with other ways to send out my energies.

Absent

wadjet · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2012, 11:32:34 pm »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

I too am easily made uncomfortable. I feel really stoopid hopping around and chanting some gibberish, even (especially?) if I wrote it myself. Arm gestures are okay (because I talk with my hands anyway) but the pomp and circumstance of ritual usually makes me feel like a fraud.

However, I've tried "silent ritual". It doesn't work for me either. Maybe I don't feel embarrassed, but I feel like I'm half-assing it, not actually trying. There is no power there. It doesn't feel religious, or sacred.

So I say: if doing your rituals silently still creates a holy and sacred space for you, then by all means.

Otherwise: if you are anything like me, you have anxiety or insecurity and actually have hangups about "screwing up" or "looking stupid" or "doing something wrong". In which case, it's time for self-evaluation and hard work and comfort-zone leaving. :sick:

(The good news is, I'm under the impression that the longer you do it, the less uncomfortable you will feel, and the more "response" you'll feel in return.)

Sharysa · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2012, 12:44:04 am »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

No. As mentioned before, the gods don't have ears. They don't need us to talk. However, the benefits of talking have been mentioned previously.

Quote from: wadjet;71561

(The good news is, I'm under the impression that the longer you do it, the less uncomfortable you will feel, and the more "response" you'll feel in return.)

That's because everything needs practice. If none of us needed practice, we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

Sophia C · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2012, 03:43:39 am »

Quote from: Sharysa;71574

No. As mentioned before, the gods don't have ears. They don't need us to talk.

I don't disagree, but a blogger I like argues that, since his gods aren't omnipotent, they need him to speak his prayers aloud: http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Interview-with-P-Sufenas-Virius-Lupus-Founder-of-Ekklesia-Antinoou-Galina-Krasskova-01-12-2011?offset=4&max=1

I would counter his theology with the point that my gods aren't human and can speak to me in my head as much as they want. But it's an interesting idea, if only to challenge any styles of prayer/worship that we might have brought with us unconsciously from other religious backgrounds.

I tend to pray in my head and do ritual aloud. It helps separate the two out, for me, and I agree that speaking aloud can give ritual words and actions more power.

Nachtigall · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:46:43 am »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

That's how I used to feel. But it became clear later, that saying the prayers in my mind doesn't work the way I wanted to.

First, as you say, there's a feeling of talking to myself, which made me feel uncomfortable as well. That had to go, at least during the ritual, as something from my doubting, atheist views.

Second, while I do think that the Gods can see our minds, as Marilyn said, honoring the Gods must be important enough for us to overcome the feelings of discomfort. I still pray silently in public places, but at least at how I should be able to speak to my Gods freely.

Third, what was relevant for me personally, speaking out loud during rituals was connected to my ability to speak out loud in "mundane" situations, when needed. Often I tend to keep quiet, avoid any attention and not voice my needs - that, also, had to be changed to an extent. In a way, that was a reaffirmation of "my voice deserves to be heard".

Maps · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2012, 11:21:33 am »

Quote from: sunflower47;71391

So, I'm not big on fancy ritual. At least that's what I tell people. But really, what I'm not big on is theatrics. Raising my hands to the sky and vigorously invoking or casting or whatever makes me really uncomfortable, like I'm talking to air. If I have to talk, it's really quiet, and in a very conversational tone, because I also don't like formality. Really, If I'm alone I'd rather not talk at all. Is this weird, having a silent ritual, where the spoken parts are all said in my head?

I hate saying my own liturgy aloud and alone, because it feels relatively useless, but I'll do it anyway under some circumstances. I really, really prefer the movement and tactility of ritual. Ordered and purposeful gestures does much more for me and I feel that it's better received. For me, prayer in its most formal is the physical action, making and doing. That's my preferred language of worship.

Siannan · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2012, 12:23:41 pm »

Quote from: Marilyn/Absentminded;71544

It will, and quite often for the better. Feeling self-conscious or silly makes your whole body involved in what's coming out of your mouth. I find it adds power to spells and depth to prayers. That tingle that happens when I feel completely ridiculous helps moves me from mundane 'here' to effective 'there'. If it's not important enough to risk feeling a little foolish I often don't bother doing it, or choose other methods with other ways to send out my energies.

Absent

Absent,
This makes sense and gives me something to think about... Just not sure I am ready to give up that comfort zone yet, but I don't do much ritual anyway.

Laveth · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2012, 12:37:21 pm »

Quote from: Jenett;71406

- When you speak, all sorts of bits of your body make the resonance that makes sound. Your inner ears vibrate as you hear what you say. The bone in your jaw and skull conducts sound. Your vocal cords move, your chest rises and falls, your diapragm moves. And how you're standing or sitting or holding the rest of your body makes a difference too.

This pretty much sums up my position on this. More often than not, I don't use words during ritual (or whatever).

But creating the energy vibration tends to attract and keep the focus of spiritual helpers, so it is definitely a useful tool when the situation warrants. Same for incantations, chanting, singing, humming, etc... It just helps to change your awareness a bit.

As for the necessity of speaking, it's not crucial for the success of whatever you're doing. I've never had a failed attempt by silently saying the words in my head, as long as my focus and concentration were held.

Waldhexe · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2012, 04:30:48 am »

Quote from: Nachtigall;71592

Third, what was relevant for me personally, speaking out loud during rituals was connected to my ability to speak out loud in "mundane" situations, when needed. Often I tend to keep quiet, avoid any attention and not voice my needs - that, also, had to be changed to an extent. In a way, that was a reaffirmation of "my voice deserves to be heard".

I feel very similar with this.

I don't think the gods need spoken words, but speaking makes the experience for me much more powerful. Voice carries a lot of stuff like my mood and my voice also permeates ritual space filling it with a specific energy.

R03e · « **Reply #14 on:** October 31, 2012, 08:20:32 pm »

Quote from: Waldhexe;71935

I feel very similar with this.

I don't think the gods need spoken words, but speaking makes the experience for me much more powerful. Voice carries a lot of stuff like my mood and my voice also permeates ritual space filling it with a specific energy.

I used silent prayers while praying to god when I was still a Christian. Didn't matter if silently reading prayers from the prayer book or my made up ones which I would say in my mind as if talking out loud. Just felt like I speak clearer in my head than out loud especially if I had to speak softly.

I found my self doing that tonight when praying to my deceased family members. The only thing I did out loud was read The Raven.

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Author Topic: Talking: In my head and out loud (Read 3453 times)

sunflower47

Talking: In my head and out loud

Fier

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Jenett

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Amethyst

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Siannan

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Marilyn/Absentminded

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wadjet

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Sharysa

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Sophia C

Talking: In my head and out loud

Nachtigall

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Maps

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Siannan

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Laveth

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