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Author Topic: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh  (Read 13413 times)

Demophon

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2016, 10:20:31 pm »
Quote from: veggiewolf;62725
I wondered how many people actually celebrate Lughnasadh and how many celebrate Lammas instead?


I think that, technically, "Lammas" is a medieval English Catholic festival, so pagans probably wouldn't celebrate it in a historically authentic way. Traditional Wiccans are secretive and like to blend in with the dominant culture, so they will use the names of Christian festivals that generally occur around the same time to refer to the sabbats (although, the majority of Anglican and Roman Catholic churches don't even use the medieval names for these festivals anymore, so it could just be more about giving Wicca a more medieval flavour through an invented historical connection to the Middle Ages). I've heard of some Wiccans just referring to this sabbat as "August Eve" to avoid the cultural baggage of both Christianity and Celtic paganism.

In the context of the neo-pagan Wheel of the Year, I think the names are arbitrary, as it's a modern holiday that draws from both medieval Catholic and Celtic pagan sources, so either name works. An Irish Celtic polytheist, on the other hand, would likely value the festival as specifically dedicated to the god Lugh, so wouldn't use "Lammas".

Personally, I don't have a strong opinion. I don't really celebrate these holidays myself, but I think it's fine if neo-pagans use various names to refer to this festival.

MeadowRae

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2016, 08:55:31 am »
Quote from: yewberry;117704
The new nanos are really fun.  Making some truly funky beers.  I love a well-made NW IPA, but I'm starting to get into Brett-fermented stuff and sours.  My two new favorites are Gastropod and Outlander.  I wish the latter had better food, though.

Brina


I was just wondering how to celebrate Lughnasadh/Lammas today. Looks like it's going to be some good beer.  :) To answer the original question, I am a bit torn on this holiday. I would say Lammas because I'm not a hard polytheist, but I do love me some Brighid, and I believe that Lugh has a place in the holiday, for sure, so...a bit of both? For right now, I will be celebrating Lammas because my practice is limited by my living space and I don't want to raise suspicions.
The genderqueer witch your mother warned you about

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2016, 09:43:42 am »
Quote from: veggiewolf;62725
I wondered how many people actually celebrate Lughnasadh and how many celebrate Lammas instead?

Meso-pagan Druidry is one of my paths, which includes observing eight annual festivals, regardless of what they are called.

I do not call the festival in late July and early August Lammas, since I am not a Scottish Episcopalian or, indeed, a member of any Anglican church anywhere.

During each of the eight annual festivals of Meso-Druidry, I perform several separate activities, so my celebration isn't limited to one day. This year, the waning half-moon happened on 27th of July, and the Sun runs in the middle of tropical Leo in 7th and 8th of August. Tomorrow I will meditate on the myths of Tailtiu and the second battle of Mag Tuired.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 09:51:00 am by RecycledBenedict »

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2016, 09:57:43 am »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;194544
Meso-pagan Druidry is one of my paths, which includes observing eight annual festivals, regardless of what they are called.


Perhaps I ought to add, that some Meso-pagan Druids only observe four or six annual festivals. The number eight was Ross Nichols' idea, but a good one!

Demophon

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2016, 09:09:47 pm »
Quote from: FraterBenedict;194544
I do not call the festival in late July and early August Lammas, since I am not a Scottish Episcopalian or, indeed, a member of any Anglican church anywhere.

 
I've found that very few Anglican churches even observe Lammas these days, at least where I live. Maybe it's more common in the UK. Even Candlemas is rarely referred to by that name except in really traditional Anglo-Catholic parishes. The more mainline churches mostly refer to it as "The Presentation of the Lord in the Temple" or something like that.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2016, 06:27:01 am »
Quote from: Demophon;194597
I've found that very few Anglican churches even observe Lammas these days, at least where I live. Maybe it's more common in the UK. Even Candlemas is rarely referred to by that name except in really traditional Anglo-Catholic parishes. The more mainline churches mostly refer to it as "The Presentation of the Lord in the Temple" or something like that.


As you may have noticed among Canadian Anglicans, many (but not all)  Anglicans/Episcopalian churches try to accomodate different ritual preferences, by keeping an official edition of Book of Common Prayer in traditional liturgical style (thee, thou, doeth...) and permitting an alternative prayer book under various titles in contemporary liturgical style. Although the 'alternative' books often become the new normal, there are usually one and another 'prayerbook parish' out there, and - at least in England and Scotland - there exist also the not uncommon option to celebrate a prayerbook communion earlier in the morning, before celebrating a Parish Eucharist according to the 'alternative' book. Prayerbook evensong seem to be more popular than alternative evening prayer in cathedrals, probably because the choirs have a richer choice of music settings if they use the 'traditional' text.

In England, this means the use of Book of Common Prayer (1662) in parallel with Common Worship (2000). In Scotland, this means the use of Book of Common Prayer (1929) in parallel with several alternatives from 1970, 1982 and the last decade.

Since Lammas is an English word, it was not used in the official liturgical books of the Middle Ages, which were written in Latin, but the word was in popular use. When the Elizabethan settlement was agreed upon, Church of England added several saints' days to its calendar in 1561. Among these, Lammas Day was included, but as a lesser saint's day (black letter day) without any collect of its own, and not given a mass proper of its own.

The daily office had been reduced to two prayer services a day in 1549. In some surroundings unofficial and private books of prayer containing versions of the lesser hours were used: Such a book by John Cosin was given imprimatur by the bishop of London in 1627. In the 1840s, a segment of Church of England - the Anglo-Catholics - began to produce several such private books of lesser hours, often including a collect for Lammas Day (alternatively known as St. Peter's chains).

As far as I know, the Scottish edition of Book of Common Prayer (1929) is the only one to include actual propers for Lammas Day in the official and mandatory book. Other editions of Book of Common Prayer were content by just mentioning the day as a lesser saint's day without propers. I may be wrong, though: There might have existed editions of the Prayerbook in the former colonies, which I am not aware of, which included propers for Lammas Day.

It has also to be noted, that some Anglican/Episcopal churches went in another direction than the Scottish Episcopalians: The Americans flung the lesser saint's days out in 1789.

It seems like, that the only places where Anglicans celebrate Lammas Day (St. Peter's chains) are those Scottish Episcopal parishes that go for a 'traditional' option.

RecycledBenedict

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Re: Lammas vs. Lughnasadh
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2016, 08:36:00 am »
Quote from: Demophon;194597
I've found that very few Anglican churches even observe Lammas these days, at least where I live. Maybe it's more common in the UK. Even Candlemas is rarely referred to by that name except in really traditional Anglo-Catholic parishes. The more mainline churches mostly refer to it as "The Presentation of the Lord in the Temple" or something like that.


I have been able to locate a proper for St. Peter's chains in the 1960 supplement to the Indian Book of Common Prayer, but I am not sure if that remained in liturgical use after the emergence of Church of North India in 1970, Church of Pakistan in 1971 and Church of Bangladesh in 1975.

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