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Author Topic: The Wiccan Rede  (Read 2851 times)

AutumnalRose

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The Wiccan Rede
« on: July 11, 2011, 02:18:36 pm »
I have been spending a lot of time thinking about the definition of harm recently. In trying to find an interpretation of the Rede that suits me, my lifestyle and circumstances I encounter, I have found that I just don't have a definite idea in my own mind of what consitutes harm. Some examples are easy of course - physical pain, emotional cruelty, depriving people of rights or possessions, hurting animals for entertainment......  But then there are the less black and white examples and these are the ones that keep me up at night. Just as one random example, does irritation constitute harm? Is the man using his mobile phone on the bus at the top of his voice harming other people by breaking their peace or is irritation not enough to be considered harm?

There are so many grey areas that bother me.

So, I was wondering if anyone has come to a definition of harm that they feel works for them? And if so, would you be kind enough to share some thoughts so I can clear my muddied mind a bit.

Jenett

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Re: The Wiccan Rede
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 03:26:30 pm »
Quote from: AutumnalRose;3940

So, I was wondering if anyone has come to a definition of harm that they feel works for them? And if so, would you be kind enough to share some thoughts so I can clear my muddied mind a bit.


Part of the problem is that the short version of the Rede ("An it harm none, do as ye will..") is an entirely incomplete ethical code.

As you point out, it doesn't determine what harm is. And it doesn't talk about what to do if an action *will* harm someone, which lots of our actions do.

(I've got an extended discussion of this on my website at http://gleewood.org/seeking/basics/ethics/ if that helps - but lots of times, helping one person means at least potentially harming another person, or the classic example of surgery or chemotherapy, where we're doing a potentially devastating action in the hopes of a long-term greater good.)

And of course, people have different views of harm - some people think it's ongoing damage or detriment (I lean that way), while others think that someone disagreeing with them online (civilly, but clearly: not online bullying, just "I don't agree" sorts of stuff) is harm.

My own ethics are built on an idea I got from a friend: the idea that each of us, inside us, has something equivalent to a cast iron cauldron, seasoned by all the actions we take in every part of our lives (and by all the actions we *don't* take).

If we want to be people who do certain kinds of things, or who are seen in certain kinds of ways, then the behaviors we do that back that up will season the pot. We can choose to do something different - but when we do, the mark of that action's going to be with us for a long time (until lots of other actions season over it and it fades away), or we're going to have to completely scrub everything out, lose all that seasoning, and have to build it up again. (Not impossible, but a whole lot of hard work.)

So, in your example, of someone using his phone in a way that annoys the people around them: I wouldn't precisely call that harm (it's more like annoyance, at least unless it's clearly against the rules/customs of the space or someone asks him to stop), but it wouldn't be the way I'd want to behave.

So in my own actions, I'd avoid that - and I might also look at ways I'd be comfortable speaking up or doing something else (speaking to a bus driver). And it might depend if it were a noisy crowded rush hour bus, or something early in the morning that would otherwise be peaceful and quiet.

Or I might just decide that there are some things I don't want to pour my time and energy into (because arguments with people on buses rarely go well...) and get some really good headphones so I could listen to what I wanted to listen to. Or some combination of the three.

And here's the thing: I'd also, before I started taking action about someone else's use - have a good look at my own use of the bus. Am I making phone calls? Taking up more than my reasonable share of space? Distracting other people somehow?

If so, my magical and ethical system suggests that addressing those first might be a good move (both because that can subtly encourage other people to adjust their behavior likewise, and because the stuff you're doing that you take action about without reflection and change tends to come back and bite you sooner rather than later.)
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Asch

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The Wiccan Rede
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 03:35:15 pm »
Quote from: AutumnalRose;3940
I have been spending a lot of time thinking about the definition of harm recently. In trying to find an interpretation of the Rede that suits me, my lifestyle and circumstances I encounter, I have found that I just don't have a definite idea in my own mind of what consitutes harm. Some examples are easy of course - physical pain, emotional cruelty, depriving people of rights or possessions, hurting animals for entertainment......  But then there are the less black and white examples and these are the ones that keep me up at night. Just as one random example, does irritation constitute harm? Is the man using his mobile phone on the bus at the top of his voice harming other people by breaking their peace or is irritation not enough to be considered harm?

There are so many grey areas that bother me.

So, I was wondering if anyone has come to a definition of harm that they feel works for them? And if so, would you be kind enough to share some thoughts so I can clear my muddied mind a bit.

Iirc 'rede' is an antiquated term for advice, so not only is 'an it harm none, do what ye will' incomplete (as has been pointed out) it is also not a binding ethical contract but rather advice. I am guessing/assuming also that you are a solitary/eclectic practitioner? My guess is that this subject is addressed more in depth when a member if/when a person joins a coven etc as there would be a mentor/HP/HPS to guide you.

For myself I don't ascribe to the rede at all. My personal philosophy is a bit of a mix of worldviews and virtues, the core of which is an avoidance of malice as much as possible.

Micheál

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Re: The Wiccan Rede
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 05:18:23 pm »
Quote from: AutumnalRose;3940

So, I was wondering if anyone has come to a definition of harm that they feel works for them?

All the Rede is to Traditional Wiccans, is a loose moral code to be interpreted personally. You can't take it too literally, or else you'll be afraid to breathe in case you harm micro-organisms.

For everyone else, your definition of harm, then, would be a personal interpretation. There's even the Lycian version of the Rede, "An it harm none, do as you will. An it cause harm, do as you must."

For me, personally, I follow it along the lines of Thelema's,"Do what thou Wilt, shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the Law, Love under Will," that the final phrase of the Rede is still likely to have been based off of, or at least influenced by. Basically, as further explained in AL:1:44, "For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect," therefore I personally view interfering with anyone's 'true will' as potentially harmful, as it could disrupt them in their life's path. Sometimes I can see it as even trying to give someone advice that just won't listen harmful, such as maybe even forcing help on a self medicator that for whatever reason refuses because they're stuck wherever they need to be until they see or learn whatever they need to on their life path(Vague possibility, I'm not actually saying there is harm in helping) Sometimes, more mundanely, it is necessary to harm, and that doesn't violate my moral code.
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Re: The Wiccan Rede
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 05:48:08 pm »
Quote from: AutumnalRose;3940

So, I was wondering if anyone has come to a definition of harm that they feel works for them? And if so, would you be kind enough to share some thoughts so I can clear my muddied mind a bit.

 
As Asch noted, it's advice, not "the one commandment" - and as both Jenett and Asch noted, it's not a complete ethical system in itself.  To put it to effective use, it's necessary to think about it, not only theoretically/generally as you're doing, but practically/specifically in any given situation, because no two sets of circumstances are identical - so you'll probably never get to a point where your mind is completely clear about it, which to my mind is a feature, not a bug.

Here are a couple of essays that may help you in sorting out your thinking:
Exegesis on the Rede
Wiccan Ethics And The Wiccan Rede

And here are a couple of discussion threads from the TC archive forum:
Special Discussion: An It Harm None, Do What You Will
Rede and Fluff

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