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Author Topic: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers  (Read 15055 times)

Abduzza

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Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« on: June 14, 2012, 07:54:43 pm »
Since I'm still hammering out the specifics of following an Arabic Pagan path, I'd like to invite any questions that you guys may have about it. Not only will you get some information but it will greatly help me elucidate my own beliefs.

So, go for it. No question will go unanswered! :)

Shine

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 08:21:59 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;60102
Since I'm still hammering out the specifics of following an Arabic Pagan path, I'd like to invite any questions that you guys may have about it. Not only will you get some information but it will greatly help me elucidate my own beliefs.

So, go for it. No question will go unanswered! :)

 
Hmmm, I've never heard of this path before. Completely ignorant about all aspects of it. I'll ask a couple questions and maybe have more later. . .

1. Which deities, if any, play the biggest role in an Arabic pagan path?

2. What would you say are the most important practices to maintain? Daily prayer? Libations?

3. Many paths have a specific set of what we would call "morals" attached to them. Is this true of Arabic paganism? If so, what are those morals?
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 08:55:02 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;60102
Since I'm still hammering out the specifics of following an Arabic Pagan path, I'd like to invite any questions that you guys may have about it. Not only will you get some information but it will greatly help me elucidate my own beliefs.

So, go for it. No question will go unanswered! :)


1. Is Arabic paganism something that is widely known to exist (albeit, in most Muslim countries, driven underground)? Or is it something you're developing yourself?

2. Does it make use of the Arabic language--specifically, Arabic calligraphy? (which is such a spectacular art form it would be a shame if some pagan path *didn't* make use of it)
The first song sets the wheel in motion / The second is a song of love / The third song tells of Her devotion / The fourth cries joy from the sky above
The fifth song binds our fate to silence / and bids us live each moment well / The sixth unleashes rage and violence / The seventh song has truth to tell
The last song echoes through the ages / to ask its question all night long / And close the circle on these pages / These, the metamythos songs

Valentine

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 04:52:18 am »
Quote from: Abduzza;60102
Since I'm still hammering out the specifics of following an Arabic Pagan path, I'd like to invite any questions that you guys may have about it. Not only will you get some information but it will greatly help me elucidate my own beliefs.

So, go for it. No question will go unanswered! :)

 
I assume you're attempting a reconstruction from the pre-Islamic period--am I right in assuming your icon is of al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat?  It's an interesting effort, since so much of the extant references we have are from Islamicate sources, and so have an investment in making things look a certain way.  I do know it's a pretty big pantheon, for all that we've almost no information on most of it.  I wish you the best of luck!
How's your Classical Arabic?  Have you read the Hanging Odes?
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Abduzza

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 04:05:56 pm »
Quote
Hmmm, I've never heard of this path before. Completely ignorant about all aspects of it. I'll ask a couple questions and maybe have more later. . .

1. Which deities, if any, play the biggest role in an Arabic pagan path?

2. What would you say are the most important practices to maintain? Daily prayer? Libations?

3. Many paths have a specific set of what we would call "morals" attached to them. Is this true of Arabic paganism? If so, what are those morals?


1. In the Arabic path there are a boat load of Gods and Goddesses. From what we understand the three big Goddesses are Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Al-Manat. The chief God was Allah and there was most likely a "conquering hero" figure named Hubal. Hubal actually may be a Arabic understanding of the Hercules story.

2. In classical Arabic religion there were no real set practices. The only thing that was a set practice was pilgrimage to a Kaaba or house where idols of the God and Goddess would be kept. Besides that prayer was spontaneous, there were no real rituals corresponding with birth and death besides spontaneous prayer. Oath-swearing was a very common practice as was hunting in the name of whatever God or Goddess one favored.

3. Morality was based on the tribal necessities of the era, so family bonds and revenge were the earliest modes of morals. Being that I'm not a reconstructionist, I don't hold these specific moral ideas myself because I'm not a bedouin having to fight for water in the desert.

Quote
1. Is Arabic paganism something that is widely known to exist (albeit, in most Muslim countries, driven underground)? Or is it something you're developing yourself?

2. Does it make use of the Arabic language--specifically, Arabic calligraphy? (which is such a spectacular art form it would be a shame if some pagan path *didn't* make use of it)


1. There is some debate about this. There are some reports of growing Neo-Pagan influence generally in the Middle East, especially in the Levant. But as a specific Arabic Neo-paganism? Little is known to exist above ground. There are full on re-con groups, like Wathan, but I haven't met a Neo-Pagan that uses the Arabic Pantheon but myself.

2. It should! Wathan uses Arabic calligraphy in the construction of oaths and I see no reason why an Arabic Neo-Pagan can't do the same.


Quote from: Valentine;60165
I assume you're attempting a reconstruction from the pre-Islamic period--am I right in assuming your icon is of al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat?  It's an interesting effort, since so much of the extant references we have are from Islamicate sources, and so have an investment in making things look a certain way.  I do know it's a pretty big pantheon, for all that we've almost no information on most of it.  I wish you the best of luck!
How's your Classical Arabic?  Have you read the Hanging Odes?


You're spot on! The good thing is that we're beginning to unearth a lot of new information on Pre-Islamic Arabia and how much of Islam was molded on much older Arabian tradition. A good book on the subject is: Arabia and the Arabs by Robert Hoyland.

And I'm majoring in Islamic Studies at my university but I'm procrastinating in my Arabic courses. New Languages are difficult for me to learn.

Shine

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 04:24:25 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;60224
1. In the Arabic path there are a boat load of Gods and Goddesses. From what we understand the three big Goddesses are Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Al-Manat. The chief God was Allah and there was most likely a "conquering hero" figure named Hubal. Hubal actually may be a Arabic understanding of the Hercules story.

2. In classical Arabic religion there were no real set practices. The only thing that was a set practice was pilgrimage to a Kaaba or house where idols of the God and Goddess would be kept. Besides that prayer was spontaneous, there were no real rituals corresponding with birth and death besides spontaneous prayer. Oath-swearing was a very common practice as was hunting in the name of whatever God or Goddess one favored.

3. Morality was based on the tribal necessities of the era, so family bonds and revenge were the earliest modes of morals. Being that I'm not a reconstructionist, I don't hold these specific moral ideas myself because I'm not a bedouin having to fight for water in the desert.

 
Interesting! Thanks for answering my questions. If you don't mind, I've got some more things I'm curious about.

1. Exactly what aspects of Arabic paganism do you want to bring back? I'm confused since it doesn't seem like there's a lot of set practices to bring back to light. Worship and prayer, I can see, but I'm lost on what else you plan on doing.

2. Since you're not a recon, does this mean you're going to do something along the lines of an Arabic-flavored Wicca (note: I don't use the term in a disparaging way)?

3. What texts, ancient or modern, have you found most valuable during your attempts to construct and follow this path?
Leave your darkness with me, and I will make you shine.

yewberry

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 06:42:35 pm »
Quote from: Shine;60226
I'm confused since it doesn't seem like there's a lot of set practices to bring back to light. Worship and prayer, I can see, but I'm lost on what else you plan on doing.


Celtic Recons have little to work with either, and what they do have is colored by those cultures that wrote about them (the Celts had no written language of their own).  Still, Celtic Recons have managed to fill in the gaps.  This should be at least as workable, unless I'm badly misunderstanding what's currently known about pre-Islamic cultures.

Knowing almost nothing about it, I'd be interested in learning more about source materials.

Brina

Abduzza

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 03:19:31 pm »
Quote from: Shine;60226
Interesting! Thanks for answering my questions. If you don't mind, I've got some more things I'm curious about.

1. Exactly what aspects of Arabic paganism do you want to bring back? I'm confused since it doesn't seem like there's a lot of set practices to bring back to light. Worship and prayer, I can see, but I'm lost on what else you plan on doing.

2. Since you're not a recon, does this mean you're going to do something along the lines of an Arabic-flavored Wicca (note: I don't use the term in a disparaging way)?

3. What texts, ancient or modern, have you found most valuable during your attempts to construct and follow this path?

1. Mostly the spontaneous system of worship and the high emphasis on honor that was placed by the Arabs on their religion. The Gods weren't there to necessarily grovel at but would help give strength to the individual to accomplish a task or get over a hurt etc. Although modern Paganism has moved away from this idea of the gods as perfectly transcendent, I really want to emphasize the imminence of the Gods in a very personal manner.

2. I respect Wicca and it's use of various pantheons so I don't take that in a disparaging manner :). The reason I don't consider myself a recon is that the society that this system of worship developed in was brutal and, in my opinion, very immoral. Their ironic veneration of Goddesses with their disdain for women is a good example of this. I'm also a soft polytheist with a pretty rationalistic bent so for me the hard polytheism of the Arabs is just a little too much for me to personally believe. In order to be honest and consistent I fell that I have to put on myself the Neo-pagan label.

3. Surprisingly the Qur'an and "The Book of Idols" by Al-Kalbi. Both contain quite a bit of information on pre-islamic Arabia and Al-Kalbi, while clearly biased, does present the various Gods and Goddesses of the peninsula  in a pretty objective light. Islam itself is also important because, and I don't mean to offend any Muslims on the board, but the five pillars themselves are remnants of Arabic Paganism. From the Shahada (a form of oath) salaat (the worship of Al-Lat who was associated with the sun) the month of Ramadan (the holy month when all raiding stopped amongst the bedouin) zakat (the poor tax in Islam was also a offering the Al-Uzza) and Hajj (journey to the house of the Gods for worship) we can reconstruct a lot of what ancient Arabic religion was like.
 
Quote
Celtic Recons have little to work with either, and what they do have is colored by those cultures that wrote about them (the Celts had no written language of their own). Still, Celtic Recons have managed to fill in the gaps. This should be at least as workable, unless I'm badly misunderstanding what's currently known about pre-Islamic cultures.

Knowing almost nothing about it, I'd be interested in learning more about source materials.

Brina

Pre-Islamic culture is actually pretty well attested to. The Romans had contact with Yemen which they called Arabia Felix and even tried to conquer them in 26 BC but were defeated. The Arabs had an oral culture so even though they spoke three languages (Syriac, Aramaic, Coptic) for most of their history they rarely wrote things down. So what we have written mostly comes from ancient palaces and temples and what later Muslim scribes wrote about Arab history pre-Islam.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 03:20:32 pm by Abduzza »

Utusitusi

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 08:40:42 am »
Quote from: Abduzza;60336
1. .

Can you tell us some basics about those three principal Goddesses?

Are you putting together a site/blog/book/PDF file/whatever with the information that you've gathered?

How did you come to follow this path?

Abduzza

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 05:07:55 pm »
Quote
Can you tell us some basics about those three principal Goddesses?


The three principal Goddesses that were worshiped in Arabia, and in Iraq, are name Al-Lat, Al Uzza, and Manat.

Al Lat, whose name literally means the Goddess, was a goddess of things such as the harvest, fertility, and love and was associated with the sun.

Al Uzza, the Mighty One, was the Goddess of Honor, Justice, War, and Passion. She was associated withe the stars at night.

And Manat was the Goddess of Fate, death, and the afterlife. She was associated with the moon.

This is obviously only surface level but I think that it will do for now :P

Quote
Are you putting together a site/blog/book/PDF file/whatever with the information that you've gathered?


Hopefully. Life likes to get in the way of writing a blog or something.

Quote
How did you come to follow this path?


A long road through many religions and worldviews until something just clicked and the rituals and prayers started causing things to happen, which is always good. ;)

Marukai

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 10:56:02 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;60102
Since I'm still hammering out the specifics of following an Arabic Pagan path, I'd like to invite any questions that you guys may have about it. Not only will you get some information but it will greatly help me elucidate my own beliefs.

So, go for it. No question will go unanswered! :)


What is Sahir or Sihir?

I keep Djinn and came across an odd item on eBay... Maybe you can tell me about this item?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerful-TRADITIONAL-RITUAL-TOOL-Rare-DJINN-GENIE-Summoning-Offering-INCENSE-/130770847868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e728cc87c
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 10:59:42 pm by Marukai »

Marukai

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 11:26:10 pm »
Quote from: Abduzza;60102
Since I'm still hammering out the specifics of following an Arabic Pagan path, I'd like to invite any questions that you guys may have about it. Not only will you get some information but it will greatly help me elucidate my own beliefs.

So, go for it. No question will go unanswered! :)

 
Another question.... The Arabic Language... Was there an Ancient Arabic like there was Ancient Greek and Ancient Hebrew?

My friend from Syria met a student when I was in college that was from Sudan. My Syrian friend couldn't understand Sudanese Arabic. She told me that all of the Arab countries have a dialect of Arabic. This seems similar to S America, the Spanish is different in each country. Which Arabic dialect is the most common?

Abduzza

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2012, 12:51:36 am »
Quote from: Marukai;86525
Another question.... The Arabic Language... Was there an Ancient Arabic like there was Ancient Greek and Ancient Hebrew?

 
Like any language, it changes based on the influences from it's surroundings. Arabic in AFrica is quite different from Arabian Arabic etc.

Arabic is essentially a blend of Aramaic, Syriac and other Near Eastern languages. Modern Arabic though is very close to what is called classical Arabic, or the Arabic that was used to recite and record the Quran.

Quote
What is Sahir or Sihir?


I don't know what you mean. Sahir is Arabic for friend but maybe if you could give me some context I could help.

Quote
I keep Djinn and came across an odd item on eBay... Maybe you can tell me about this item?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powerful-TRA...item1e728cc87c


It's used for binding Jinn to an object or person. In my experience, these things tend to backfire as the Jinn can be extremely powerful. I would advise against contacting the Jinn using such aggressive methods.

Marukai

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2012, 02:41:22 am »
Quote from: Abduzza;86648
Like any language, it changes based on the influences from it's surroundings. Arabic in AFrica is quite different from Arabian Arabic etc.

Arabic is essentially a blend of Aramaic, Syriac and other Near Eastern languages. Modern Arabic though is very close to what is called classical Arabic, or the Arabic that was used to recite and record the Quran.



I don't know what you mean. Sahir is Arabic for friend but maybe if you could give me some context I could help.



It's used for binding Jinn to an object or person. In my experience, these things tend to backfire as the Jinn can be extremely powerful. I would advise against contacting the Jinn using such aggressive methods.

 
What is this video. It sounds beautiful. I can only hear the recognize Jinn in the video

[video=youtube;0-Qy6AIOTWQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Qy6AIOTWQ[/video]

Abduzza

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Re: Arabic Paganism: Questions? I have answers
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2012, 10:31:35 am »
Quote from: Marukai;86651
What is this video. It sounds beautiful. I can only hear the recognize Jinn in the video


It's called a Ruqya. They are verses from the Quran and dua (supplication) to Allah for protection against evil Jinn and black magic.

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