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Author Topic: White Nationalists and Heathenry  (Read 45952 times)

SunflowerP

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 09:00:10 am »
Quote from: Maps;50185
Careful with that: many POC disagree with the dictionary definition of racism.

 
That link isn't the clearest description of it, but yes, that point needed bringing up.

To clarify a bit:  in social justice activism, the word "racism" is used to refer to the social and cultural structures that create/reinforce racial discrimination, rather than to personal feelings of bigotry.  Since the structures of Western culture reinforce discrimination against PoC, and privilege white people, it's meaningless to talk about black people's "racism" against white people (or about "reverse racism"), though it's possible for a black person to be bigoted against white people (or to have internalized racism against black people).

Or to be racist against PoC who aren't black, which seems to me to be a much more significant problem with Kemetic Afrocentrism - it erases the actual ancient Egyptians (and their modern descendants), who were/are neither black nor white.  (Nor would that have been a meaningful distinction in AE; black/white is a modern sociocultural construct.)

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caelestisraven

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 05:52:45 pm »
Quote from: HeartShadow;50231
yeah.  "hooray, I burn if I walk too slowly past an open window and my ancestors managed to completely avoid melanin!  OooOOoooOOO"

..... yeah.  honestly, I'd've preferred a little more melanin and a bit more height, instead of coming from the tribe of the pale-face hobbits.  But y'know, gotta celebrate that sunburn-ability!  *snorts*

 
lmao. you almost had me spitting water all over my keyboard reading that :)
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Nature

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 01:42:05 am »
Quote from: Juniperberry;50186
The color of your skin is NOT an accomplishment, what's there to be proud of??? Be proud of your ancestral history and their cultural achievements,  but don't act like skin had anything to do with that. Celebrate the story of people, and how someone in your family helped add some good to it, but don't act like being white is the neat trick and good deed. Gah. *rolls eyes*

 
I visited Red Pride, Brown Pride and White Pride websites out of curiosity a few years ago.  I got the impression that most of them would agree with those of you who say skin color is of little consequence.  I mean if it mattered then you would see White Pride people avoiding sun tans which would be ridiculous.

Skin color is kind of like the emblem on a Toyota.  The emblem is cheap plastic and really worthless.  But if it is on a Toyota car, the emblem can tell you it's a well made car.

Skin is sort of like an emblem. The emblem sometimes (not always) can tell you a bit about the colorful history of the ancestry behind the person who wears it.  It is up to the person viewing the skin color as to how to interpret, view, judge, not judge, that skin color.

Skin color and bone structure per se isn't important in itself.

Ask-Embla

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2012, 04:03:42 am »
Quote from: Nature;50123
I don't mind if someone is proud that he is a pure blooded White man.  Or if he's proud he's a Mexican.  We all have something to be proud of in our ancestors.

I respect someone more who is proud of ancestry and heritage than someone who is not.

So yeah, I have nothing against proud White people.

 
No no no. Okay, instead of explaining how I think that people are asshats and why, and ignoring the obviously racist, I'll just share my opinion on how I think the world should be run.

Today's society is mixed. We all know lots of people from lots of different backgrounds and ethnicities. That seems like no big deal, but way back when, it wasn't so weird to be born and die without ever seeing someone who wasn't your skin color. But when these people started mixing, DRAMA. And by "drama," I mean really terrible violence, abuse, and oppression. In western society, this is mostly dominated by the whites shoving down people of other colors, primarily blacks. In another universe, maybe it went another way. But it didn't. (It bears mentioning that back then this kind of mindless prejudice was shown not only towards race, but gender and nationality. In today's western society, at least in the US, gender and race are still huge glaring issues, while nationalism is less-so, because everyone is so mixed. It's shrug worthy.)

So what do we do today? We want these social stigmas gone, but unfortunately a lot of our modern society was built on the backs of these cruel fundamentals, and as much as we want to wish them away, ignoring them just breeds more racism. (http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/02/how-to-raise-racist-kids/) Then there are the TOTAL asshats (I knew I said I wouldn't mention them, but...) who pretend there was never an issue at all, and there sure as hell isn't one now. To them I say, um, excuse me bitch, in my grandfather's lifetime, black citizens of the united states weren't allowed to vote. Don't tell me that's not a problem, and don't you dare tell me that we've actually fixed things since then. Puh-lease.

So what DO we do? Well, if you're white, it means doing the best thing you can, recognizing the above. ACTIVELY remind yourself of what has been done in the past, what your society is built on, what presences are in your society today, and what race really means. It means recognizing that people will treat you differently if you are white versus if you are black. It means realizing that there is social stigma giving you a leg up if you are white, and a shove down if you are black, all while the general public pretends that the problem was solved in the 60s.

Being white, and not being racist, means "checking your privilege." It means recognizing what you have, and how you got there, and how bullshit that is. So if you are white, you can be proud, you can be ashamed, whatever. It's no one's but you and your therapists business, but you had better sure as hell be recognizing that race problems are RELEVANT in every day society, and because of knee-jerk reactions hundreds of years ago, you're pretty much a shit person unless you're lending a hand to clean up this mess.

So if you're a white person, don't throw a fucking parade. Just don't. Maybe you're happy your ancestors came from Norway or some shit, but do you know what that parade says to the world? It says "Ha ha ha, we're given better opportunities in society. Watch us gloat." So don't go celebrating your whiteness. Celebrate your Norwegian heritage. That's something to be proud of, not your skin color.
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RandallS

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2012, 07:54:02 am »
Quote from: Ask-Embla;60264
Today's society is mixed. We all know lots of people from lots of different backgrounds and ethnicities. That seems like no big deal, but way back when, it wasn't so weird to be born and die without ever seeing someone who wasn't your skin color. But when these people started mixing, DRAMA. And by "drama," I mean really terrible violence, abuse, and oppression.

On the other hand, skin color wasn't very important in some ancient societies -- even some western Mediterranean societies. There was discrimination in most, but it does not appear to have been based on skin color.
Randall
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Ask-Embla

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 03:27:38 pm »
Quote from: RandallS;60288
On the other hand, skin color wasn't very important in some ancient societies -- even some western Mediterranean societies. There was discrimination in most, but it does not appear to have been based on skin color.

 
True. Even more recent than ancient societies, I read this great book about the Irish and how before immigration to the US, discrimination by skin color was unheard of, and all was based on nationality and class. This led a lot of early Irish immigrants to take emphatically to racism (that is of course a complete generalization), as being classified as "white" was a new, unheard of source of social power.  I was over-simplifying. Still, once races began mixing, oppression was nigh...
Be kind to little animals / whatever sort they be / and give a stranded jellyfish / a shove into the sea.

btb

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2012, 11:18:35 pm »
Quote from: Septima;49691
There seems to be a real interest in Heathenry and the Norse gods among White Nationalists and Pro-White individuals. I should mention that I am not taking about your typical trailer trash Skinhead Nazitru people either, rather your clean cut, respectable person who has White Nationalist views but is not a Nazi.

What attracts these people to Heathenry and what are your opinions on them in general?

I find it kind of strange how in Kemetic Reconstructionism, Black Afrocentric racists are often tolerated or even embraced by members of their community.

 I should mention that I am not taking about your typical trailer trash Skinhead Nazitru people either, rather your clean cut, respectable person who has White Nationalist views but is not a Nazi.


trailer trash .....or....
clean cut, respectable person

:confused:
Not that Belladonna Took had any adventures after she became Mrs. Bungo Baggins.


wadjet

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2012, 03:42:23 am »
Quote from: btb;70289
I should mention that I am not taking about your typical trailer trash Skinhead Nazitru people either, rather your clean cut, respectable person who has White Nationalist views but is not a Nazi.


trailer trash .....or....
clean cut, respectable person

:confused:

 
I laughed.


White Nationalists are interested in Asatru because they are looking for something that validates their racism. Boom.

RandallS

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2012, 08:22:53 am »
Quote from: wadjet;70315
White Nationalists are interested in Asatru because they are looking for something that validates their racism. Boom.

Pretty much. Anything racists can interpret as validating their racist beliefs, they use. Christian racists are known for cherry-picking verses from the Bible that they can use to validate their racism.
Randall
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btb

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2012, 08:13:30 pm »
Quote from: wadjet;70315
I laughed.


White Nationalists are interested in Asatru because they are looking for something that validates their racism. Boom.

yeah, what you said.
But , why cant i be proud of my freckles. im not dissing anyone who doesnt have em. and it wasnt an "action" theyre just, Beautiful!!
and how lucky i am to have em. they go well with my "pale hobbit face";). what a beautiful contrast my nigerian lover and i make in the hour of the kindling of candles.

 hmmmm
im still stumped.
back to the original posts inquiry, comment,  

whats the opposition of "typical trailer trash" to  "clean cut respectable." what are those things?  why is one presupposed better than the other.

to me THAT phrase seems to be a rock solid fundamental  example  that  the problem of all isms embodies..  

ok, im laughing because im not smart enough to  delve as you guys can. so i am probably way out of my league in evaluating, to such depth, this issue     but .....really.....
"typical trailer trash" vs.  "clean cut respectable."
 
 
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 08:17:44 pm by btb »
Not that Belladonna Took had any adventures after she became Mrs. Bungo Baggins.


SunflowerP

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2012, 09:09:16 pm »
Quote from: btb;70419
whats the opposition of "typical trailer trash" to  "clean cut respectable." what are those things?  why is one presupposed better than the other.

to me THAT phrase seems to be a rock solid fundamental  example  that  the problem of all isms embodies..  

ok, im laughing because im not smart enough to  delve as you guys can. so i am probably way out of my league in evaluating, to such depth, this issue     but .....really.....
"typical trailer trash" vs.  "clean cut respectable."

 
You're not wrong.  That bit kind of got lost in the other stuff people were taking issue with, so it didn't get addressed, but it's definitely problematic - major classism there.

I don't give a damn how clean-cut they are, if they have White Nationalist views, they're not respectable, they're racist asshats.  And I'd suggest that the main way in which they're "not Nazis" is that they're carefully avoiding a negatively-loaded label.  But if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's a duck.  (Or maybe that should be, if it marches like a goose, it's a goose?)  And none of that has sweet fuck all to do with whether they are low-income/low social class mobile home dwellers, or upper middle class suburbanites.

Sunflower
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RandallS

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2012, 10:25:55 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;70423
I don't give a damn how clean-cut they are, if they have White Nationalist views, they're not respectable, they're racist asshats.  And I'd suggest that the main way in which they're "not Nazis" is that they're carefully avoiding a negatively-loaded label.  But if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's a duck.  (Or maybe that should be, if it marches like a goose, it's a goose?)

For the record, it is quite possible to be a white supremacist/white nationalist and not be a Nazi. Not every racist bigot is a fascist, let alone a fascist of the Nazi variety.
Randall
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ferretowner96

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White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2012, 10:34:12 pm »
Quote from: Septima;49691
There seems to be a real interest in Heathenry and the Norse gods among White Nationalists and Pro-White individuals. I should mention that I am not taking about your typical trailer trash Skinhead Nazitru people either, rather your clean cut, respectable person who has White Nationalist views but is not a Nazi.

What attracts these people to Heathenry and what are your opinions on them in general?

I find it kind of strange how in Kemetic Reconstructionism, Black Afrocentric racists are often tolerated or even embraced by members of their community.

I have many friends who are White Nationalists. A lot of them talk about Norse Gods (many wear Thors Hammer and such). It is a sign of stregnth and ancestry as many come from Aryan blood and have traced their families religion and most usually turn out to be Pagans of some sort. For them it is a heritage, but manys WNs are Christians, and Atheists but for the most part it has to do with heritage.

WNs have always been kind respective people to me. Many people have friends who are Democrats, Republicans, gays, straights and so on so please do noy get on my case about having WNs as friends. They do have strong talking points and are not at all what most believe. There are some who are radicals, but you have that in any religion or political party. None of the ones I have met have been hateful "Nazis", nor are they ignorant idiots. They have strong talking points and know a lot about what they are talking about. They arent the cross-burning white hooded people assume they are. They are super nice people preserving their heritage.
Rick

ferretowner96

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White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2012, 10:38:55 pm »
Quote from: SunflowerP;70423
You're not wrong.  That bit kind of got lost in the other stuff people were taking issue with, so it didn't get addressed, but it's definitely problematic - major classism there.

I don't give a damn how clean-cut they are, if they have White Nationalist views, they're not respectable, they're racist asshats.  And I'd suggest that the main way in which they're "not Nazis" is that they're carefully avoiding a negatively-loaded label.  But if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's a duck.  (Or maybe that should be, if it marches like a goose, it's a goose?)  And none of that has sweet fuck all to do with whether they are low-income/low social class mobile home dwellers, or upper middle class suburbanites.

Sunflower

I hope I am not out of place saying this but have you actually ever met a White Nationalist? They are some of the kindest most family oriented people I have met. They are hard workers and dear friends. They have their opinions as do I and I am sure you do too but we are all entitled to our opinions. Let them demonstrate. While you may not agree with it there is no need to be calling them "unrespectable asshats".

Sage

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Re: White Nationalists and Heathenry
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2012, 10:54:50 pm »
Quote from: ferretowner96;70437
They are super nice people preserving their heritage.
Rick

 
I'm gonna grab the popcorn and have a really fun time watching how this thread plays out.
Maker, though the darkness comes upon me,
I shall embrace the light. I shall weather the storm.
I shall endure.
What you have created, no one can tear asunder.

-Canticle of Trials 1:10

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